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 Warriors are the most afraid. The most fearfull are most feared.

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PostSubject: Warriors are the most afraid. The most fearfull are most feared.   Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:38 pm

We fight only against what we fear.
The fearless man is the peaceful man.

Suffering is the path of fulfilling desire.
Nirvana is not absence of suffering,
but having less desires.

The Buddha is a soul at the old stage
experienced enough to know what is worth desiring.

Satisfied with less
by seeing more.
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PostSubject: Re: Warriors are the most afraid. The most fearfull are most feared.   Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:23 pm

Abstract wrote:
We fight only against what we fear.
The fearless man is the peaceful man.

Suffering is the path of fulfilling desire.
Nirvana is not absence of suffering,
but having less desires.

The Buddha is a soul at the old stage
experienced enough to know what is worth desiring.

Satisfied with less
by seeing more.
Is seeing something, for instance, as harmful, and fighting against that, the same as being fearful? Is awareness the same as fearfulness? Is having the ability to see into the future by being aware of the present and acting on that - is that the same as being fearful - albeit fear can be a tool for survival.


The fearless man may also be the unaware man or the fool. Just saying.
Does the 'peaceful' man give up his survival instinct?

Suffering may also be the path or the fire by which we burn away our 'empty' and genuinely meaningless desires.
I thought nirvana was more an experience of wonderful and complete emptiness...a 'being there' sort of place.
But is more seen - or is 'enough' seen? But I understand what you mean by more - 'complete' is a far better word to me.



 

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Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Warriors are the most afraid. The most fearfull are most feared.   Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:07 pm

VaerosTanarg wrote:
Abstract wrote:
We fight only against what we fear.
The fearless man is the peaceful man.

Suffering is the path of fulfilling desire.
Nirvana is not absence of suffering,
but having less desires.

The Buddha is a soul at the old stage
experienced enough to know what is worth desiring.

Satisfied with less
by seeing more.
Is seeing something, for instance, as harmful, and fighting against that, the same as being fearful? Is awareness the same as fearfulness? Is having the ability to see into the future by being aware of the present and acting on that - is that the same as being fearful - albeit fear can be a tool for survival.
hear I am thinking of fear as being regardless of anxiety, and thus mostly concern of the future. So awareness is not fearfulness, being aware of the future in a manner that leads to the desire of action for prevention...perhaps... Perhaps being fulfilled by the now one does not need so much of a future, and need not worry about it. The more people the more concerned for the future the more people taking action to change it and the more of that there is the harder it is to change it and the more suffering must be paid for what change of it is desired.

Quote :

The fearless man may also be the unaware man or the fool. Just saying.
Does the 'peaceful' man give up his survival instinct?
If a person can be fulfilled in a moment now what need is there of survival into a future?

Quote :

Suffering may also be the path or the fire by which we burn away our 'empty' and genuinely meaningless desires.
Absence of suffering comes only after one has suffered. Suffering is required. It is balance that should be sought.

Quote :

I thought nirvana was more an experience of wonderful and complete emptiness...a 'being there' sort of place.
But is more seen - or is 'enough' seen? But I understand what you mean by more - 'complete' is a far better word to me.


Seeing more of the infinite things in each single thing. be that thing physical or an idea.
Complete emptiness is as complete absence wherein there is absence of absence and thus presence...
Nothing is "complete" it is by limitation that anything "is".

Nirvana is emptiness of the Right things
It is balance... Perhaps of what is called the Middle Path...
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PostSubject: Re: Warriors are the most afraid. The most fearfull are most feared.   Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:04 pm

Quote :
Is seeing something, for instance, as harmful, and fighting against that, the same as being fearful? Is awareness the same as fearfulness? Is having the ability to see into the future by being aware of the present and acting on that - is that the same as being fearful - albeit fear can be a tool for survival.

hear I am thinking of fear as being regardless of anxiety, and thus mostly concern of the future.

So awareness is not fearfulness, being aware of the future in a manner that leads to the desire of action for prevention...perhaps... Perhaps being fulfilled by the now one does not need so much of a future, and need not worry about it.

So perhaps you are thinking of fear in terms of an unproductive focusing on the future. But one may live in and feel fulfilled by the present moment and at the same time, have the awareness of knowing that one must ALSO plan for the future. There are those who live only in the future and miss the present and there are also those who live ONLY for the moment and see no future.

Quote :
The more people the more concerned for the future the more people taking action to change it and the more of that there is the harder it is to change it and the more suffering must be paid for what change of it is desired.
Can you please explain what you mean by this a bit more.


Quote :
The fearless man may also be the unaware man or the fool. Just saying.
Does the 'peaceful' man give up his survival instinct?

If a person can be fulfilled in a moment now what need is there of survival into a future?
I think that I may intuit what you’re saying here. When we are fully living and flowing in the present moment, there is no thought of a future or a past either. Time stands still or even disappears. There is only the core self. Unless I am misunderstanding your meaning.



Quote :
Suffering may also be the path or the fire by which we burn away our 'empty' and genuinely meaningless desires.

Absence of suffering comes only after one has suffered. Suffering is required. It is balance that should be sought.
Yes, I am with you on this. Suffering is a process that one must go through if one is to come out "on the other side" so to speak and it does require balance. But at the same time, it requires that nothing be forced nor sacrificed but only experienced in the moment.



Quote :
I thought nirvana was more an experience of wonderful and complete emptiness...a 'being there' sort of place.
But is more seen - or is 'enough' seen? But I understand what you mean by more - 'complete' is a far better word to me.

Seeing more of the infinite things in each single thing. be that thing physical or an idea.


As Blake said: “To see the world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wildflower, is to hold infinity in the palm of your hand and eternity in an hour.”
Now that is living in the 'complete' moment - having an experience "come to us" like that.

Quote :
Complete emptiness is as complete absence wherein there is absence of absence and thus presence...
That’s sort of difficult to wrap my mind around. But basically, I think what you are saying here is that there can never be complete emptiness. Can you explain why?

Quote :
Nothing is "complete" it is by limitation that anything "is".
I have many moments when I am feeling ‘complete’…no thought of any limitation…when time stands still and there is just the being there...perhaps there is not even that.

Quote :
Nirvana is emptiness of the Right things
It is balance... Perhaps of what is called the Middle Path...
nir•va•na (nîr-vä n , n r-)
n.
1. often Nirvana
a. Buddhism The ineffable ultimate in which one has attained disinterested wisdom and compassion.
b. Hinduism Emancipation from ignorance and the extinction of all attachment.
2. An ideal condition of rest, harmony, stability, or joy.

According to this definition, I wouldn’t so much think of nirvana in terms of the Middle Path as I would of ‘being there’ or 'having arrived" as I stated above or "heaven".

I think that the middle path is a state or a process of remaining balanced. But maybe I am not understanding it for what it is. Perhaps when one actually walks the middle path, there is no effort to remain balanced.

Thank you, Abstract.





 

___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Warriors are the most afraid. The most fearfull are most feared.   Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:39 pm

VaerosTanarg wrote:
Quote :
Is seeing something, for instance, as harmful, and fighting against that, the same as being fearful? Is awareness the same as fearfulness? Is having the ability to see into the future by being aware of the present and acting on that - is that the same as being fearful - albeit fear can be a tool for survival.

hear I am thinking of fear as being regardless of anxiety, and thus mostly concern of the future.

So awareness is not fearfulness, being aware of the future in a manner that leads to the desire of action for prevention...perhaps... Perhaps being fulfilled by the now one does not need so much of a future, and need not worry about it.

So perhaps you are thinking of fear in terms of an unproductive focusing on the future. But one may live in and feel fulfilled by the present moment and at the same time, have the awareness of knowing that one must ALSO plan for the future. There are those who live only in the future and miss the present and there are also those who live ONLY for the moment and see no future.
yes i would think that some non-nowness is necessary less what you are in is not really a moment anyways...a moment should be a line.. to be completely in the now would be like being a point on the time line... which in itself (a true monad) has no value...
Quote :

Quote :
The more people the more concerned for the future the more people taking action to change it and the more of that there is the harder it is to change it and the more suffering must be paid for what change of it is desired.
Can you please explain what you mean by this a bit more.
If you have 2 people concerned for the future and taking action then only so much change is occurring and thus for your action and predicting you only need to take into account those two people... but the more people doing this the more must be taken into account and thus the more chaotic it all becomes; the ability to predict the future in any reasonable manner (which is much of what consciousness is) is reduced the more action there is being taken to change the future...perhaps..

(which makes me wonder if the ability to be conscious of a species is reduced the larger it gets with more things trying to change the future...)

Quote :

Quote :
The fearless man may also be the unaware man or the fool. Just saying.
Does the 'peaceful' man give up his survival instinct?

If a person can be fulfilled in a moment now what need is there of survival into a future?
I think that I may intuit what you’re saying here. When we are fully living and flowing in the present moment, there is no thought of a future or a past either. Time stands still or even disappears. There is only the core self. Unless I am misunderstanding your meaning.
Plausibly... but who knows... I would think fear that such is not the case, is preventative of achieving that...


Quote :

Quote :
Suffering may also be the path or the fire by which we burn away our 'empty' and genuinely meaningless desires.

Absence of suffering comes only after one has suffered. Suffering is required. It is balance that should be sought.
Yes, I am with you on this. Suffering is a process that one must go through if one is to come out "on the other side" so to speak and it does require balance. But at the same time, it requires that nothing be forced nor sacrificed but only experienced in the moment.
yes, One should come to where they should be when they are ready... There is no need to seek Nirvana as some Buddhist writings suggest, rather it will come when it comes...

Quote :

Quote :
I thought nirvana was more an experience of wonderful and complete emptiness...a 'being there' sort of place.
But is more seen - or is 'enough' seen? But I understand what you mean by more - 'complete' is a far better word to me.

Seeing more of the infinite things in each single thing. be that thing physical or an idea.


As Blake said: “To see the world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wildflower, is to hold infinity in the palm of your hand and eternity in an hour.”
Now that is living in the 'complete' moment - having an experience "come to us" like that.
perhaps all that is needed is to realize that given that we live in an infinite universe any one thing is a compounding, a product, of the infinite... and any product of infinity (math) is itself infinite.

Quote :
Quote :

Complete emptiness is as complete absence wherein there is absence of absence and thus presence...

That’s sort of difficult to wrap my mind around. But basically, I think what you are saying here is that there can never be complete emptiness. Can you explain why?

if everything is absent then so is the very absence of things...

Given complete emptiness then everything is empty of even emptiness...

The complete emptiness has no 'thingness' such as to be present anywhere, non-existence cannot exist by its very nature, thus existence is all there can be...

Quote :
Quote :

Nothing is "complete" it is by limitation that anything "is".

I have many moments when I am feeling ‘complete’…no thought of any limitation…when time stands still and there is just the being there...perhaps there is not even that.

The incompleteness of things is the complete nature of things.... imperfection is perfection.

In other words limitation is the perfection. Yet we are so limited as to not truly-know anything including what our limitations are and as such it is best not to assume you are limited from doing anything.

Quote :

nir•va•na (nîr-vä n , n r-)
n.
1. often Nirvana
a. Buddhism The ineffable ultimate in which one has attained disinterested wisdom and compassion.
b. Hinduism Emancipation from ignorance and the extinction of all attachment.
2. An ideal condition of rest, harmony, stability, or joy.

According to this definition, I wouldn’t so much think of nirvana in terms of the Middle Path as I would of ‘being there’ or 'having arrived" as I stated above or "heaven".

I think that the middle path is a state or a process of remaining balanced. But maybe I am not understanding it for what it is. Perhaps when one actually walks the middle path, there is no effort to remain balanced.
Perhaps, if nirvana is a goal, then the middle path is a means to that goal. But not an achievement left behind when the goal is attained, but rather a state maintained.






 

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"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates
"Nature herself has imprinted on the minds of all the idea of God." -Cicero
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain an idea without necessarily believing it." -Aristotle
"I have gained this by philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law." -Aristotle
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PostSubject: Re: Warriors are the most afraid. The most fearfull are most feared.   Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:21 am

Our fallen friend had a lot of wisdom when it came to the nature of fear and desire. His notion here, of the fearful as the fearsome, is sound on a primal level that reminds of what Parodites described somewhere as the origins of humanity as a form of resisting and arresting all the new possibilities in violences such as cannimalism and (self) mutilation. This fearsomeness of mind itself is the reason why humans become fearsome. Violence is the first negotiating term of man with his mind.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Warriors are the most afraid. The most fearfull are most feared.   Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:44 am

If nirvana is buhdda in his old age, then chaos is what we seek if we aspire to it. If fearlessness is what waits at the end of the road, to respect that wisdom one must seek fear everywhere. Thus, when we reach our own old age, we plan to overcome Buhdda.

The power that Abstract found in Buhdda was great, he was fearsome. His writings are still full of fear.

 

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