'Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day. But when I follow at my pleasure the serried multitude of the stars in their circular course, my feet no longer touch the earth.'
 
HomeCalendarFAQSearchMemberlistRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Your Pitiful Fear

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Pezer
builder
builder
avatar

Posts : 721
Join date : 2011-11-15

PostSubject: Your Pitiful Fear   Mon May 14, 2012 3:12 pm

Isn't it pitiful when someone is afraid to entretain the horrible? Not because of the obstacle this presents to us, but because it shows that, privately, they do not trust themselves to question.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Thrasymachus
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3664
Join date : 2011-11-03
Location : Will to Power

PostSubject: Re: Your Pitiful Fear   Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:44 pm

Pezer wrote:
Isn't it pitiful when someone is afraid to entretain the horrible? Not because of the obstacle this presents to us, but because it shows that, privately, they do not trust themselves to question.

This fear is their instinctive self-protection. Yes it is pitiable that they are so small. There can be no justification for a human, that inheritor of the highest of all possibilities and destinies, to be so utterly small.

You are right to identify a "fear" that is merely a careful resistance to certain obstacles. This resistance is not fear but caution, not anxiety but interest and wise engagement.


"The unexamined life is not worth living," as Socrates said.

 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

Peace. War. Love. Wordz




“Grow a pair, preferably between your eyes.” -Styxhexenhammer666

104 Qdd5#
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
Arcturus Descending
arrow
arrow
avatar

Posts : 293
Join date : 2011-12-07
Location : Hovering amidst a battle of Wills

PostSubject: Re: Your Pitiful Fear   Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:24 pm

Pezer wrote:
Isn't it pitiful when someone is afraid to entretain the horrible? Not because of the obstacle this presents to us, but because it shows that, privately, they do not trust themselves to question.

Gee, Pezer, aren't you being just a bit hard on that poor coward, the human being?Mad I think it's human nature to want to turn our heads away from the horrible. Sure, in part it may also be because one does not want to question or trust what they may find within the horrible. Perhaps it's because we do not see the darkness within ourselves or which we are capable of and it is through that non-seeing that makes it continue on. But I do agree that we must face it but I don't find it so pitiful within a human being...it's part of being human.

Can you honestly tell me that there is nothing horrible or tragic in this life that you wouldn't want to turn away from ......can you tell me that you are so capable of entertaining the possibility of the horror you might bring into this world?

 

___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Arcturus Descending
arrow
arrow
avatar

Posts : 293
Join date : 2011-12-07
Location : Hovering amidst a battle of Wills

PostSubject: Re: Your Pitiful Fear   Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:09 pm

Capable...

Quote :
This fear is their instinctive self-protection. Yes it is pitiable that they are so small. There can be no justification for a human, that inheritor of the highest of all possibilities and destinies, to be so utterly small.
I've come back in here because I decided to edit what I previously wrote. I always want to remember to respond to the words and not to react to them or to the person...which is not an easy thing for us silly humans. And the biblical words of "First see the beam in your own eye...." were called to my mind this weekend. I certainly have those beams, in more ways then one. Mad It is such an easy thing for one to react, for their automatic thought processes to take hold, to take over. But back to what you wrote above....

Is this what you really see? Is this how you really feel?
You used the words here - possibilities and destinies. What thoughts or images do those two words provoke in you? Do they tell you that humans are a finished product, Capable? Compared to the eventual beautiful and giant Oak, isn't the acorn so utterly small too? Weren't you at one time so utterly small as your mother carried you within her?


Yes, this fear is our instinctive self-protection. Would you say that it is abnormal, inhuman - for something which has become so built-in/structured within us through evolution? After all, this is what has helped humanity to survive - albeit we may/can learn to transcend ourselves for the sake of our own human and spiritual growth. But this takes much time and we all grow differently - some of us in leaps and bounds, some of us in a more moderate way and others of us at a snail's pace. Are humans really to be thought of as pitiful and small simply because we all don't 'get it' - simply because some have had more opportunity to grow, have had more nurturing and nourishing than others have? I think that it is a growth process, though it can be quite the struggle and difficult, to be able to see our own humanity, our own weaknesses and darkness, through the humanity of others, even if we don't like what we see. It is still a gift. We are all a reflection of one another, if we take the time to look, and the times when we grow the most is when we don't like what we see but come to accept it and then transform it. And the strange thing then is that we may also see the other person in a new light. Or at the very least, we may see other things which are reflected within that person which we can like. Okay...I'm digressing...

Is it possible, Capable, that your statement that it is pitiable that they are so small - comes from a vision that has not been expanded upon enough to see an entire picture? Call it tunnel vision. There are probably only some rare individuals who are capable of seeing an entire picture, the whole tamale as it were, and even they probably do not see it all. And I would hazard a guess that if they did, they still would not make your statement. How could they or we? We would have to go so far back in time to see that person, the role which cause and effect has played in his/her life. Most of us have not soared to the heights nor to the depths enough to see ourselves as fully as we need to be seen - by ourselves. None of us have actually gotten to that place. though. It is a journey, a process, but if we put on blinders, and become obstacles to our very own selves, and elevate ourselves to such a height and degree, well, we will never get to that place.

There doesn't have to be any justification for our smallness (your word). Most justification is only based on our rationalizations and excuses. But the point is that we are all evolving human beings, incomplete and inperfect. That includes yourself and myself. If we are 'judging' people because of their so-called 'smallness' (our subjective and perhaps erroneous perception) - tell me, Capable, what is our stature in relation to them? We are all growing or not growing at different levels and we are all on different paths. But when we choose to judge others for their 'smallness', the only real effect is to create a barrier for our own growth, to muddy the waters of our own perceptions.

Quote :
You are right to identify a "fear" that is merely a careful resistance to certain obstacles. This resistance is not fear but caution, not anxiety but interest and wise engagement.
Depending on the individual, it might be caution or fear. And being able to even recognize that fear is the first step, is it not? But I will grant you that to take that mightly leap into that darkness and to engage the demons (daemons) and the horror within is important but for those of us who cannot, it doesn't necessarily make us 'small' Capable - as it simply makes us an ongoing process albeit one which is capable of wreaking chaos and destruction. And that is where growing in self-awareness and consciousness comes in.

“It is easier to perceive error than to find truth, for the former lies on the surface and is easily seen, while the latter lies in the depth, where few are willing to search for it.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


Namaste, Capable.

Edited on July 2, 2012

 

___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Parodites
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 753
Join date : 2011-12-11

PostSubject: Re: Your Pitiful Fear   Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:11 am

If there is one benefit I have earned from living in continuous, chronic pain, it is no longer having fear. What my own body does to me on a daily basis is far more terrible than anything that either man or god could do to me. I no longer even fear death. There is nothing I fear, I don't even recall what that sensation is. But also, conversely, because I have no fears I also have no hopes.





"You used the words here - possibilities and destinies. What thoughts or images do those two words provoke in you? Do they tell you that humans are a finished product, Capable? Compared to the eventual beautiful and giant Oak, isn't the acorn so utterly small too? Weren't you at one time so utterly small as your mother carried you within her?"


It is only because the Oak tree has something to work against, a limit imposed upon it it must struggle against, that it becomes so big. Every inch higher into the heavens that it climbs, so must it descend by its roots an inch deeper into the hard earth. And man must throw his roots into deep Tartarus, if he wants to taste heaven that is. There isn't any other way, that is it.



"Is it possible, Capable, that your statement that it is pitiable that they are so small - comes from a vision that has not been expanded upon enough to see an entire picture?"


They live without such a limit, an ideal. They are like Oak trees planted in shallow soil, and cannot grow beyond a very small point because there is no earth for them to descend into.


"Most of us have not soared to the heights nor to the depths enough to see ourselves as fully as we need to be seen - by ourselves. None of us have actually gotten to that place."

How would you know?





"There doesn't have to be any justification for our smallness (your word). Most justification is only based on our rationalizations and excuses. But the point is that we are all evolving human beings, incomplete and inperfect. That includes yourself and myself."

No, it doesn't. Unite the circle of your pains and joys, hatreds and loves, and discern in them the underlying unity, realize and redeem yourself in the totality of your nature. Like I said, the Oak only evolves and grows because there is a limit imposed on it, a finality, a barrier, a terminus, a law. That law we humans are at the liberty to choose and create for ourselves, it is how one becomes a genius and a saint. That law is, as I just said, the philosophized framework in which the disparate moments of a life are united in one total vision and become a genuine universe of meaning.

 

___________
A sik þau trûðu


Nisus ait, "Dine hunc ardorem mentibus addunt,
Euryale, an sua cuique deus fit dira cupido?"

Have the gods set this ruling passion in my heart,
or does each man's furious passion become his god?
- Virgil.


It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must
from time to time be present.-- Antonin Artaud
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
Arcturus Descending
arrow
arrow
avatar

Posts : 293
Join date : 2011-12-07
Location : Hovering amidst a battle of Wills

PostSubject: Re: Your Pitiful Fear   Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:30 am

Quote :
Parodites wrote:

If there is one benefit I have earned from living in continuous, chronic pain, it is no longer having fear.

I am sorry for your pain, Parodites. I cannot imagine how continually living in that way must be for you. By 'continuous', are you saying that you have no respite from pain at all?

For many others, including myself, fear itself is kind of an experience of pain, wouldn't you say, although perhaps more emotional than physical.

Quote :
What my own body does to me on a daily basis is far more terrible than anything that either man or god could do to me. I no longer even fear death.
I think I can understand that intellectually. But look how you have managed to transcend that pain? I wonder how many others would be able to post in forums and write as beautifully as you do?

Quote :
There is nothing I fear, I don't even recall what that sensation is. But also, conversely, because I have no fears I also have no hopes.
Of course, I cannot do your thinking for you and I wouldn't presume to - well, I might try, knowing myself, Twisted Evil but are you sure that having no fears also takes away any kind of hope you might have?

I could just as easily say that this person or that is such a fearful person - and because of that, is incapable of opening up the mind to see possibilities or any hope. Perhaps you just haven't stretched your mind and imagination (although I intuit that you have because of your writings) - to the degree to which you might. I mean, after all, hope encompasseses a great deal, depending on the individual. It's like beauty and meaning which is in the eyes of the beholder. I don't think that it is lack of fear which takes away our hope - for me, it is more a sense of futility and/or a lack of faith in seeing possibilities which does. But I realize that I may be wrong here.


Quote :
Every inch higher into the heavens that it climbs, so must it descend by its roots an inch deeper into the hard earth. And man must throw his roots into deep Tartarus, if he wants to taste heaven that is. There isn't any other way, that is it.
Are those your words? They're beautiful. Either way, they are beautiful.
At the same time, Parodites, does the beautiful giant Oak look down its nose at those other trees surrounding it and judge the ones which shall never extend to its own heights nor reach the depth of its own roots?
Or does it simply observe them and allow their presence? We need to be careful what we see. Doesn't quantum theory tell us that observing an 'object' to be somewhere causes it to be there? Rolling Eyes That must have had some meaning for me to put it in there.

And look at the Weeping Willow - it bows down to the Earth, touches the ground, as beautiful and magnificent as it is?!! We do not even begin to be as magnificent as the willow and yet we bow down to nothing - well perhaps only to the reflection of our selves.


Quote :
They live without such a limit, an ideal. They are like Oak trees planted in shallow soil, and cannot grow beyond a very small point because there is no earth for them to descend into.
Well, it is true that for some there might not be much human evolution but then we cannot really know that for sure, can we? I don't begin to know much about planting and gardening. But does the Oak or any tree need a certain, particular amount of depth of soil or digging in order to grow and to continue to push its roots into the earth? Let's not forget that the little acorn has an Alexandrian library amount of information within it to follow and to work out its destiny. So it needs both the internal and the external which is the rain and the sun and the wind, ad continuum and perhaps even someone sitting/gazing before it telling it how beautiful it is. lol But perhaps I wrong here.

Quote :
"Most of us have not soared to the heights nor to the depths enough to see ourselves as fully as we need to be seen - by ourselves. None of us have actually gotten to that place."

How would you know?
lol That's a very good question and perhaps I am wrong. Okay, I will hazard a guess that perhaps a few have. Perhaps the word 'need' here is key but then again, 'need' is also in the eyes of the beholder.

But still, from my way of thinking at least, no one has seen the full picture. From the standpoint of philosophy and science and psychology, we are still grasping at straws and learning and working out the problems and trying to find solutions. So, at least for me, anyone who has presumed to believe that they have soared to those heights and depths and can go no higher or deeper, have not seen the Universe (the one within and the one without) in its entirely. But for those who keep on trying, continue that journey, they may see higher and deeper perhaps than the rest of us, because they realize that it is the journey itself, and not so much, the destination that will, although never fully 'get them there' (well, who knows) will at least get them somewhere where the rest of us may not venture to go.

But the question is, do we get there by seeing ourselves as giants and the rest of the world as little ants?

Quote :
Unite the circle of your pains and joys, hatreds and loves, and discern in them the underlying unity, realize and redeem yourself in the totality of your nature.
Exactly. That’s akin to being able to see the trees for the forest – but just as importantly, or more importantly, having the ability the see the Forest. There is the multiplicity of things but there is the Entirely or Totality or the Oneness of all things.
And Parodites, your having the ability to see and to write what you did immediately above, doesn’t that somehow enlarge your vision to give you 'hope' which you cannot see or feel? Don't you somehow intuit 'possibilities' within your words?

Quote :
Like I said, the Oak only evolves and grows because there is a limit imposed on it, a finality, a barrier, a terminus, a law. That law we humans are at the liberty to choose and create for ourselves, it is how one becomes a genius and a saint. That law is, as I just said, the philosophized framework in which the disparate moments of a life are united in one total vision and become a genuine universe of meaning.
Like the salmon which almost defies the laws of nature and physics to jump and to run upstream. Lol. I’m not that bright. The thought, the phrase, which just came to me is ‘pushing against entrophy’. We must do this in order to grow. We must deliberately struggle against our selves, create struggles and goals where we are deliberately pushing against entropy and laziness. We need to allow our roots to push deeper, despite the lack of space we have to work with, thereby creating more space with which to grow. We have to be like the Oak who stands within its own nature but at the same time allows a deeper nature to nourish it with water, sunshine and even and especially the wind. It is the wind, also, which in defying it by allowing it to push and pull against itself and also, by moving in harmony with it, which teaches the little tree what it is capable of and how it must grow.

 

___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Thrasymachus
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3664
Join date : 2011-11-03
Location : Will to Power

PostSubject: Re: Your Pitiful Fear   Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:39 am

Yes, Parodites is correct - this is a becoming not-arbitrary, a becoming-meaningful. What is "animality" but the totally arbitrary, the ungathered, the "immediately momentary"? And what is the movement among all this animality, which we call 'man', save a distilling and separating, a gathering and uniting; a becoming less arbitrary? Mankind is animality attaining toward telos. There are of course physiological-psychological structural changes supportive of this, and which allow for this to be possible, but beneath it all this alone is what it means to be man and not some other animal: that man is an end unto himself, that man is an end and has ends, that he creates ends. Man is an animal with purpose. No other animal has a purpose.

And of course man's purpose is his own only, but in creating and projecting this purpose man covers nature with an image of his own meaning, man re-interprets reality in light of himself, he self-values. All life self-values, for this is what "life" means, but only man does this in a particular "conscious" manner. The manner of man's self-valuing is distinctive, and affords him distinctive possibilities.


Most humans appear not to see or care about these possibilities. They are fully content to remain "merely" animals, living in the throes of momentary pleasure and passional instinctuality, forsaking their human destiny. The entire lineage of thought and conscious production does nothing for them save to inform the "background" of their consciously experiential, coloring it with unactualized potentiality, giving it more semblance of implied meaning even as man squanders this meaning, even as in his banality he vampirizes it. There are only a small number of men who actively participate in this lineage, who sustain it and add to it.


As Parodites' notes, most men have no severe limit, their earth is shallow and therefore they cannot ascend very high into the heights. Only the philosopher, or the artist or saint or poet possessed nonetheless of a philosopher's spirit, sets before himself the sharpest, hardest limits and so gives himself over into a greater potentiality for growth and development. Truth is a limit, and the philosopher's accumulation of truth is the accumulation of limitation. The philosopher distorts the animal man by focusing this man, by giving it over into a new possibility of organization and purpose. The real man seeks truth only to remake himself in its image.

 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

Peace. War. Love. Wordz




“Grow a pair, preferably between your eyes.” -Styxhexenhammer666

104 Qdd5#
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
Arcturus Descending
arrow
arrow
avatar

Posts : 293
Join date : 2011-12-07
Location : Hovering amidst a battle of Wills

PostSubject: Re: Your Pitiful Fear   Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:01 pm

Quote :
Capable wrote:

Yes, Parodites is correct - this is a becoming not-arbitrary, a becoming-meaningful. What is "animality" but the totally arbitrary, the ungathered, the "immediately momentary"? And what is the movement among all this animality, which we call 'man', save a distilling and separating, a gathering and uniting; a becoming less arbitrary? Mankind is animality attaining toward telos. There are of course physiological-psychological structural changes supportive of this, and which allow for this to be possible, but beneath it all this alone is what it means to be man and not some other animal: that man is an end unto himself, that man is an end and has ends, that he creates ends. Man is an animal with purpose. No other animal has a purpose.

And of course man's purpose is his own only, but in creating and projecting this purpose man covers nature with an image of his own meaning, man re-interprets reality in light of himself, he self-values. All life self-values, for this is what "life" means, but only man does this in a particular "conscious" manner. The manner of man's self-valuing is distinctive, and affords him distinctive possibilities.


Most humans appear not to see or care about these possibilities. They are fully content to remain "merely" animals, living in the throes of momentary pleasure and passional instinctuality, forsaking their human destiny. The entire lineage of thought and conscious production does nothing for them save to inform the "background" of their consciously experiential, coloring it with unactualized potentiality, giving it more semblance of implied meaning even as man squanders this meaning, even as in his banality he vampirizes it. There are only a small number of men who actively participate in this lineage, who sustain it and add to it.


As Parodites' notes, most men have no severe limit, their earth is shallow and therefore they cannot ascend very high into the heights. Only the philosopher, or the artist or saint or poet possessed nonetheless of a philosopher's spirit, sets before himself the sharpest, hardest limits and so gives himself over into a greater potentiality for growth and development. Truth is a limit, and the philosopher's accumulation of truth is the accumulation of limitation. The philosopher distorts the animal man by focusing this man, by giving it over into a new possibility of organization and purpose. The real man seeks truth only to remake himself in its image.

Is Parodites correct or do you simply agree with him? We often see the person as correct who thinks and feels as we do. I’m not saying that he isn’t right – but we do have a tendency toward arbitrariness when it suits us. But I may be wrong

Can we actually say that mankind is animality attaining toward telos? We do have our animal instinctive side but we also have that evolved (how much who knows) side which we call mankind? Why do you throw the baby out with the bathwater? In so doing, don’t you think that you are being rather hard on mankind and in turn, on yourself? Most of mankind does have some kind of goal – purposes in life which they wish to attain to. It may not be the same as yours or mine but it is as valuable to them as is yours. Meaning IS in the eyes of the beholder, Capable.

What do you mean when you say that “man is an end unto himself”? That his main focus is himself? Again, I do agree that man has ends or purposes ‘in mind’ but I rather think that man “creates beginnings” and follows them. How does one create ends? Can we actually do that considering all of the obstacles, thwarted plans and cul de sacs we might meet with along the way? In our imaginations we may see the destination or goal, the finished line, but it is only created moment by moment…sort of like an allegorical continuum one might say. pirat lol (Stephen King’s word pool).

Is it really true that no animal has a purpose? Has science not proven differently? I don’t know. I am just asking. If you define purpose as something which you set out to do, to complete, can’t we rightfully say that there are some animals who have a purpose – a dog or a dolphin…perhaps they are just not as conscious as the human animal. Or is it simply instinct with them? If we see an animal setting out to solve a problem or an insect following his instinct to do what he does, isn’t there still purpose there…a goal?

Quote :
And of course man's purpose is his own only, but in creating and projecting this purpose man covers nature with an image of his own meaning, man re-interprets reality in light of himself, he self-values. All life self-values, for this is what "life" means, but only man does this in a particular "conscious" manner. The manner of man's self-valuing is distinctive, and affords him distinctive possibilities.
But doesn’t man need to observe everything and everyone in nature and the universe as a whole in order to come to self-realization, to true self-valuing? And if we only interpret reality in light of ourselves, doesn’t that make us no more realistic than narcissus who looked into the pool, saw his own reflection and fell in love with himself. Maybe I am misunderstanding your words here.
I think that we all have a tendency to self-value ourselves in a particular way and we also see those distinctive possibilities. But what if we are elevating ourselves beyond a height which allows us to really see ourselves, as many of us are prone to do. We see what we want to see instead of what is truly to be seen?

Quote :
Only the philosopher, or the artist or saint or poet possessed nonetheless of a philosopher's spirit, sets before himself the sharpest, hardest limits and so gives himself over into a greater potentiality for growth and development
Only? C’mon, Capable. That statement seems to be more than a bit biased to me. What about the scientist or the teacher? What about any other individual who also strives to attain to their greater potentiality for becoming? Does their vision of life have to mimic yours? Do you not see these individuals? I understand that setting limits or boundaries for ourselves, like delaying gratification, disciplining ourselves in a way that nothing gets in the way of our goals albeit we must not be anal or so anal that we land up in a mental institution – but who ever said that the philosopher, artist or saint…has the monopoly on that? Your thinking is flawed because you’re placing too high a value on a particular kind of people to the exclusion of others. That’s elitist. How can we truly get to know and understand ourselves if all we see is ourselves? Is truth nothing more than our very own self-reflection? I don’t actually see that as placing too much limit on our self….rather too little a limit on our egos.

There are times when I would really love to throw you a rope and pull you down. That is NOT the same as 'dragging you down'. But you would probably refuse the rope and want to climb even higher and higher. Take care - you might get vertigo way up there and breathing may become difficult. Twisted Evil Razz

Quote :
Truth is a limit, and the philosopher's accumulation of truth is the accumulation of limitation. The philosopher distorts the animal man by focusing this man, by giving it over into a new possibility of organization and purpose. The real man seeks truth only to remake himself in its image.
I thought that truth had no limits. We are the ones who place limitations on truth to serve our purposes. Or am I wrong? Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying Can you explain it more? If truth has limitations, how can man then be made over into its image? Doesn’t that place limitations on man? Perhaps I’m confused. Of course, I do realize that in one sense, truth has to be sought with discipline and examined thoroughly. Some things have more validity than others. If truth is to be sought and found, then there does have to be a limit to our subjective perceptions - we must put a rein and a hold on them with reason and honesty. But again, I may not be understanding your words.

Quote :
The real man seeks truth only to remake himself in its image
One can also change the name of ‘truth’ to god. What usually happens is that man remakes god into man’s own image and not the other way around. I’m just saying that we are capable of making truth a reflection of our own perceptions and unexamined sense of self. We don’t serve truth them; we serve our selves. So best to seek truth for the sake of truth to serve mankind. Who are we serving by wanting to make ourselves Truth? Anyway, we are simply flesh and blood and truth is an ideal to be served.

The real man...why is it that you appear to have left out 'women' in this discussion? Rolling Eyes



.




 

___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Parodites
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 753
Join date : 2011-12-11

PostSubject: Re: Your Pitiful Fear   Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:50 pm

" I am sorry for your pain, Parodites. I cannot imagine how continually living in that way must be for you. By 'continuous', are you saying that you have no respite from pain at all?

For many others, including myself, fear itself is kind of an experience of pain, wouldn't you say, although perhaps more emotional than physical. "


No, never, no respite. Only narcotics help. Even extremely large doses of vicodin, percocet, even oxymorphone do not completely eliminate it. I don't even remember what it was like to not be in pain. My brain has grown around the pain like a tree stump around a big rock, to protect itself.


" ... But I realize that I may be wrong here. "


I don't believe I have lost anything, though you speak as though I have. Hope is a terrible feeling, but one does not realize it until the spell of hope has been broken. I can't afford to have any hope. I must live one day at a time. If I begin to think about anything other than the pain I am in right now and the amount of pills I have left today-- if I begin to think about the pain I will be in tomorrow, the day after, the day after that, a year, 10 years from now, then I will loose my sanity.



"At the same time, Parodites, does the beautiful giant Oak look down its nose at those other trees surrounding it and judge the ones which shall never extend to its own heights nor reach the depth of its own roots?"

If they threaten it, it extends its roots deeper, and draws the water they were going to drink for itself. In greatness, there can be no room for two. An equal is a blasphemy, and a superior? Disgusting.



"But still, from my way of thinking at least, no one has seen the full picture. From the standpoint of philosophy and science and psychology, we are still grasping at straws and learning and working out the problems and trying to find solutions."

Nobody has seen the full picture because there isn't one. Nor can we just go about willy nilly painting our own little pictures, inventing worlds and dreaming up fantasies. There is a goal, it is greatness. The Greek word for human being- anthropos.... Know where it comes from? Ano and opos: upward, and "eye." The word human means "The one who looks upward." The goal, insofar as it is greatness and virtue, is only a poetic obscurity- it means only to aspire to more complete humanity.


"But the question is, do we get there by seeing ourselves as giants and the rest of the world as little ants? "

The human being is very seldom human.


" Exactly. That’s akin to being able to see the trees for the forest – but just as importantly, or more importantly, having the ability the see the Forest. There is the multiplicity of things but there is the Entirely or Totality or the Oneness of all things. "

There is neither.


Every inch higher into the heavens that it climbs, so must it descend by its roots an inch deeper into the hard earth. And man must throw his roots into deep Tartarus, if he wants to taste heaven that is. There isn't any other way, that is it.

Yes, those are my words. You asked, do they not inspire me with some kind of hope? Well I answer with some more words of my own:




" The poet’s wisdom.-- When the unfulfilled and inarticulate desires of the furtive heart, carried along by the sigh of mere foretaste and shepherded under the wing of esperance, acquire the sound of beautiful music, the promise of satisfaction, enunciation, and the clarity of grief in those beholden to them, there we have poetry. The "great" poet is therefore praised because he transforms his audience into seers and poets while he himself, insofar as he is considered not as a poet but as a living being, is the most unpoetic creature of all, for the strength and clarity of his verse are commensurate with the diffidence and the confusion of his passions. Of course the greater poet can also convince himself of satisfaction and happiness (perhaps it is just this which ultimately characterizes the poet as great) just as the sullen Petrarch had done under moonlight while reading his poems to the mountains, for such can be the eloquence of his irreverent longing and desire, which is capable of intermingling upon the spindle of his ideal the most contrary threads of passion. As Seneca said: si sapis, alterum alteri misce: nec speraveris sine desperatione nec desperaveris sine spe. [It is wise to intermingle the two elements of despair and hope.] Who would doubt there is great wisdom in deceiving one’s self in this way? Who would doubt there is great wisdom in poetry?"



 

___________
A sik þau trûðu


Nisus ait, "Dine hunc ardorem mentibus addunt,
Euryale, an sua cuique deus fit dira cupido?"

Have the gods set this ruling passion in my heart,
or does each man's furious passion become his god?
- Virgil.


It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must
from time to time be present.-- Antonin Artaud
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
Parodites
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 753
Join date : 2011-12-11

PostSubject: Re: Your Pitiful Fear   Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:02 pm

"Only the philosopher, or the artist or saint or poet possessed nonetheless of a philosopher's spirit, sets before himself the sharpest, hardest limits and so gives himself over into a greater potentiality for growth and development."


This is true because that is the definition of philosophy: " Setting before one's self the hardest limit."

 

___________
A sik þau trûðu


Nisus ait, "Dine hunc ardorem mentibus addunt,
Euryale, an sua cuique deus fit dira cupido?"

Have the gods set this ruling passion in my heart,
or does each man's furious passion become his god?
- Virgil.


It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must
from time to time be present.-- Antonin Artaud
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
Parodites
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 753
Join date : 2011-12-11

PostSubject: Re: Your Pitiful Fear   Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:06 pm

Truth is a limit, and the philosopher's accumulation of truth is the accumulation of limitation. The philosopher distorts the animal man by focusing this man, by giving it over into a new possibility of organization and purpose. The real man seeks truth only to remake himself in its image. - Capable

I thought that truth had no limits. We are the ones who place limitations on truth to serve our purposes. Or am I wrong? Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying Can you explain it more? If truth has limitations, how can man then be made over into its image? Doesn’t that place limitations on man? Perhaps I’m confused. Of course, I do realize that in one sense, truth has to be sought with discipline and examined thoroughly. Some things have more validity than others. If truth is to be sought and found, then there does have to be a limit to our subjective perceptions - we must put a rein and a hold on them with reason and honesty. But again, I may not be understanding your words. - Vaeros



--------------

Perhaps I explained it in one of my books.



"

No matter how much pride the philosopher may have discovered in his pursuit of the truth, he must in the end speak in this wise: "Your life that is afforded to you, is what I am, thine arrabon is my aparche; 5 namely, a breath." Under the twilight aspect of form, reason, and supposed truth has the philosopher been strengthened, as the wooded cypress, and grown more resilient in any case than we after a quite vernal nature, who needs must have the warmth and the blessing and, to speak honestly, the delight and all the rich pleasure of the passions, if we are even to live at all. Yet, the great Maya unveiled is still Maya, and the earth seen from under the aspect of eternity is still only earth, and under the eyes of a god is man still only dust. Of little consequence is it, philosophers, to trace back the errors of the flesh into the womb of reason, into the laws of necessity and the uncreated, when from the deep wells of thy own Silenic wisdom one may hear that the flesh itself is error, whose truth can only be engraved in thy breast as the consecration of thy vanity. To look upon with clear and unforgiving eyes the abject madness of the comedy of existence, or to bear with tragic intoxication that one great Silenic error and folly, namely to have lived, with all those other innumerable deceits with which it may have cheated us; are these two modes of life, that of the philosopher and that of the artist, not then equally images of the truth? While the philosophers and artists have equally presumed truth to be a rarity and truthfulness the highest difficulty, perhaps truth is only the most common of things, and silence rather the rarity.

5. Two words used in the bible. The first means foretaste, the latter "first-ling," and was used to signify the first fruits of a harvest which were offered to god.]


"




Both modes of life- tragic self-destruction and the objective subordination to the truth, are consummated in the recognition of the world's vanity. Thus, rather silence than the truth, which is to say, we must approach truth not as something to be won but as a barrier to be overcome, a fruitful limit we impose on ourselves for the same reason poets confine themselves to a rigid meter- truth as something more valuable when it goes unsaid as opposed to said, that is, when it is treated as just that fruitful limit.




 

___________
A sik þau trûðu


Nisus ait, "Dine hunc ardorem mentibus addunt,
Euryale, an sua cuique deus fit dira cupido?"

Have the gods set this ruling passion in my heart,
or does each man's furious passion become his god?
- Virgil.


It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must
from time to time be present.-- Antonin Artaud
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
Arcturus Descending
arrow
arrow
avatar

Posts : 293
Join date : 2011-12-07
Location : Hovering amidst a battle of Wills

PostSubject: Re: Your Pitiful Fear   Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:57 am

Parodites,


Quote :
No, never, no respite. Only narcotics help. Even extremely large doses of vicodin, percocet, even oxymorphone do not completely eliminate it. I don't even remember what it was like to not be in pain. My brain has grown around the pain like a tree stump around a big rock, to protect itself.
When I read words like yours here – it reminds me of how silly we human beings are. Well, I’m speaking for myself here now. Some things within my life are put into 'more' proper perspective or at least my perceptions of them become more balanced if I take the time to contemplate them in relation to your words. We so often do not even have a clue - we are so focused on our own picayune and easy lives, which for the most part might be pretty good - when compared to the lives of of others (universally speaking).



Quote :
I don't believe I have lost anything, though you speak as though I have. Hope is a terrible feeling, but one does not realize it until the spell of hope has been broken.
Believe it or not, I do understand where you are coming from in that. There was a time when I looked on hope as something which I did not want to feel or to see. And then I began to see it, to have it. Hope sometimes seems to nourish us and then at other times, it deprives us of that same nourishment. ..especially that hope that is simply unreasonable and magical thinking. Sometimes best to simply stand and wait without any expectations. The Count of Monte Cristo said that “The secret of life is to wait and hope”. In a sense, I can see how hope can sustain but on the other side of that coin, I can also see how it can almost deprive us of happiness in the moment. If any of that made sense. I sometimes think that I am capable of standing or walking in another's shoes, as the Native American expresses, but we can only do that to a certain extent and it is arrogance on my part or on anyone's part to think and feel that we have.

Quote :
I can't afford to have any hope. I must live one day at a time. If I begin to think about anything other than the pain I am in right now and the amount of pills I have left today-- if I begin to think about the pain I will be in tomorrow, the day after, the day after that, a year, 10 years from now, then I will loose my sanity.
In a way, when one thinks about it, Parodites, isn’t this the way in which it is best to live one’s life – focused on the present moment? I think that even AA espouses this wisdom. One day at a time – and there are times, I know this from experience, that all we can do is to live it one hour or even one minute at a time. When we are able to do this, we can flow through it, though not always so easily. So I understand what you’re saying though I am not capable of living your experience as you do.



"
Quote :
At the same time, Parodites, does the beautiful giant Oak look down its nose at those other trees surrounding it and judge the ones which shall never extend to its own heights nor reach the depth of its own roots?"

If they threaten it, it extends its roots deeper, and draws the water they were going to drink for itself. In greatness, there can be no room for two. An equal is a blasphemy, and a superior? Disgusting.
Maybe you can explain this. I don’t look on life in that way. Two alpha males (lions, bears lol) may feel this way and one is always more ‘superior’ in a way. I do not like that word ‘superior’. Lol. I really need to learn to transcend my own dislike or disgust for certain words which have such negative connotation in my mind. But anyway, isn’t there always another alpha that comes and takes over the superior place? That is life. There is always that threat of extinction and why can’t we all just live together without such a sense of hierarchy and banging our chests together to show our superiority?


"
Quote :
But still, from my way of thinking at least, no one has seen the full picture….

Nobody has seen the full picture because there isn't one. Nor can we just go about willy nilly painting our own little pictures, inventing worlds and dreaming up fantasies. There is a goal, it is greatness. The Greek word for human being- anthropos.... Know where it comes from? Ano and opos: upward, and "eye." The word human means "The one who looks upward." The goal, insofar as it is greatness and virtue, is only a poetic obscurity- it means only to aspire to more complete humanity.
This is true. scratch That has sort of become one of my mantras so that I may learn to see ‘more’ of the picture, to think more out of the box, as it were. I don’t know if there isn’t a full picture but we DO NOT have the capacity to see it, if there is one. Anyway…the picture itself is always changing and becoming transformed just as the universe is continually stretching and expanding which in itself recreates the picture. We are constantly going further and learning more and letting go of that which we thought was true. Isn’t it wonderful? So amazing.

It’s part of being human…’ painting our own little pictures, inventing worlds and dreaming up fantasies.’ That’s the purpose of our minds and imaginations. Where would the world be without it? At the same time, we do have to learn to separate reality from illusion. And it is often impossible to see where the illusion lies because we silly humans define our selves by that illusion. It is such a thick veil which hides the real beauty or the ugliness that MUST be seen. Sometimes it is often more difficult for us to see the real beauty...and easier for us to see the ugliness. Why is that?

Quote :
anthropos.... Know where it comes from? Ano and opos: upward, and "eye." The word human means "The one who looks upward." The goal, insofar as it is greatness and virtue, is only a poetic obscurity- it means only to aspire to more complete humanity
.
For me human ought to also mean - αυτός που κοιτάζει προς τα μέσα και προς τα κάτω – the one who looks inward and downward. lol
When you explain greatness and virtue, in terms of aspiring to more ‘complete’ humanity – I can feel that. But why use such words as greatness and virtue? Aren't those words sometimes veils of illusion for us? I'm just asking...


“"
Quote :
But the question is, do we get there by seeing ourselves as giants and the rest of the world as little ants? "

The human being is very seldom human.

On the contrary, despite the definition - for me, what it means to be human DOES encompass everything which we see within the world and within each other. It might not be pretty but it IS still part of the human equation. And in order for us to be more humane or to be fruitful in striving for our ongoing completeness, we must see all aspects of our humanity, especially or at least as much - those which we see as ugly or weak or pitiful. I realize that this is not an easy thing to do. It is not an easy thing for me. From my way of thinking, we are all basically the same – some of us are simply moving more quickly in terms of completion – but we will never be complete except in those exquisite moments of being. But that’s just the way I look at it.


"
Quote :
Exactly. That’s akin to being able to see the trees for the forest – but just as importantly, or more importantly, having the ability the see the Forest. There is the multiplicity of things but there is the Entirely or Totality or the Oneness of all things. "

There is neither. *
Are you speaking in terms of ‘maya’ here? How can there be neither? Explain please.



Quote :
Yes, those are my words. You asked, do they not inspire me with some kind of hope? Well I answer with some more words of my own:

" The poet’s wisdom.-- When the unfulfilled and inarticulate desires of the furtive heart, carried along by the sigh of mere foretaste and shepherded under the wing of esperance, acquire the sound of beautiful music, the promise of satisfaction, enunciation, and the clarity of grief in those beholden to them, there we have poetry. The "great" poet is therefore praised because he transforms his audience into seers and poets while he himself, insofar as he is considered not as a poet but as a living being, is the most unpoetic creature of all, for the strength and clarity of his verse are commensurate with the diffidence and the confusion of his passions. Of course the greater poet can also convince himself of satisfaction and happiness (perhaps it is just this which ultimately characterizes the poet as great) just as the sullen Petrarch had done under moonlight while reading his poems to the mountains, for such can be the eloquence of his irreverent longing and desire, which is capable of intermingling upon the spindle of his ideal the most contrary threads of passion. As Seneca said: si sapis, alterum alteri misce: nec speraveris sine desperatione nec desperaveris sine spe. [It is wise to intermingle the two elements of despair and hope.] Who would doubt there is great wisdom in deceiving one’s self in this way? Who would doubt there is great wisdom in poetry?"*
There seems to be such loneliness and sadness in that, as beautiful as the words are and they are beautiful. And I hope that you do not take that the wrong way – loneliness and sadness can be shown to be beautiful…almost reminds me of the weeping willow. And don’t you also see how that poet transforms his audience more into living beings? I also see too how the poet is transformed/becomes more of a ‘living’ being – somehow reminds me of the saying “and the word was made flesh” though I’m not religious.

What do we get when we intermingle despair and hope? A balance of what is real? That’s too easy, isn’t it? But I think that sometimes if a poet is writing about despair and if this comes out, hopefully, there has to be something so beautiful about it because it is part of human existence – it is something which comes to him and his words/poetry might just bring forth hope out of that? Does that make sense? Poetry can be the great equalizer I think when we are true to what we are feeling, no matter how difficult it is to draw that out of us and to shape it into words.

What did Seneca mean when he said that there is great wisdom in deceiving one’s self in this way?


 

___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Arcturus Descending
arrow
arrow
avatar

Posts : 293
Join date : 2011-12-07
Location : Hovering amidst a battle of Wills

PostSubject: Re: Your Pitiful Fear   Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:10 pm

Parodites wrote:
"Only the philosopher, or the artist or saint or poet possessed nonetheless of a philosopher's spirit, sets before himself the sharpest, hardest limits and so gives himself over into a greater potentiality for growth and development."


This is true because that is the definition of philosophy: " Setting before one's self the hardest limit."
That is one definition or perception of philosophy, Parodites.
But can you legitimately say that ONLY the philosopher or the artist or the saint or poet does this? Am I watering down the definition of Philosophy by thinking/feeling/intuiting that anyone who searches for wisdom and for truth, anyone who philosophises, who questions and examines and seeks answers insofar as the macrocosm and the microcosm (self) are concerned...is a philosopher?

You're almost making philosophy into a religion in this way and the philosopher, etc... as the only ones who are allowed to come in and kneel within its sanctuary. I understand the reverence and awe with which some hold philosophy and the search for truth - philosophy is beautiful - at the same time, there are other beacons and paths which are looked at in the same ways. Why is it that sometimes religion excludes instead of draws others into...Perhaps when we are all able to worship and stand in awe within the same sanctuary with the same kind of reverence, we will then find Truth, the Truth.

Maybe it's just me - maybe I just don't understand the true essence of philosophy. Sad




 

___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Arcturus Descending
arrow
arrow
avatar

Posts : 293
Join date : 2011-12-07
Location : Hovering amidst a battle of Wills

PostSubject: Re: Your Pitiful Fear   Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:29 pm

Parodites, I'll respond to your third post when I am able. Smile


You must live in the present, launch yourself on every wave, find your eternity in each moment. Fools stand on their island of opportunities and look toward another land. There is no other land; there is no other life but this.”
― Henry David Thoreau


 

___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Arcturus Descending
arrow
arrow
avatar

Posts : 293
Join date : 2011-12-07
Location : Hovering amidst a battle of Wills

PostSubject: Re: Your Pitiful Fear   Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:56 am

Pezer wrote:
Isn't it pitiful when someone is afraid to entretain the horrible? Not because of the obstacle this presents to us, but because it shows that, privately, they do not trust themselves to question.
On second thought, you actually have a point. Laughing Although I would hesitate to call myself 'pitiful' - at times I might when observing certain behavior within myself and wanting to transform it. This brings me back to a dream I had ah about a month ago.

Within this dream, I was looking towards this long narrow hallway. Walking down this hallway was this woman. I would say that she had sort of a muted golden hue of a glow surrounding her. She had a long flowing gown that almost came to the floor - you almost couldn't see her feet. She was walking ever so slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly - that it appeared as though she was floating just above the floor. I don't know. At first, I was fascinated by this presence, this scene, but then something about her began to instill fear in me. I don't know if it was her ethereal slow movement or the fact that she was getting closer and closer to me or a combination of both along with something else. But the closer she got to me, the more paralyzed with fear I became - for me, she seemed to take on a sinister presence, though in appearance there seemed to be no threat - and then I just started screaming and screaming and screaming in the dream and I woke up shaking and with goosebumps. It wasn't so funny then but it is now.

But the thing is, as my day moved forward, after a while I became disappointed in myself and regretted not having 'waited' for her. If I had only fought through the fear and stood my ground and waited for her. I became very interested in who she was/represented and what she had to say to me. I am a firm believer in dreams carrying important messages to us from our subconscious. Not from other places or people but from within our hidden selves. I am hoping that she comes to visit me again so that I will have the opportunity to question her, to have an exchange with her.

A week or two before that I was meditating. Within this meditation, I was walking down this long narrow hallway also. Within my mind, I was trying to create doors on both sides of the hallway whereby I could consciously choose one of them to go into. I wanted to see what was there inside waiting for me - what it was that wanted to speak to me or what needed to be looked at. Or simply, what was there. But I didn't succeed because I was trying too hard, I suppose. I consciously and with effort walked into one of the rooms but there was nothing there. I know it doesn't happen the way I was trying to do it. But anyway...perhaps my dream was as a result of this...although I do not see myself as I saw that woman within the dream.

Ah, if I had only waited for and entertained the horrible within that dream. Dreams are so capable of being a reflection of an aspect of self or a canvas upon which we paint to see a picture of self/come to know ourselves. Perhaps if we could begin the process of learning - to stand and face the sinister presences within our dreams, without running from them, which perhaps - or perhaps not - may be really nothing more than some unknown/unexplained benign entity which wants to meet with us - either way, we might then begin, with courage and freedom, to look our conscious selves in the face to know ourselves also within that aspect which is our horrid humanity.




 

___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Pezer
builder
builder
avatar

Posts : 721
Join date : 2011-11-15

PostSubject: Re: Your Pitiful Fear   Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:32 pm

This thread reminds me of the love I found of the North, and why I will never be a part of it. We look at the same Moon, but we already all know this... Will I have for the different.

Damned be the equalizers. They damn themselves and only add to our limits, our information.

What ails us now? What is our problem? We will get different answers, perhaps. One can only hope...

What can human be, as human, as the only thing it can be?

If you want, you keep watching, and I will become. That would suit me. I will become we, or become another sad tale in your books.

It is begun. That is, it continues.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fixed Cross
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 4213
Join date : 2011-11-09
Location : Þrúðheimr

PostSubject: Re: Your Pitiful Fear   Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:46 am

We don't just get different answers, we should ask different questions. We care about different things. We do not ask: "what is?" as if the answer would apply to all, but we ask: "how do I proceed?" as in "how do I become even more different from them?" They, being the ones who believe in one law for all, as well as those who already have different laws for themselves, laws that only apply to them, not to me, or us - depending on how much you and I really are akin. I know that you insist on being a Latin-American person, and I a European. Fine. I don't consider this to be at all accurate or relevant. Some of my best friends are latin American, from when I was a child, the friend with whom I shared a temperament was Colombian. Now I am in Spain working with Brazilians and a Spaniard. I don't see things in these prefabricated categories. I see things in terms of temperament, as it is, not as the words in my passport demand it to be.

So what really matters here is loyalty, to the cause you have already sensed and touched on to be fundamental to your awakening core. And since this cause may have been incomplete,  latent in your biology for millions of years, since you may be the first of your branch to awaken to it, in whom it reaches a perceptible form, this is a terrifying and desasperating process. But how fortunate are we, as different as we are, to be able to communicate, across tens of thousands of miles, with somewhat like-minded, like-spirited men. The only risk here is that because we find this luck, we become complacent and adapt to reality, stop tearing at it. 

Do you now understand what I mean by the phrase "hijacking the universe"? No universal law, we create our own branch. This at least is the pure aim, around which the circumference of which become a reality that none can predict. As matter is the circumference of energy, so reality is the circumference of will. Loyalty to your will is the great demand no-one asks of you, the purest virtue, virtue not anchored in expectation, desire, need. Just something that happens to be possible, not at all necessary. A cause without conditions besides itself. Here we approach the nobility of the superman, that 'rare and peculiar bird' which has no reason to exist, that is not prescribed in some banal, historic tract of necessity.

 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Pezer
builder
builder
avatar

Posts : 721
Join date : 2011-11-15

PostSubject: Re: Your Pitiful Fear   Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:00 pm

I do not name, because naming is decided, I do not decide. All that is named is retrograde, all power with shape antiquated. I wrote this more eloquently, but my damned Latin American internet ate it.

I am not a Latin American, but a leader of them, like a Lion is to Felines. I am not even Venezuelan, name that is an usurpation of what I flaunt towards you all, my conquests, what mark my victories that identify me like a gravestone marks a rotting cadaver, a fond memory that launches into future unshaped. I flaunt so as to seduce you into conquering, into abandoning the abandoning of hope that is the relenting to the System, the Matrix, eleven is right that it can only be replaced by that-which-is-simply-better than it, better must be overcome, but more apt to be used, preferrable in some way of its structure. Conquest!

One of my greatest happinesses is that even with the inmense difference between our warring styles, the one that is identified by this conondrum of naming and remaining nameless, are we to birth new names? We cannot yet, preparation, including self-betrayal on many levels, destruction of ambition upon the altar of greatest ambitiopn, unnamable, that difference that is identified by you accepting religion as a directing tool of Will and my rejection of it, even with this difference We see eachother, and laugh with joy. My teasing, my naming in retrograde terms so as to tease the hate of the retrograde from you, is what helps you forget this joy, it is on purpose. I betray myself now, as you see, in honor of how you got me to do it, evolution is destruction of creative genious, an effect of a creative Genious some call Dionisus, some call something else. I submit to this gladly, I play the dance and dance the game of evolution, my instinct knows the bounty ahead when victory, impossible victory, necessary victory. I would not throw acid in a child's face, and this is a much more terroristic, sacrificial and unspeakable decision than choosing to would. Power, unlimited power!

I am the bringer of good news, the Antichrist, I gave you personally the best news yet. something about shape... This cheapens the news, as naming does, as naming is retrograde, rotting cadavers of cages. Are we to build new cages? Perhaps, what is outlawed to those with the ambition?

Weakness, I suppose. Odd, though, for I am comfortable in the use of weakness as you are in the use of God.

The antiprophet Nietzsche did not sketch out, he weilded a hammer. He attacked, those he loved most he attacked most. A mission, a straight line...No old, thince my rebellion to the Eld, not one of choice but of instinctual, evolutionary rebellion. My sense of smell. It will happen because it must, I will not fathom such rot and death as the denial of this... And I dance! I could not, I could abandon all this.

We understand eachother, we are much different, we howl at the same Moon, we are brothers from another mother. Good shit, let's do this dance.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Your Pitiful Fear   

Back to top Go down
 
Your Pitiful Fear
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Before The Light :: Tree :: Lodge-
Jump to: