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 Presumption and Indecision

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James S Saint
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PostSubject: Presumption and Indecision   Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:36 pm

In the 60's I was told that no one knows why a gyroscope really works. I thought, "That is silly, even I know why a gyroscope works" and proceeded to explain in exact detail why it does what it does. Of course later, I discovered that it was merely that no one "is to know" why a gyroscope works, an issue of old WW2 military secrets.

In the early 70's I was told that there is an energy crisis because of the shortage of oil. After much pondering, I revealed a design for a small mechanism yielding clean and free energy, only to find that there "is to be" an energy crisis for sake of international stratagems.

In the mid 80's I realized a means to give any AI system its own legitimate emotions, only to realize how foolish such an act would be.

In the 90's I displayed how the most hateful and hardened person can be transformed into a person who gives with a smile to strangers expecting nothing in return, only to find that hatefulness is a social engineering tool to be maintained for sake of world domination contests.

In the 2000's I took on the unified field theory riddle as it seemed to be the last riddle to solve that perhaps actually hadn't been solved, but then, perhaps not, who can tell anymore. Just recently I managed to prove my theory to the point of being an indisputable law, not merely a theory.

I was going to leave that as my last donation of intellectual pursuit as its proof opens up a wide range of further study to keep Science and social engineers busy for years ironing out the minutia, developing new weapons, and ensuring their world domination lust, but then I remembered an old issue that had stumped me years ago, an issue related to the very core of life and living, an issue perhaps worth one more mind scrambling effort to resolve.

Presumption is the act of taking a step before ensuring its footing, taking a shot before ensuring the aim. Presumption is at the very core of every error the mind ever makes, every belief accepted without careful study, every conclusion drawn without careful examination for validity, every reach made for what wasn't within reach. Without the act of presumption, the mind can make no error.

But to never presume and always take the time to verify every thought before any action, is a truly impossible task. Thus risks must be taken, but to what degree? Passions increase the presumptions and thus lead to all of what has been called "sin". And once again serve social engineers in their quest to control all life by ensuring its weakness.

Avoid both indecision and also presumption, a seemingly impossible task, yet a required task at the very root of life; division of need at the very core, corruption of purpose before purpose is even considered.

How does one decide when to think and when to act. By what formula would the highest probability of personal good judgment be assured despite the unavoidable errors.

I can conceive of how a group ensures the best outcome of when to stop thinking and when to act and an individual is merely a society in a sack, but the mind is not so easy to instruct or formulate into a predesigned order. Thus even though the process might be valid, the practical application might be another story and without practical application, what is the need of a design.

By what holistic means would one ensure the timing of his actions versus his contemplation?

Once that is resolved, there is nothing else to resolve.

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PostSubject: Re: Presumption and Indecision   Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:35 pm

There must be guess work involved, one cannot know before one knows, which is to say has already figured out. What you call presumption I would perhaps call poor guessing, or largely unconscious-automatic guess work. Hypothesis testing involves... a hypothesis, a risk. The test is a further risk. So perhaps what we need to do is elevate this entire process of decision-making cognition into the more conscious/aware realm/s of the mind. To propose a schema for just how to conceptualize decision-making with regard to postulate and test, risk and reward, which would necessarily involve a lot of prior understanding of the contexts in which such things occur.

To replace presumption, unconscious guessing and risking, with (postsumption?) something more active, more intentionally willed, more fully known and conscious. We can never get rid of the guess or the risk - rather as Nietzsche says we must learn to guess and risk even more! But we can certainly elevate the methods and manners in which this occurs, toward the end of minimizing bad/harmful/ineffective guessing.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Presumption and Indecision   Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:39 pm

I would also like to point out that Parodites has already noted that action necessarily effaces reason, that to act is necessarily to interrupt the process of reasoning, and this of course calls reason itself into question with respect to the means and extent to which it supposedly informs our actions. Which is to say, perhaps precisely what you are getting at here: by what means does action supervene upon reason, and how/why? Can this medial interruption and intervention be cognized within the reasoning faculty, and what would this imply?

 

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"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

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PostSubject: Re: Presumption and Indecision   Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:03 am

Think of in terms of your life being a timed chess game.

But before you begin, you want to ensure that you understand how to reduce the risk of choosing your move before you have had the time to work through the permutations of the game. What strategy would ensure that you are taking the least risk in the least time with each decision to move?

How does one decide how much time is too much to take before he even knows what he might discover by taking more time to discover it?

To formalize the whole matter, one would assign a weighted variable to both time consumed and moves made. Then derive a relational formula between the time variable and the move variables. And then monitor for maxima and minima (the derivatives). The unfettered mind does this process automatically. The skill of "Kung Fu" is precisely that art.

But as I said, the theory isn't really the issue, but the practice. How much time should one devote to learning Kung Fu? And since the teaching of Kung Fu is not precise (lacking at minimum in momentum), the whole notion of learning it comes into question. Of course, I am merely using Kung Fu as a generic allegorical object of training or practice. The ideal art to learn would be a better art than traditional Kung Fu.

Increasing the momentum of ones life is vital. It is literally no more than that momentum that keeps a person alive. That momentum is made of the firmness of decisions (the "mass") and the speed of the responses (the "velocity"). The momentum is quite literally their multiple. Your life is the result.

The firmness of decisions depends on how well they are verified. Verification ensures there is no need for them to be changed (thus more "massive/firm"). But that verification requires more time and thus slower response, "think before you act", "measure twice, cut once", and so on. There is definite wisdom in verifying before acting.


...I'm just mulling over some thoughts on the issue scratch

..and all too familiar with how to disrupt the process. Neutral


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PostSubject: Re: Presumption and Indecision   Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:37 am

Thinking in terms of the formula for sentient life:

Clarification, verification, and memorization/documentation aimed toward the inspiration of the momentum of the harmony of those and applied to the mental, medical, and military realms of a life constitutes the formula for the "holy life".

I guess the question is how to clarify, verify and remember which of those actions to take in what order so as to inspire the momentum (least risk).

---------

Btw, perception of hope and threat is what inspires that momentum. Sooo.. substituting into the equation...

"I guess the question is how to clarify, verify and remember which of those actions to take in what order so as to {perceive the hopes and threats} involved in the harmony of the process of doing so."

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PostSubject: Re: Presumption and Indecision   Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:59 am

Capable wrote:
by what means does action supervene upon reason, and how/why? Can this medial interruption and intervention be cognized within the reasoning faculty, and what would this imply?
Taking action diverts attention and alters the circumstances that the reasoning was trying to organize before action was to be taken. It takes place due to the perception and inspiration that "time for thinking has run out". Such a thought rises from deep within associated to fear and anxiety ("something must be done - NOW!"). Unfortunately it is most often medically inspired rather than psychologically.

Once that switch has been thrown, the mind loses authority to inhibit responses. Serious training can substantially decrease the throwing of that switch and thus maintain the authority to reason before action. That is the entire focus of the Buddhistic arts. If not for medical/physiological neurological intervention none of it would be a big issue.
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PostSubject: Re: Presumption and Indecision   Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:48 am

I guess I should mention that it isn't actually the mere momentum that is the goal, but its the integral sum of the momentum (making it even worse of a problem). The integral sum involves the probability of future progress and thus makes calculating the next decision take more time and demand more information. Both lead to a hesitation in response which eventually gets overridden by the need to act. Too much practice getting overridden causes a loss of will power to accomplish anything based of cognitive reasoning.
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PostSubject: Re: Presumption and Indecision   Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:15 pm

This gets to that issue of what to do when you don't know what to do.
Also related to what to do in your idle/wait time.

Seeking what to do is an issue of the attempt to gain information which comes either by outside source or inner analysis (usually leading to worry or fantasy but on occasion leading to analytical resolve).

Seeking more information from outside is an activity under the heading of "clarification" (of situation). Thus targeted reading seems appropriate as a "to do next" step rather than merely pondering. But how much for how long is still the question.
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PostSubject: Re: Presumption and Indecision   Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:43 am

On presumption and decision making, I wonder of you could state your understanding of the difference between these two ways of grounding action.

- intuitive sensing of the right action at the right moment, where type of action and right moment are non- or super-conceptually and instantaneously apprehended together, as an impulse to act.
- rational clarification of the right action at the right moment - where both type of action and right moment are separately objectified, and brought together as a premeditation of a course of action.

You brought up the term "kung fu". This has much to do with cultivating in oneself the means/sensitivity/grounding/awareness required for making non-rational, at least not conceptually based decisions.

Here, conceptuality is invested in the training, in the forms aimed to prepare man to act correctly in all possible circumstances. A "right conceptuality" is 'bred into the organism', ensuring that, when the moment of decision comes, he can only act from a right/correct/suitable interpretation of whatever it is that presents itself in that moment. "right" determined by the terms of clarified self-valuing. "kung fu" means "good work" also translatable as "right action".


 

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PostSubject: Re: Presumption and Indecision   Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:07 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
On presumption and decision making, I wonder of you could state your understanding of the difference between these two ways of grounding action.
Indecision is the waiting before action is taken in hopes of a resolve between two possible actions.
Presumption is acting before any resolve of multiple options is sought.

Both states are an endangerment. The presumptuous act tempts error in the action. Indecision tempts error in the inaction.

The art of Kung Fu is one of harmonizing all levels of decision making; instinctive, emotional, cognitive; or unconscious, subconscious, and conscious. Once these levels of decision making have been so intertwined as to become one, the maximum inner harmony has been arranged, the maximum "Chi" and efficacy of effort/spirit. The objective being merely to ensure that as much awareness and knowledge as possible is always being considered in each small action; the ideal state to maintain.

The antagonist to such a state in Christian culture was once conceptualized as the "demon", meaning any effort/spirit that works against the union of the whole, of the self-harmony, the "holy". In the Christian paradigm, the demons inhabit the Christian Hell or Jewish Gehenna wherein fiery conflict and division of every effort is maintained so as to utterly destroy life as it is eventually consigned to the abyss. The demon is merely the product of inconsiderate presumptive action or decisions. One of which is the act or decision of indecision.

We could get into how to create such things, but perhaps another time. Currently I am more focused on the precise formula for their expulsion ("exorcism") and prevention ("chalice").

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PostSubject: Re: Presumption and Indecision   Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:42 pm

FC, I think you use the word "rational" a little differently than I. I don't constrict it so much to mere cognitive function.

On a fundamental level, there are always at least 3 rationales. You might have one instinctive urging to move forward, another urging you to move back, and a third urging that you do neither.

Each of the 3 urgings are formed with purpose in mind, but each urgling mind is separate and can only see from its own perspective. A decision making process is formed when the 3 basic options are considered with that same purpose in a slightly higher mind.

It can be likened to 3 voters; a farmer, a business man, and a house wife. They each write to their congressman. The farmer says "we need to stay as we are on this issue". The business man says, "we need to progress on this issue." and the house wife says, "we need to retreat away from this issue."

The job of the congressman is to weigh the significance of all of the votes and carry that choice to the next higher level. In a simple case, it is merely a measure of the number of voters involved. In this case, there are an even number of voters for each option. The congressman can merely add his own vote such as to break the tie, but if he was one of those 3 himself and is altruistic, he has a problem.

If he proceeds to congress, he must make a choice. If he doesn't proceed to congress, he has made a choice to abstain which inherently favors the farmer in this case unless there is an imbalance of other congressmen on the next level. So the congressmen has a much larger puzzle to solve than merely counting votes if the votes happen to be even. He must decide what is going to happen if he abstains because by abstaining, a choice will be made by others and that choice will favor one of the 3 voters in his district.

If the issue wasn't of great importance, no clear and present danger was apparent, abstaining from decision is the easy choice to take. In effect, by abstaining the congressmen is saying, "We don't know", a valid position to take and recognize. And that is the position of "Indecision" even on an instinctive, neurological level.

If the congressmen is very influential, he will end up causing an odd situation. For him to properly represent his constituency, he must represent to congress the position of not being able to decide. In effect, he must attempt to get the other congressmen to agree that "we cannot know", regardless of their own voters. And there is where the first level of problem arises.

Being in the position of an even vote and thus making the decision to take the non-active choice isn't really the problem. That state should be avoided, but it can't always be avoided and thus the chance must be taken. The real issue is when one poorly constructed decision such as that state creates in one district is then propagated into congress wherein other district representatives had more clear decisions.

Due to any extra influence any one representative might have obtained, by whatever means, the subtle and often more correct voices that would have been able to make the decision will not be heard and the indecision propagates up into higher levels which might in term have the same situation.

The issue is really one of ensuring that every whisper is actually heard in the balance and not overwhelmed by extra influence especially by an indecisive participant.

"If you don't have a solution for the problem, you don't have a vote concerning it."

Unfortunately the US Congress wasn't designed that wisely. And unfortunately, the brain isn't designed such as to prevent that scenario within itself either. Kung Fu teaches that on a training, conditioning, fundamental engram level - "wait for the whisper."



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PostSubject: Re: Presumption and Indecision   Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:03 pm

Just thinking out loud again a little on this subject...

This topic relates very directly with the issue of the anxiety of worry and insecurity. The mind uses the discomfort of anxiety in an effort to inspire focus on what it perceives as an important issue to resolve. Societies go to great lengths to come up with ways to handle that issue; false hopes, medications, inspirational quips, religions, psychological and psychiatric visitations, and so on, but the truth is that they are also the ones instilling it. Society is actually the only serious source for anxiety which it uses so as to help dominate and establish socialistic order, a blind and pointless endeavor but none the less sought and quickly and cleverly defended.

The methods for defending against society are easily categorized and using society, easily formed into very profitable tools and endeavors for society and its individuals. The problem of course is trying to defend against society at the same time as utilizing it. Many religious customs are in place solely for such a purpose. Once free from society's influence, the formula becomes pretty simple. But until then, it is a bit like trying to form the proverbial snowball in Hell.

While I was developing the UFT solution, it occurred to me that once I could see exactly how particles formed, through conceptual analogy, I could then easily apply it to economics, psychological, and social structure. Unfortunately when it finally dawned on me exactly how and why particles do form, the analog association became rather difficult for me to assemble. With the UFT, I could write a computer program to help both prove the fundamental theory as well as develop its perfection. I doubt that such a method could be used again to do the same with a resolution for Presumption and Indecision, although not totally dismissible.

Hmm..


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PostSubject: Re: Presumption and Indecision   Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:40 am

James S Saint wrote:
In the 60's I was told that no one knows why a gyroscope really works. I thought, "That is silly, even I know why a gyroscope works" and proceeded to explain in exact detail why it does what it does. Of course later, I discovered that it was merely that no one "is to know" why a gyroscope works, an issue of old WW2 military secrets.

In the early 70's I was told that there is an energy crisis because of the shortage of oil. After much pondering, I revealed a design for a small mechanism yielding clean and free energy, only to find that there "is to be" an energy crisis for sake of international stratagems.

In the mid 80's I realized a means to give any AI system its own legitimate emotions, only to realize how foolish such an act would be.

In the 90's I displayed how the most hateful and hardened person can be transformed into a person who gives with a smile to strangers expecting nothing in return, only to find that hatefulness is a social engineering tool to be maintained for sake of world domination contests.

In the 2000's I took on the unified field theory riddle as it seemed to be the last riddle to solve that perhaps actually hadn't been solved, but then, perhaps not, who can tell anymore. Just recently I managed to prove my theory to the point of being an indisputable law, not merely a theory.

I was going to leave that as my last donation of intellectual pursuit as its proof opens up a wide range of further study to keep Science and social engineers busy for years ironing out the minutia, developing new weapons, and ensuring their world domination lust, but then I remembered an old issue that had stumped me years ago, an issue related to the very core of life and living, an issue perhaps worth one more mind scrambling effort to resolve.

Presumption is the act of taking a step before ensuring its footing, taking a shot before ensuring the aim. Presumption is at the very core of every error the mind ever makes, every belief accepted without careful study, every conclusion drawn without careful examination for validity, every reach made for what wasn't within reach. Without the act of presumption, the mind can make no error.

But to never presume and always take the time to verify every thought before any action, is a truly impossible task. Thus risks must be taken, but to what degree? Passions increase the presumptions and thus lead to all of what has been called "sin". And once again serve social engineers in their quest to control all life by ensuring its weakness.

Avoid both indecision and also presumption, a seemingly impossible task, yet a required task at the very root of life; division of need at the very core, corruption of purpose before purpose is even considered.

How does one decide when to think and when to act. By what formula would the highest probability of personal good judgment be assured despite the unavoidable errors.

I can conceive of how a group ensures the best outcome of when to stop thinking and when to act and an individual is merely a society in a sack, but the mind is not so easy to instruct or formulate into a predesigned order. Thus even though the process might be valid, the practical application might be another story and without practical application, what is the need of a design.

By what holistic means would one ensure the timing of his actions versus his contemplation?

Once that is resolved, there is nothing else to resolve.

What was the clean energy mechanism you designed?

I would think that you should definitely consider what will be done with a thing given to the people (an idea or understanding): what will they make what will they do. and would it be better that such be postponed until other understandings are seen...

You can only tell parts of the truth at a time, generally, and if you tell the wrong part of the truth at the wrong time people can be mislead.
The order of education is by all means relevant.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Presumption and Indecision   Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:17 am

Abstract wrote:

What was the clean energy mechanism you designed?
It was (and is) a very small device, microscopic in fact, that fundamentally rectifies the chaotic motion of gaseous molecules. It basically freezes the air surrounding the device while aiming that energy into a mechanical motion. If used in an automobile, the device merely returns the energy to the atmosphere as the car travels. Not having access at the time to microscopic tools required, much like the UFT project, I modeled the gaseous activity in a program (using C at the time) and proved its validity. I found out later that very many people had actually come up with many ways to supply a great deal of free or near free energy, but I never found one as clean and versatile as mine.

Abstract wrote:
I would think that you should definitely consider what will be done with a thing given to the people (an idea or understanding): what will they make what will they do. and would it be better that such be postponed until other understandings are seen...

You can only tell parts of the truth at a time, generally, and if you tell the wrong part of the truth at the wrong time people can be mislead.
The order of education is by all means relevant.
Oh very true and my highest concern. The problem is that such thoughts cannot be merely ignored as they will merely be thought up by someone else, assuming they haven't been already. The decision becomes one of attempting to guide the learning or leave it up to an unknown whoever, merely chance. So the issue becomes one of being "the responsible scientist". But that entails the inherent position of a presumptuous manipulation of what other people know through omission - not a position that I care to hold. But then I see no one qualified by my rather high standards for such a task either.
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PostSubject: Re: Presumption and Indecision   Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:23 am

Well given no other choice it can be better to let another discover it sometime later , even though that might not quite be the best time, it may nonetheless be better.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Presumption and Indecision   Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:13 am

Abstract wrote:
Well given no other choice it can be better to let another discover it sometime later , even though that might not quite be the best time, it may nonetheless be better.
Yeah and it may be far worse. So what's your point? Cool


..at least I KNOW that I have no world domination lust.
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PostSubject: Re: Presumption and Indecision   Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:10 pm

Well it may be assuming you have no capacity for predicting future events anything is just as likely as something else...(but we can all predict the future ...just not perfectly...we guess...) but generally when it comes to knowledge people are more capable of dealing with it the older they get...

Not that I am saying you should wait...

 

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PostSubject: Re: Presumption and Indecision   Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:24 am

Waiting is an inherent part of the system of society. I really don't need to try at it. And I don't really expect to have all that much more time anyway.


I do remember from last time I approached this problem through a systematic process of problem solving, I resolved that an entity that has lost substantial decision making control must reestablish that control through external means. I dubbed that field of concern, "TSL", "Temporary Self Locks".

The TSL as a product offers a substantial business opportunity due to its variety. The problem is that society doesn't want individuals to have such self-control, else they cannot be controlled remotely.

An example of a TSL would be a timer on a refrigerator for someone trying to gain control over their diet. Another is having a money manager with a degree of authority such as to limit ones ability to spend. The best TSLs involve other people so that rational decisions can be made concerning emergency situations. Joining the Army is a common TSL.

An aspect of TSL usage is that it is not good enough to merely block yourself from doing what you didn't want to do, such as not over eating, but to also temporarily lock yourself into occupying your time doing something befitting.
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PostSubject: Re: Presumption and Indecision   Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:47 am

And it just occurred to me that what might be the most befitting occupation would be creating the TSLs.

The presence of more TSL options inherently reduces the susceptibility for loss of inner harmony, discipline, "self-control".

That preoccupation answers the issue of what to do when one doesn't know what to do or their "idle time" (as opposed to playing video games). Forced waiting or indecision creates the bed for the decision making problem; "Idle hands are the devil's tools".

The utilization of TSLs would inherently slow the presumption process as well. Usually presumption is merely an issue of the time allowed for the natural thinking process. Presumption is produced by impatience or urgency.

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PostSubject: Re: Presumption and Indecision   Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:34 am

I am thinking that this issue is going to end up being merely a formulating of a search process, which is what the inherent worry process is.

The destroy the worry process without killing the intent of it is to "drive a stake through its heart". That is an issue of clarification of options or conceptualizing areas to search, establishing a method of search for each area, and then processing the search. If the searching was clearly completed, the "heart" of the search engine known as worry stops due to being clearly completed.

Unfortunately the best search processes are based on probabilities. When in a hurry, the first place to search is the one with the highest probability of having the item being search out. That rule is usually circumvented by the discomfort of the task either from the concern of having to concentrate or from the situation of the highest probable area being one that requires some difficulty or discomfort in order to search through; "most probably my wallet dropped down to the bottom of that filled dumpster".

What is being sought most fundamentally is the very purpose of life, the means to maintain self-harmony, "self-preservation". Searching for TSLs would involve such a goal. The first TSL to seek out would be the one that temporarily locks oneself into the searching itself, thereby removing the concern as to what to do next; the very seed of anxiety.

The search for self-harmonizing TSLs.

Through practice, a conditioning automatically occurs. That conditioning would inherently be devoid of presumption, indecision, worry, or anxiety. As the practice continued, assuming a degree of success in the finding, the inner harmony sought by the Buddhist builds automatically without further designed intent. Again, assuming actual success in appropriating sufficient TSLs, the final state of oneness of the mind and harmony of the levels of decision making, instinctive, emotional, and cognitive is achieved. The person becomes "holy" regardless of where they started. The demons are exorcised.

1) Clarify exactly what is being sought
2) Conceptualize all possible areas to search
3) Identify a means of searching for each area.
4) Choose the order of areas to search
5) Exercise the search.
6) Document/remember the stage of the process
7) Verify the conclusions involved.

A) Clarify Purpose/Goal
B) Analyze/Discern Situation
C) Influence Situation
D) Record Progress
E) Verify Situation
F) Loop Eternally Cool

The Hebrews referred to it as "the flower of life", a recursive process of living.
Of course, they had a less precise but more appealing breakdown
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James S Saint
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PostSubject: Re: Presumption and Indecision   Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:07 am

As the process of self-harmonizing life is practiced, the repetition creates a firming and automating of the process. That part constitutes the "mass" component of momentum. The process of living itself is affirmed.

The other component of the necessary momentum involves the speed of the process. By having the process conditioned and void of indecision and presumption, the speed of decisions increases significantly.
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