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Fixed Cross
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 7:37 am

Pezer wrote:
Anyway, I'm an optimist. This emptyness in the realms of Gods is fértiles.

Meaning since yesterday to quote your excellent phrase pinecone right back to you, in reference to the realm of the nordic gods I was invited into.

But I d believe that it is possible that only these gods have a voluptuous immediate future.
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 7:38 am

Gotta watch Moloch. Ill get back to you on it.
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 7:45 am

One of the most important powers for a god is the power to inspire fear. Very obviously.
Most gods have lost this capacity in the modern age. People may fear the madness of their followers, the gods themselves aren't feared or respected outside of their own congregation.

But ask anyone about Odin and they'll not unlikely respond alike my deeply secular Asian-American friend; "he seems to be a god I don't want as an enemy".
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 7:53 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
Pezer wrote:
Sure.

To be fair though, it was China that pushed Trump's hand. They're been busy. On a lot of fronts.

The US just needed a reason other than helpless fear to do something about it.

Sure it didn't come out of nothing. But an actual extra branch of the army, "equal but different" to the airforce, I don't think anyone saw that coming. Should be enormous fun.

Quote :
It's funny how many influencial people are turning out to be for a politics of fear. Good to know who never to trust again.

I guess they felt their money and status would insulate them from any eventual shift of power. In the back of their minds like. The facade became more important than the problems.

Its unbelievable how utterly miserable these people must be. Just unimaginable, literally. And thankfully.
This farce now with the border children - just when you thought the most pathetic phase was over. Well maybe you didn't, maybe I did, maybe I was hoping. Maybe I wasn't. Maybe Im just surprised every time.

Now a poll suggests that the majority of liberals want the US to become a refugee camp.


It is...utter and absolute madness. That people fall for these things.

I tried to reason this through with someone who was upset about the issue of "kids getting pulled away from their parents because of Trump", I mean, just... I actually feel a weird part of myself shutting down inside at just the thought of trying to reason these things with people who believe fake news.

And yes these leftists really do want to turn the US into one massive third world refugee camp. It is because they hate themselves and their "privilege" and this guilt and bad-feeling-toward-self is what pathologically drives them. Because of this, misplaced sympathy is able to get a strong hold and they just use that as the salient marker of personality on these issues.

If these sort of leftists ever win significant power, ....it will be war. Because the rest of us will never go along with this fucking bullshit.
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 7:56 am

The sympathy itself is good, but these leftists do not even realize how they are allowing their own sympathy to be manipulated and abused, which will only end up destroying that very sympathy itself, along with the entire world and anyone they ever cared for.
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 8:03 am

That public men publish falsehoods
Is nothing new. That America must accept
Like the historical republics corruption and empire
Has been known for years.

Be angry at the sun for setting
If these things anger you. Watch the wheel slope, and
     turn,
They are all bound on the wheel, these people, those
     warriors,
This republic, Europe, Asia.

Observe them gesticulating,
Observe them going down. The gang serves lies, the
     passionate
Man plays his part; the cold passion for truth
Hunts in no pack.

You are not Catullus, you know,
To lampoon these crude sketches of Caesar. You are far
From Dante's feet, but even farther from his dirty
Political hatreds.

Let boys want pleasure, and men
Struggle for power, and women perhaps for fame,
And the servile to serve a Leader and the dupes to be
     duped.
Yours is not theirs.


-Robinson Jeffers
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 8:06 am

I don't believe for a second that the sympathy is real though. That's the deepest problem, that the very idea of empathy is hijacked by utter psychopaths, who actually objected to kids being saved from ovens. Literally objected to it because it was Trump who saved them.

Death to them all man.

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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 8:10 am

Shine, Republic


The quality of these trees, green height; of the sky,
      shining, of water, a clear flow; of the rock, hardness
And reticence: each is noble in its quality. The love of
      freedom has been the quality of Western man.

There is a stubborn torch that flames from Marathon to
      Concord, its dangerous beauty binding three ages
Into one time; the waves of barbarism and civilization
      eclipsed but have never quenched it.

For the Greeks the love of beauty, for Rome of ruling;
      for the present age the passionate love of discovery;
But in one noble passion we are one; and Washington,
      Luther, Tacitus, Aeschylus, one kind of man.

And you, America, that passion made you. You were
      not born to prosperity, you were born to love free-
      dom.
You did not say "en masse," you said "independence."
      But we cannot have all the luxuries and freedom
      also.

Freedom is poor and laborious; that torch is not safe but
      hungry, and often requires blood for its fuel.
You will tame it against it burn too clearly, you will hood
      it like a kept hawk, you will perch it on the wrist of
      Caesar.

But keep the tradition, conserve the forms, the ob-
      servances, keep the spot sore. Be great, carve deep
      your heel-marks.

The states of the next age will no doubt remember you,
      and edge their love of freedom with contempt of
      luxury.


-Robinson Jeffers


Last edited by Thrasymachus on Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 8:14 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
I don't believe for a second that the sympathy is real though. That's the deepest problem, that the very idea of empathy is hijacked by utter psychopaths, who actually objected to kids being saved from ovens. Literally objected to it because it was Trump who saved them.

Death to them all man.


The sympathy is real in so far as the caring for the children and the emotions of anger and worry and fear and sadness for them are real. At least for some of these leftists, certainly not all. But for the decent ones it is like these instincts, maternal instincts in this case, these emotions are hijacked, misplaced and manipulated by false circumstances, fake news, propaganda.

The people I have talked to on the left actually do care about children. Some of them anyway. Maybe your experiences are different from mine, and every leftist you have ever known has not actually cared. But in my experience it is somewhat split; the best leftists are just normal people who have become confused and soul-hijacked by propaganda, and the best thing they can do is unplug somehow from the matrix, if only a little at first. And obviously the worst of the leftists indeed deserve death, for they care about literally nothing at all, not even themselves.
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 8:34 am

Thrasymachus wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
I don't believe for a second that the sympathy is real though. That's the deepest problem, that the very idea of empathy is hijacked by utter psychopaths, who actually objected to kids being saved from ovens. Literally objected to it because it was Trump who saved them.

Death to them all man.


The sympathy is real in so far as the caring for the children and the emotions of anger and worry and fear and sadness for them are real. At least for some of these leftists, certainly not all. But for the decent ones it is like these instincts, maternal instincts in this case, these emotions are hijacked, misplaced and manipulated by false circumstances, fake news, propaganda.

I absolutely do not believe that any of these emotions are real. If these people were capable of real emotions they'd have suffered at what was happening before Trump took office, so infinitely more painful than kids being separated from their parents, and so much more massive in scale. All this is pure narcissism.

Quote :
The people I have talked to on the left actually do care about children. Some of them anyway. Maybe your experiences are different from mine, and every leftist you have ever known has not actually cared. But in my experience it is somewhat split; the best leftists are just normal people who have become confused and soul-hijacked by propaganda, and the best thing they can do is unplug somehow from the matrix, if only a little at first. And obviously the worst of the leftists indeed deserve death, for they care about literally nothing at all, not even themselves.

The best leftists have seen the errors of their ways and are happy with every bit Trump does to take away grotesque suffering where he can. Anyone who is still able to convince himself that Trump is the real problem, is a psychopath. Im convinced of that.

How can I possibly believe that these people that still object to Trump after he cleaned up Isis, care for children? No, no way thats possible.
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 8:38 am

I can imagine an emotional mechanism where suffering becomes noticeable if it is inflicted by your enemy, and invisible when you inflict it. I assume all leftists are defined by this mechanism. Every fly on a corpse of one of their victims is more human than they are, no matter how expertly they pretend to have feelings.
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 8:41 am

Dark.

There is one army which never goes dark. Perhaps the most abused one. Perhaps the one who... Well, good.

These I seek to do business with.
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 8:55 am

Realize this is also just my emotions that have been tested for two decades by those that held the power, the leftists. I was aware of the torture constantly going on which they all denied, I was powerless to deal with this, in my psychic nature I experienced a lot of the torture at night and by day was accused of being a madman and a fascist by people close to me, who were claiming to have the same sort of emotions that leftists now make claims to. I remember all too well how they let it all happen and defended it all, how relentless the inhumanity of these decent humans is, how absolutely merciless they are when it comes to real pain. Im exhausted in this regard, my capacity to suspend disbelief with regard to narcissists is depleted.

Yes, this is dark as hell. I would like for these people to have hearts, for me to be wrong about this.
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 9:06 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
I don't believe for a second that the sympathy is real though. That's the deepest problem, that the very idea of empathy is hijacked by utter psychopaths, who actually objected to kids being saved from ovens. Literally objected to it because it was Trump who saved them.

Death to them all man.


The sympathy is real in so far as the caring for the children and the emotions of anger and worry and fear and sadness for them are real. At least for some of these leftists, certainly not all. But for the decent ones it is like these instincts, maternal instincts in this case, these emotions are hijacked, misplaced and manipulated by false circumstances, fake news, propaganda.

I absolutely do not believe that any of these emotions are real. If these people were capable of real emotions they'd have suffered at what was happening before Trump took office, so infinitely more painful than kids being separated from their parents, and so much more massive in scale. All this is pure narcissism.

Quote :
The people I have talked to on the left actually do care about children. Some of them anyway. Maybe your experiences are different from mine, and every leftist you have ever known has not actually cared. But in my experience it is somewhat split; the best leftists are just normal people who have become confused and soul-hijacked by propaganda, and the best thing they can do is unplug somehow from the matrix, if only a little at first. And obviously the worst of the leftists indeed deserve death, for they care about literally nothing at all, not even themselves.

The best leftists have seen the errors of their ways and are happy with every bit Trump does to take away grotesque suffering where he can. Anyone who is still able to convince himself that Trump is the real problem, is a psychopath. Im convinced of that.

How can I possibly believe that these people that still object to Trump after he cleaned up Isis, care for children? No, no way thats possible.

It is possible to have real emotional responses to controlled perceptions. For example, the propaganda manipulates what people will see and hear about, this is why before this "crisis" at the border these leftists did not feel emotional responses to the problems of children and others trying to cross the border. These problems have existed long before Trump, it is simply that these leftists were not made aware of them, because the media covered it over to cover Obama's ass.

It is obviously not possible to have an emotional response to something you do not know exists.

Now that the media is revealing some of the existence of these problems, as well as hyping it up and changing the narrative somewhat, creating an image of a real crisis of danger for children and of their separation from their parents, obviously this is being received as a new perception by the leftists, they are experiencing this as a new issue and problem and are feeling associated feelings of sympathy, worry, anger, etc.

Those emotions are real for these people, at least for some of the ones I have talked to. But the problem is that the underlying issue is fake, set up propaganda, and the leftists cognitively do not understand this.

I do not understand how you can say these emotions are not real, simply because the media has hidden these issues for so long and is now hyping and pushing them. To the leftist person, this is suddenly a problem that is caused by Trump; the leftist believes this because the leftist is a victim of fake news propaganda, of lies. The leftist is simply not smart enough or "red pilled" enough to see through the facade, but I know for a fact that the emotional responses are indeed authentic. In some cases anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 9:07 am

I just don't believe that people that for years defended and/or ignored infernal suffering and risks of total annihilation are really capable of true empathy. I do believe that these people now use their limbic system as a kind of drug, where absent real empathy, a lack they may actually offer of, they now get their fix of empathic feelings for "victims of Trump" - but  given the suffering that transpired under their still beloved leaders I must conclude that they can only tolerate sadness if it is serves some perverse moralistic self-satisfaction.
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 9:14 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
I just don't believe that people that for years defended and/or ignored infernal suffering and risks of total annihilation are really capable of true empathy. I do believe that these people now use their limbic system as a kind of drug, where absent real empathy, a lack they may actually offer of, they now get their fix of empathic feelings for "victims of Trump" - but  given the suffering that transpired under their still beloved leaders  I must conclude that they can only tolerate sadness if it is serves some perverse function of self-satisfaction.

I think it is because it is simply impossible to pay attention to and feel all of the suffering in the world. We cannot do it, neither can sheltered leftists.

It would be unrealistic to expect anyone to have emotional responses to all the suffering in the world, our emotions are simply not large enough for that; and this also goes with VO, that we can only respond to and feel for something that we are able to personally value, that enters our own values-sphere. So for these leftists, these issues have not previously entered their values-sphere because the media has deliberately prevented that from occurring. Now that the media has started pushing these issues because the media wants to destroy Trump, suddenly the leftists are seeing things they never personally experienced or knew about before.

You cannot blame people for not knowing every instance of suffering in the world, not even we are that super-aware. Not even we should be blamed for feeling an emotional response to something we just learned about, even if it had been going on all the time and we were unaware or too distracted or focused elsewhere to notice.

I agree these leftists are having their emotions manipulated by the media. The media is basically turning their limbic systems into drug factories as you said. But the fakeness and manipulation is occurring at the cognitive and perceptive level, while the emotions themselves are actually authentic. I know because I have talked to one of these people who was so upset for these kids she was actually crying, and not weird hysterical tears just normal human tears of deep sadness at the thought of children being pulled from their parents and never seeing them again.

Our emotions respond to ideas. Sometimes those ideas correspond to real events in reality, other times those ideas correspond to our own fictions and fantasies, such as in the case with fake news propaganda. I feel bad for these leftists who are victims of this propaganda, who are having their emotions manipulated like this. I blame these leftists for not red pilling and educating themselves when they come up against an issue or fact that provides the cognitive dissonance sufficient to allow for that to occur, yet they push that moment away; however, I do not blame them for their emotions. But certainly many leftists, the extreme SJW ones for example, are truly psychotic insane and are not operating on anything like normal human emotions.

It is just the difference between radical leftist revolutionaries and moderately left normal people duped by fake news.


Last edited by Thrasymachus on Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 9:15 am

To me these are lies. Ive talked to enough leftist to know that they were well aware of the suffering under isis, for example, but just shrugged and figured it wasn't their or their country's problem. None of these people seemed happy when Isis was decimated, so what does that make them?

In nazi Germany, after the war, the catch phrase was "wir haven es nicht gewusst!", regarding the camps. "We didn't know!"
Yeah, yeah. If they went through so much trouble to remain ignorant, or to be able to pretend ignorance to themselves, they're exactly what evil is made of.
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 9:18 am

Thrasymachus wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
I just don't believe that people that for years defended and/or ignored infernal suffering and risks of total annihilation are really capable of true empathy. I do believe that these people now use their limbic system as a kind of drug, where absent real empathy, a lack they may actually offer of, they now get their fix of empathic feelings for "victims of Trump" - but  given the suffering that transpired under their still beloved leaders  I must conclude that they can only tolerate sadness if it is serves some perverse function of self-satisfaction.

I think it is because it is simply impossible to pay attention to and feel all of the suffering in the world. We cannot do it, neither can sheltered leftists.

It would be unrealistic to expect anyone to have emotional responses to all the suffering in the world, our emotions are simply not large enough for that; and this also goes with VO, that we can only respond to and feel for something that we are able to personally value, that enters our own values-sphere. So for these leftists, these issues have not previously entered their values-sphere because the media has deliberately prevented that from occurring. Now that the media has started pushing these issues because the media wants to destroy Trump, suddenly the leftists are seeing things they never personally experienced or knew about before.

You cannot blame people for not knowing every instance of suffering in the world, not even we are that super-aware. Not even we should be blamed for feeling an emotional response to something we just learned about, even if it had been going on all the time and we were unaware or too distracted or focused elsewhere to notice.

I agree these leftists are having their emotions manipulated by the media. The media is basically turning their limbic systems into drug factories as you said. But the fakeness and manipulation is occurring at the cognitive and perceptive level, while the emotions themselves are actually authentic. I know because I have talked to one of these people who was so upset for these kids she was actually crying, and not weird hysterical tears just normal human tears of deep sadness at the thought of children being pulled from their parents and never seeing them again.

Our emotions respond to ideas. Sometimes those ideas correspond to real events in reality, other times those ideas correspond to our own fictions and fantasies, such as in the case with fake news propaganda. I feel bad for these leftists who are victims of this propaganda, who are having their emotions manipulated like this. I blame these leftists for not red pilling and educating themselves when they come up against an issue or fact that provides the cognitive dissonance sufficient to allow for that to occur, yet they push that moment away; however, I do not blame them for their emotions. But certainly many leftists, the extreme SJW ones for example, are truly psychotic insane and are not operating on anything like normal human emotions.

It is just the difference between radical leftist revolutionaries and moderately left normal people duped by fake news.

You and Pezer seem to see or feel more alike here.

Ill admit to a degree of damage, that prevents me from ever feeling anything but the blackest revulsion when it comes to leftists and their supposed empathies.
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 9:24 am

What Ive long felt, since before Trump was elected, is that you are the one of us with the greater capacity to address and reform the left.

Since I thought this, Pezer has acquired some more softness and good will here, too.
Im well aware of my revulsion not being constructive, and of construction being the only sensible path.
So Ill be happy to leave the left to you -

To me, all of it, all of the lefts empathies, they all together form a medieval dungeon of insanity and torture that I don't ever want to go near again.
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 9:27 am

I've just seen first-hand the real difference between the radical SJW revolutionaries and the moderately-left/liberal normal people who are duped by marxist globalist propaganda. I assert that this difference is very real, and we should value it somehow, learn to work with it. Because while those former kind of people cannot be saved, the latter kind certainly can be. I know, because I used to be one of the latter kind.

Red pilling would not exist as a phenomenon if leftism were not able to be overcome. There is still something very real and human in many of those on the political left, even those whipped into mob frenzies against Trump and all the rest of it. This is how I see the separation between propaganda-effects and emotions. The issue is, I think, that if a leftist remains in that state of being manipulated and duped for long enough, his/her emotions do actually start to radicalize and atrophy as you were indicating.

So it is good to identify people who are under the sway of the propaganda death machine early, before it gets to that point, and try to help them out. I mean, again, if this were impossible, if all leftists were the same as you seem to feel, then red pilling would simply not exist.
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 9:28 am

And really, no one on the left is not informed about isis being defeated.
So if their empathy was real, they'd still be thanking Trump even if they'd really think that this border shit is his fault.
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 9:37 am

Thrasymachus wrote:
I've just seen first-hand the real difference between the radical SJW revolutionaries and the moderately-left/liberal normal people who are duped by marxist globalist propaganda. I assert that this difference is very real, and we should value it somehow, learn to work with it. Because while those former kind of people cannot be saved, the latter kind certainly can be. I know, because I used to be one of the latter kind.

Red pilling would not exist as a phenomenon if leftism were not able to be overcome. There is still something very real and human in many of those on the political left, even those whipped into mob frenzies against Trump and all the rest of it. This is how I see the separation between propaganda-effects and emotions. The issue is, I think, that if a leftist remains in that state of being manipulated and duped for long enough, his/her emotions do actually start to radicalize and atrophy as you were indicating.

So it is good to identify people who are under the sway of the propaganda death machine early, before it gets to that point, and try to help them out. I mean, again, if this were impossible, if all leftists were the same as you seem to feel, then red pilling would simply not exist.

I guess you have a point there.
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 9:58 am

Like I say, Im not the guy to address the left. When I talk to them, they tend to panic, one long time friend threatened to cut off her thumbs if Id vote for Wilders years back. She then left me in the cafe, sure to have taught me a good moral lesson.

These aren't fertile discussions.


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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 10:00 am

Damn, yes I am a lot more reticent than you when it comes to confronting them. I treat it as a strategy game, a challenge of tactics and slow skill over time. I want to get inside their value-sphere, and help them break free as they are able. I do not simply challenge them fully right away. But I admit this approach is somewhat manipulative and dishonest on my part, although I am never dishonest and I never lie; if they ask a question about what I think about a certain political issue or person, I tell them. It is just that normally I do not volunteer that information except when filtered through a kind of implicitly red-pilling-skewing lens, a kind of mid-point between truth and their own worldview.

But generally I avoid talking to leftists. It is really not worth the stress.
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PostSubject: Re: Trumpf   Trumpf - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 23, 2018 10:07 am

Thrasymachus wrote:
Damn, yes I am a lot more reticent than you when it comes to confronting them. I treat it as a strategy game, a challenge of tactics and slow skill over time. I want to get inside their value-sphere, and help them break free as they are able. I do not simply challenge them fully right away. But I admit this approach is somewhat manipulative and dishonest on my part, although I am never dishonest and I never lie; if they ask a question about what I think about a certain political issue or person, I tell them. It is just that normally I do not volunteer that information except when filtered through a kind of implicitly red-pilling-skewing lens, a kind of mid-point between truth and their own worldview.

But generally I avoid talking to leftists. It is really not worth the stress.

Im actually not that direct at all, Im very careful as everyone has made it perfectly clear to me that these views, and the ones stating them, are perfectly unwanted. I wasn't volunteering the topic, I was carefully saying in response to her rant and her assumption that Id agree with it, that I didn't think he was such a horrible guy. But every slightest hint of not complying with the Party was punished with exile. People just went around cursing my name to each other for years, until it seemed the whole city was spitting on me.

Only Odin has given me power back. As I returned here, I spent much time carving runes and roaring Odins name through the city at night. Sharp edges. Wolf god, bleeding god - none of that is a joke.
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