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 Une Nouvelle Langue

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PostSubject: Une Nouvelle Langue   Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:51 pm

Oui, le francais est la langue la plus pure dans sa impurete. Il n'y a pas des facilites, ortographiques ou grammaticales, pas memes de purete en regard de la langue latine. Peut-etre, en tournant ailleurs pour une nouvelle langue, on doit premierement tourner vers elle.

La langue de la negativite vers la commodite, de l'amour dans la distance... Elle samblerait pouvoir dire choses qu'on ne peut pas meme sentir a l'interieur de l'esprit.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Une Nouvelle Langue   Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:57 pm

The Greek language is a good one to turn to: it ceaselessly generates new meaning, like a disembodied creative impulse; like a continuum rather than the atomic construction of Latin. If French says what you can't feel even inside your mind- then ancient Greek says what you can't think even inside your heart.

 

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A sik þau trûðu


Nisus ait, "Dine hunc ardorem mentibus addunt,
Euryale, an sua cuique deus fit dira cupido?"

Have the gods set this ruling passion in my heart,
or does each man's furious passion become his god?
- Virgil.


It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must
from time to time be present.-- Antonin Artaud
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PostSubject: Re: Une Nouvelle Langue   Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:25 pm

So what stops it? What stops french is latin. Its never-arriving end is, as you say, the atomism of latin. La fin qui n'arrive jamais.

Why Socrates?

 

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PostSubject: Re: Une Nouvelle Langue   Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:31 pm

Greek, especially in Plato, is an eternally youthful way of thinking: it stops itself, it never arrives to itself, it is aporetic and never reaches its own conclusion- like music. That's why they had to redefine love three times, and none of their definitions were adequate, rather it was philos, eros, or agape.

 

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A sik þau trûðu


Nisus ait, "Dine hunc ardorem mentibus addunt,
Euryale, an sua cuique deus fit dira cupido?"

Have the gods set this ruling passion in my heart,
or does each man's furious passion become his god?
- Virgil.


It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must
from time to time be present.-- Antonin Artaud
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PostSubject: Re: Une Nouvelle Langue   Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:57 pm

So greek needs to be fed. It needs material to wander upon. As the project was for one reason or another abandonned, a new language would need to abirth with the new material.

What is old about greek?

 

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PostSubject: Re: Une Nouvelle Langue   Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:29 pm

Indeed Greek needs new material constantly, from the outside- hence the Greeks colonized both Asian culture and Egyptian culture until both were exhausted.



 

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A sik þau trûðu


Nisus ait, "Dine hunc ardorem mentibus addunt,
Euryale, an sua cuique deus fit dira cupido?"

Have the gods set this ruling passion in my heart,
or does each man's furious passion become his god?
- Virgil.


It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must
from time to time be present.-- Antonin Artaud
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PostSubject: Re: Une Nouvelle Langue   Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:33 pm

Lol, then it had to turn inwards.

What do you think, does it have what it takes to implode?

 

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PostSubject: Re: Une Nouvelle Langue   Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:23 am

No, but I would not recommend you study Greek for positive education, rather negative. Greek revitalizes the literature of a time by unlearning its style and giving an era a fresh start and new point of departure: style emerged only late in Greece, as Euripides from Aeschylus, as a way of addressing one particular truth to one particular class of people, and the Romans perfected style: the early Greeks knew nothing about it and spoke as they thought, as if what they said applied equally to all men.

 

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A sik þau trûðu


Nisus ait, "Dine hunc ardorem mentibus addunt,
Euryale, an sua cuique deus fit dira cupido?"

Have the gods set this ruling passion in my heart,
or does each man's furious passion become his god?
- Virgil.


It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must
from time to time be present.-- Antonin Artaud
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PostSubject: Re: Une Nouvelle Langue   Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:27 am

It seems to me that style has gone from fresh to full to tired. Winter is the stage that's coming, preceding but not quite itself spring. The grounds for the new greeks will be set. What is old about ancient greek?

 

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PostSubject: Re: Une Nouvelle Langue   Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:34 am

If we model our language begetting will alligned with the dichotomy here created between these two tongues, then we are ... invincible, it seems to my heart.

Both languages are elegant previsely because of their roughness. The free flowing astute naivite of the early Greek is comparable to the  experienced innocence of modern French.

Both are proper soils, both give birth to meaning by mediating man to himself in ways that more object based speaks such as German and Latin can not. Greek and French share a love of curves in the sentences. Latin works with hard angles. Latin sentence is built, a Greek one erupts, and equally as French abounds in terms or composites of sounds that express the present moment of the subject rather than any relationship of object to object.

I was composing a mail to you in French yesterday pezer, because my mastery of it is limited i decided not to send it, but it was my initial way of telling you i am not "Fixed" in all senses you suspect. Imagine my surprise seeing your message here.

In French and Greek, danger is a source of abolute hilarity, merriment with the gods.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Une Nouvelle Langue   Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:48 am

With Greek, merely the form of the words, and the characters, is a magic that was lost in Latin and survives in a humble, eroded form in Bulgaria, Russia, more ruthlessly emotional worlds where beauty is the defenseless absolute value and man is a plaything of the gods, satisfying his own lust for the tragic and the true limits of self. There is no man so smilingly calm as a Russian in mortal hate. Their constitution is built on the fatalism that a man begets when he grows up in such raw beauties. The Greeks went much further and higher than the Russians, yet the latters pioneering outer space is an echo of Odysseus' battles with Poseidon, which reflects mans sure footing on his unsure grounds.

The Romans laughed like Germans laugh, with cruelty towards their prey, the Greeks laughed in pleasure at their own helplessness in their dealings with the Gods. Alexander recieved his fate from the madness of his mother, Caesar from the rationale of the State.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Une Nouvelle Langue   Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:01 am

An exclusive beauty. We will call russians and bulgarians Wagner.

What about Polish?

I compare what polish sounds like to me with what finnish and that other high nordic one sounds like: the one solid, the other loving, both light.

Nordic toungues are simplicity self-valuing. They almost seem like and end, an exit from the cycle that built a voluptuous igloo to take refuge. The toungue that will usher in. "Welcome! You are beautiful... Stay here a while."

 

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PostSubject: Re: Une Nouvelle Langue   Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:06 am

Wagner is Roman-German, he is a system builder, the epitome ideal ego, not a musician in the the immanent sense, 'he has no soul', but he projects one, offers a synthetic notion of Soul. Russian music is quite the opposite, it is entirely tribal-ecstatic sweepingly melancholic it only has soul and no system that fortifies the human except in his primordial vulnerability, which as Nietzsche knew is from where all of Apollonian culture, all of Europe was built. I meant simply to point to the idea the Russians are Greeks in more than one sense, they have inherited the alphabet and the modus of religion; the crooked forms that the Romans 'improved' so as to fashion the beginnings of the modern west, which is indeed a matter of developing style. As we know the Russians lack all forms of style except that which occurs to them in the moment. What they do with style they do with unparalleled bravado, what they do normally happens in a completely impenetrable honesty toward the moment.

I can understand Latin as working with negative and Greek as positive truth. The Romans demarcated reality, which ito isolate  things from their ground and to break the flux. Their temples are symbolic. The Greeks received reality in the order, more or less, in which it presented itself: their temples are beacons, fortresses against the night as a woman's delicacy is a fortress against the barbarism of the man approaching her. "Dare to rape this, mad one, that will be on you (and a sight to behold and to tell of for our entire lives)!" What is built in this way delights in being worn down by time, because this is its second building, its birth into the heart of the world, like becoming acquiring a form without one being imprinted on it.

Nordic languages are only just beginning to make sense to me, now that I discovered in full the elder Futhark. This also means my own language is finally beginning to make true sense to me. I can finally place it in its historic context, understand something of how the sounds emerged from life.

In any case, French and Greek are infinitely more sophisticated, having emerged both at the center of an originating world. France originated with the end of the Roman times as "a new love", a way in which the state-love was personalized, tribalized again, a way in which religions were made into mere fairy tales, and life began to erupt around them in deviant ways, finding its way back to the earth, the 'whore goddess', who is usually not allowed in great states, but who often forms the center of archaic myth and on which very badly hidden heaving bosom the French nation is built. This admittance of indecency, of mockery of the 'good gods' is quite unique among modern nations, but it parallels the attitude of the ancient Greeks.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Une Nouvelle Langue   Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:06 am

The secret to french is that it is cheapened by being spoken. It takes from latin that its soul is in writing.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Une Nouvelle Langue   Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:25 am

Vraiement, il'y a la dedans quelque chose de nouvellement vieille qui ne veule pas mourir. Pas parce qu'elle a quelque chose de nuveau a dire, mais parce qu'elle sait qu'elle n'est pas de ce monde et elle a quelques choses (there is a fantastic french word that goes here...) qu'elle veut lui dire.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Une Nouvelle Langue   Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:41 am

Pour moi le francais est la justification de la langue elle-meme, l'organe physique de lequel le son est né. On peut exprimer le coeur directment,  comme un part du corps, sans le traduire (et trahir) dans les termes de la logique - c'est pour ca je crois que le francais se pesentait ici comme point de depart d'une nouvelle langue, langue anti-menteuse.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Une Nouvelle Langue   Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:44 pm

Of course I don't read ancient Greek beyond being able to decipher school books and simple sentences from philosophers, but early on in school I got a taste for the way in which the Greeks present their world, which is very much with an open heart, and as Parodites says, that heart is the source of ideas, which very much behave as passions with them; In ancient Greek we get the impression that thought is a matter of the heart, which is why it is all so very seriously moral and pertinent to the highest human questioning. In Rome, the passions and the mind grew further apart from each other, and in this sense the way was paved for the metaphysics of immanence.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Une Nouvelle Langue   Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:09 pm

If ancient Greek died, it is because it exhausted affirming by questioning, Socrates representing the pathology of the spiral as it grew out of space... Latin gave the possibility to look inside, and eventually the possibility of finding one's own space within exhausted space, to give dimentionality to questioning on terms fit for a people who, having run out of new great things to question, began to pull the greatnes towards them until, seeing it close, they know what it is about it that they want.

Perhaps, magnificently represented by their temples, courage was permitted in looking at attainable dimensions. "Know thyself." Perhaps challenging those Greeks to answer "I know not greatness."

 

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