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 Inter-penetration of values-spheres (Self-Valuing Ethics 101)

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PostSubject: Inter-penetration of values-spheres (Self-Valuing Ethics 101)   Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:06 am

People care about each other to the degree that the are connected to each other; we always care more about our own families and friends than strangers, which doesn't mean that we don't care or cannot be made to care about strangers, but once we start to interact and know them they are already inter-penetrating our own values-sphere, and therefore aren't "strangers" anymore. We also naturally rank most of our relationships in terms of how much value we give to them and for how much value we get from them.

This point has been attacked particularly by leftist philosophy as a kind of subtle capitalization -- namely that the fact that we care more about certain people than others is supposedly a kind of irrationality or flaw in our psyche, or the cause of the ills in the world, or the fact that we spend $50,000 on a new car while we could have bought a $10,000 used car and given the difference to charity, or that we would save our own child first before saving another child, etc. Sure, that giving to charity would have been great, and arguably there are many better uses to put $40,000 to than a new car, however that isn't even the point. The point is simply that the way it works ontologically is how self-valuing describes the fact that beings interact by inter-penetrating each other's values-spheres, and the interactive middle-spaces between are literally the feelings, values, motives, ideas, actions etc. that beings do/have/are.

When I am around another person and they make me feel good, that "good feeling" is literally the inter-penetrating valuation; it is as Fixed Cross said, that beings always add value around themselves, they give value, and the extent to which they do this is the value that others have for them. This isn't some kind of capitalist principle or "enlightened self-interest", this is much deeper, this is pure fucking existential ontic principle. The positive feeling of value and caring/concern we have for others is exactly and literally the giving-of-value of others' own self-valuing, and nothing besides. It isn't simply that our feelings and actions and inclinations are reflecting the exchanges of values, they are those values.

It isn't a fallacy or a flaw that we aren't able to care as much for some people as we do for others, it would be existentially, ontologically impossible for a being to care equally for all other beings; this naturally exposes a flaw within Buddhism, or at least a potential flaw, since Buddhism wants to push self-valuing universally and equally to all beings, but then again maybe the Buddhist method is a kind of edification system for a self-valuing and is actually 'stretching' it somehow or making it larger, more accurate, or whatever... I honestly don't know. But right now I am not interested in Buddhism.

Feelings, care and concern, and compassion are the inter-penetration of values mutually into two or more self-valuing's values-spheres; the neurophysiological, hormonal etc. aspects of our bodies and brains that activate and work while we have these feelings, these values activities, are simply transfer mechanisms for the values; the biological aspect derives from and as the values aspect, the logic is always central and fundamental, biology flows from logic and is simply a container for logic, for values. A "physical biological system" is simply a kind of secondary expression of values, of values-in-action, of mutualism of values, of transfer and engagement of values, all of which means simply that the pure logic is the primary domain, always. The "subjectivity" of these physical systems experiencing themselves, or what we sometimes call consciousness, is literally the self-experience of values as pertain to (a) self-valuing.


The other angle is that it represents a limitation or weakness of a self-valuing to have a narrow values-sphere and to have a 'dense' mutuality of values-penetration with other self-valuings such that it cannot really act or enact care, concern, compassion or feelings for others. We might call that sociopathy or simply "burnout", or nihilism or whatever else label we want, but the underlying reality is that every self-valuing has a ratio of its size to its density, also a separate ratio of its actual size to its potential size and another for its actual density to its potential density, and these measures also vary from location and categorical type within the values-spheres and values-interactions, and are also affected by the situations in which self-valuings find themselves. Bottom line: it is very complex, and there is added value in expanding one's self-valuing to encompass more than is typical for it, and there is loss of value in closing off the values-sphere and making it smaller or more dense. The 'sphere' is literally the values themselves, being is literally the values and nothing besides, likewise the feelings we have, the ideas, the things we say or believe, our motives, what we write, how we act, all of it is literally the values and nothing besides, as the "expressing" of them in a particular spatial-temporal structure that includes the individual, the world, and everything in between. But alongside the weakness of an over-dense values-sphere cutting off potential interactions is that the density of the sphere is, again, literally the values themselves, so we can't simply dilute the sphere too much because the sphere is the values, and the values are the sphere; there is added value in having a less dense sphere, but bring down the density too much and you literally begin to stop existing.

 

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"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

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PostSubject: Re: Inter-penetration of values-spheres (Self-Valuing Ethics 101)   Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:16 am

Ok I am slightly interested in Buddhism, because of how it overlaps in this tendency to stretch self-valuing (perhaps attempting to impossibly stretch it) with how leftist-liberalism type views try to do the same thing, at least ostensibly, namely in how we are supposed to feel some kind of guilty compulsion to care for strangers we've never met as much or even more than we care for the people in our own lives. There is a shaming aspect to caring/concern for oneself and ranking naturally one's care/concern according to the location in our own self-valuing values-spheres in which other self-valuings (other people) and shared values exist. This generates an ethical proposition that self-interest is flawed or unethical, or simply inadequate ethically. The opposite view is generated as a reaction against this, and we find people like Ayn Rand and many others trying to reify self-interest into an absolute principle, trying to build an entire philosophical system around it.

Thank fuck that self-valuing has come along and with it Value Ontology and we are free from that madness of "enlightened self-interest" nonsense that has plagued philosophy (and by extension, politics and our modern human psyches) for so long. The ideas are useful for introductions into this way of thinking that VO provides, that real philosophy begins to unlock, either as VO or for example as Parodites' philosophy, but otherwise the self-interest crowd of "objectivists" are simply naive, which means that their 'philosophies' are still almost nothing more than expressions of their own personal psychological needs. Likewise self-valuing and VO can actually provide a cure and answer for the leftist paradigm that falsely believes that we must care equally for everyone and everything otherwise we are merely inhuman unethical capitalists. Yes, "inhuman unethical capitalism" exists but this isn't what it means, it doesn't simply mean the fact that we make values declarations and value differently. Even if we could somehow value everything equally, and we cannot, we would simply cease to exist at that point, we would literally become a direct extension of other larger and foreign values-systems such as the world at large which would make of us an empty appendage -- we would no longer be alive. Life is values, having and being values, which means the same thing. So from the perspective of ethics we need to keep developing VO and re-interpreting (revaluating) things, and in particular problems and seeming paradoxes or flaws, from the perspective of the logical principle of self-valuing.

 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

Peace. War. Love. Wordz




“Grow a pair, preferably between your eyes.” -Styxhexenhammer666

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PostSubject: Re: Inter-penetration of values-spheres (Self-Valuing Ethics 101)   Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:47 pm

First principle: Freedom. Freedom from the self-valuing angle means freedom to self-value, which means placing first and foremost the conditions for self-valuing as most important. Self-determination is an idea connected to self-valuing, heavily focused on the prominence of the individual. National sovereignty is another connected idea. Freedom essentially means prioritizing the individual first and groups second; individual people should be judged and treated first as individuals and second as members of groups. This same idea holds in terms of nation-states and cultures: shares relations among groups are predicated on the individual entity status of the relatants, of their coherent self-valuing.

Conservative ideology is focused on one side of the self-valuing equation: the side of the individual against the conditions for the individual, the side of prioritizing extent individual concerns over more subtle or diffuse (in space or time) conditions that secure that individuality.

Liberal ideology is focused on the other side of the self-valuing equation: the side of the conditions for individuality, the diffuse elements across situations in space or time, the underlying incentives and causes behind first the formation and second the self-regulation of the individual.

Self-valuing recognition in terms of political ideology and thought has split along these two lines, of self and its contexts, and of focused logic and diffuse logic respectively to conservative and liberal. Liberals see selves as derivatives of the society-groups, conservatives see the society-groups as derivatives of the selves. Both views are correct.

Freedom should always be upheld as a supreme value. There is freedom for and freedom from, another split along existentially-crystallizing lines. Both freedoms are relevant: freedom to self-value as one is and to the maximum extent of that which one is and may be, and freedom from the conditions and influences-factors that would prevent one from self-valuing as one is. Freedom to be oneself depends on existing freedoms from the conditions that would prevent being oneself (such conditions as war, poverty, slavery, disease, all act in the extreme as impediments to being oneself), just as freedom from those adverse conditions depends on the prior established existence of the freedom to be that is self-valuing.


Next principle: the natural conflict of different self-valuings (of freedom-to's) produces eddies and currents in the shared values-spaces ("worlds") between self-valuings (I.e. freedom-from's are crafted and refined by virtue of the good and natural (necessary) conflicts over values between different self-valuings).

 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

Peace. War. Love. Wordz




“Grow a pair, preferably between your eyes.” -Styxhexenhammer666

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PostSubject: Re: Inter-penetration of values-spheres (Self-Valuing Ethics 101)   Sat Jul 02, 2016 9:06 am

When we interact with others and are open to them, we experience their values and self-valuing penetrating into our own values and self-valuing. This is literal and "physical" penetration. Some people are able to sustain a large amount of the values and self-valuing of others in their own values-sphere, and act as a kind of potentiation and catalyst for the self-valuing of others; then there are other people who are able to sustain only a small amount of other people's values and self-valuing in this way. The world is created because people share values and share valuing; people who share and sustain more values socially in this way create more of the world.

We all "feed off" the shared values and shared valuing provided by others (by the world). Physicals interaction is the manifestation of the approach of values. People are rare who can more fully and joyously take up the values and valuing of others and act as a "small world" for them, while it is most common that people are trying to find others to use for the sake of stabilizing their own self-valuing and of gaining reassurances on their own values. Gaining joy from values-interactions is a secondary effect, the joy is another value-expression and not the goal or purpose of the values-interactions; joy and energy signify a successful values-act. A successful values-act can be either the success of values on the terms of one's own self-valuing or the success of values on the terms of another self-valuing.

The extremes of love and grief reveal how deeply interwoven self-valuings are. We learn to value because others value us, as in Kohut's object relations theory, the fact that others value us is imprinted upon us as children and we implicitly learn how to value, we learn how to value in the same or similar ways as others around us value; thus self-valuings tend toward similarities to the extent they share proximity in space and time. The tendency toward similarity of proximal self-valuings is the fact that individual self-valuing is embedded in larger values-constructs and valuing-constructs beyond itself and requires those constructs to achieve its own self-valuing. Freedom is the existential condition of a self-valuing reaching the threshold of its own dependency on such constructs and gaining the capacity for pushing beyond that threshold, to finally break away into its own 'world'. This is what teenagers and young adults are doing, they are learning about freedom.

From that point onward freedom replaces shared dependency as the primary and fundamental self-valuing self-relational principle. What then is love, either romantic or platonic? Love is not a recapitulation of the shared dependency of childhood and youth, but a recreation of a world upon the foundation of freedom: love is not the basis of the worlds of shared dependency, the basis of those worlds is simply need and utility-transfer, while the basis of worlds of freedom (post-dependency, post-childhood) is simply what we call love, in all its many forms. Romantic, aesthetic, intellectual, platonic, there are many forms of love because there are many values-fields that are able to act as potentiations for the principle of freedom to a post-dependency self-valuing. Thus the ethics of self-valuing shifts as childhood is left behind and adulthood is gained: there are two essentially different ethics of self-valuing, each based on the requirements of self-valuing either as dependency or won freedom. Self-valuing tends toward freedom at all times and therefore freedom is its most essential philosophical condition, but each threshold of freedom rests upon the successful completion of prior thresholds, which means that many self-valuings stall at certain stages upon the continuum of freedom. Childhood is simply the requirement manifest as space and time for many lower thresholds upon that continuum to be gradually worked through in order to begin ascending the continuum in any significant manner.

 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

Peace. War. Love. Wordz




“Grow a pair, preferably between your eyes.” -Styxhexenhammer666

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PostSubject: Re: Inter-penetration of values-spheres (Self-Valuing Ethics 101)   Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:28 am

This is a momentous project, the manifestation of a psychological cosmos, as it were, derived synthetically from self-valuing logic and a wealth of experience with humanity.
There is no categorization here a priori, we will have to embark on a fluid path that may or may not in the end collapse into a periodic table of sorts, that gives us exact predictability.
But no such perfection is necessary to revolutionize the art of psychology; to recognize the points you make in these posts should be sufficient to a reader who seeks to relinquish arbitrary categories and boundaries and philosophize himself dirty with experience.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
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