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 The Nietzschean Cauldron

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Fixed Cross
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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:49 pm

Well, continue your hallucinations in peace, Transhumanist.

 

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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:58 pm

Myki I'm just being honest, you don't really seem like a Nietzsche "expert" to me. But I can tell there is a language barrier of some sort here too. Are you German by chance?

Please demonstrate your expert interpretation of Nietzsche. You've shown some capacity for thinking so far, that's good, but just saying you're an expert and then quoting a few most commons passages or ideas which almost anyone already knows, isn't exactly expertise.

Also it's strange to call Nietzsche your "master". A philosopher has no master, save for truth itself.

 

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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:29 pm

Quote :
Myki I'm just being honest, you don't really seem like a Nietzsche "expert" to me.

Well Fixed cross would disagree with you let me quote him
Quote :
That is nicely phrased. Someone will gain insight reading this. You do understand your philosopher.

Ho wait i think he change his mind, nevermind....

Quote :
Also it's strange to call Nietzsche your "master". A philosopher has no master, save for truth itself.

i have absolutly no idea what to say to this.

Quote :
Are you German by chance?

French and the language barrier you talking about is philosophical and scientifical , you should pay attention of what Nietzsche says about the need to forget obsolet knowledge and how they really mess with your thinking system





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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:59 pm

Quote :
Please demonstrate your expert interpretation of Nietzsche.

you kidding me right ?


....anyway the most closest expert in Nietzsche philosophy to my views is him
http://jetpress.org/v20/sorgner.htm

but im more advanced than him


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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:25 am

You're free to equate Nietzsche's philosophy with transhumanism or anything else you like. But you still need to explain that, beyond simply stating that you claim it.

Nietzsche was probably the most human philosopher there ever was. Even his critiques of humanity came from a position of overflowing humanity. Can the same be said of transhumanism? I've never seen or heard about a transhumanist who embodied more humanity, their goal is to alter humanity in a particular way-- what way? In order to bypass imperfections and limits and pains, in order to live forever, live in a computer fantasy, mind-link with others and with machines or AI, that sort of thing. Transhumanism is more than just embracing new technology. Heidegger knew that technology was not neutral, it demands a standard for its application.

So what is transhumanism's standard here? What positive project does it aim for? As far as I can tell and especially if we've factor in Nietzsche's brand of the "human who is more human than human, precisely because he is human", it would seem transhumanism is something entirely different.

On what philosophical conceptual or meaningful basis does transhumanism pose its progression? Nietzsche's basis is quite clear: man is more ape even than ape, the philosopher is more human even than human. Nietzsche's humanity is a beautiful jewel that he polishes with all of his criticisms of humanity. Pessimism (e.g. Schopenhauer) is fully sublated in Nietzsche; this is why he is so attractive and such a good thinker.

So what is sublated in transhumanism? Not pessimism, but I would say the opposite: it is pessimism that is precisely not sublated in transhumanism and can never be, so instead some kind of weird hybrids of positivism and empirical-religious optimism are "affirmed".

 

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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:58 am

I just wanted to let Y'all know that I am enjoying this discussion. Myki has some valid points worthy of consideration. I won't say whether or not I agree with them as I am basically ignorant of transhumanism and have no interest in doing any research.

I doubt Nietzsche had any thoughts of technologically modifying man. But yes, he did express the need for a revaluation of moral values. This can happen naturally within the human brain without any alterations of the natural man.

Important in my personal philosophy is observing the processes of nature and of man. Observing and understanding what is really happening. Nietzsche knew how to do this extremely well.
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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:52 am

Quote :
I just wanted to let Y'all know that I am enjoying this discussion. Myki has some valid points worthy of consideration.

Ok guys i just needed only one guy with the "eyes", the "ears" and the "will" to understand every words i wroted( i can do like Nietzsche, write in a single pag...),thank you by the way, it was about time :/

My next post will be extremely important so it will take me some time, so keep your popcorn very close to you, see you soon philosophers !
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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:45 am

myki wrote:
Quote :
This is still too vague; let's be realistic. Scientists have no clue yet how the brain works. They know areas and types of cells, and where processes take place, but there is zero informaton on how the physical processes translate into experience...

Listen to yourself : "there is zero !!  informations on how the physical processes translate into experience" , ''We have no clue on how the brains works'' ?!!!

Are you really serious there ?

Im sorry but you have no clue on how advanced in neuroscience we are right now, can talk about this for hours, but agree to disagree.
Science is really not your thing i guess, "zero informations" sounds very sad from a self called philosopher.

I'm pretty sure Fixed Cross is referring to the problem of qualia, which prominent scientists like Daniel Dennett don't even seem to understand (or maybe Dennett's just a mindless zombie...). I do find the work of Giulio Tononi promising, though.

Now as for ageing and transhumanism. From what I know, anti-ageing ("Super Longevity") is only one of the three major pillars of transhumanism. I don't necessarily have a problem with this pillar, since from what I've read ageing only accounts for about 10% of human deaths. What I do have a problem with is "Super Well-Being", where "well-being" is understood in the sense of the Last Man. Several prominent transhumanists actually want to alter human nature so that man will no longer know aggression, suffering, and the like. This is as anti-Nietzsche as it gets. Nietzsche wants to increase suffering and danger (see e.g. Beyond Good and Evil 44, 225; The Will to Power 464, 957, 981; and Twilight of the Idols "Skirmishes of an Untimely Man" 38).

 

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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:31 am

Quote :
Several prominent transhumanists actually want to alter human nature so that man will no longer know aggression, suffering, and the like. This is as anti-Nietzsche as it gets. Nietzsche wants to increase suffering and danger

"altering things" is a natural human power, its the absolut essence of the expression of our  intelligence.

Suffering from the point of view of Nietzsche is another way to reach the truth, because, first, you have the perspectiv of what suffering is, secondo, sufffering make you think about the problem like hell, so overcoming become an absolute necessity, that's the power of suffering, make you do stufff, got it ???

By Danger Nietzsche mean,  dont listen others and make your way into forbidden lands !

Your level interpretation of Nietzscche is extremely low.


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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:21 pm

Suffering is a Buddhist thing. I don't do suffering. I have stared into the abyss though. Dark as hell in there but if you stare long enough some lights begin to appear.

The danger thing is a difficult one. Yes, explore. Find the hidden, especially in your own life. (Yes, we all have those subconscious influences.)

We Taoists are told to avoid danger. Doing so will allow us to live out our natural life cycle. But true, we should not be deterred by the fears of others.

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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:05 pm

Quote :
I don't do suffering. I have stared into the abyss though. Dark as hell in there but if you stare long enough some lights begin to appear.

One of my favorite quote, , Nietzsche final objectiv is to give us joy and therefore avoid the pain by understanding it, nobody want to suffer but indeed

"It is in the deepest darkness where sometimes, the purest light can be found"
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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:13 pm

myki wrote:
Quote :
Several prominent transhumanists actually want to alter human nature so that man will no longer know aggression, suffering, and the like. This is as anti-Nietzsche as it gets. Nietzsche wants to increase suffering and danger

"altering things" is a natural human power, its the absolut essence of the expression of our  intelligence.

Suffering from the point of view of Nietzsche is another way to reach the truth, because, first, you have the perspectiv of what suffering is, secondo, sufffering make you think about the problem like hell, so overcoming become an absolute necessity, that's the power of suffering, make you do stufff, got it ???

By Danger Nietzsche mean,  dont listen others and make your way into forbidden lands !

Your level interpretation of Nietzscche is extremely low.

You're jumping to conclusions--like a frog.

I didn't say wanting to alter things in general was anti-Nietzsche. I didn't even say wanting to alter human nature in general was anti-Nietzsche. What I said was that wanting to alter human nature so that man will no longer know aggression, suffering, and the like was anti-Nietzsche. Anyway...

If altering things is a natural human power, indeed the absolute essence of the expression of our intelligence, then what about altering human nature so that afterward we can no longer alter things? Wouldn't you have a problem with transhumanists who wanted to do that?

And yes, I "get" that Nietzsche did not want to increase suffering and danger for their own sake, but for the sake of spurring people to overcome themselves. Man is a cowboy on a horse. The cowboy is the "creator in man" from BGE 225, whereas the horse is the "creature in man". Transhumanism is just an extension of so-called humanism--meaning of the whole democratic movement, modernity itself. That movement wants to take away the cowboy's spurs, indeed it wants to neutralize the whole cowboy ("ni dieu, ni mâitre" (BGE 22), "ni créateur, ni élevage"): it wants the horse to be "free" to graze safely in a well-fenced green meadow, like a cow (compare TI "Skirmishes" 38: "the despicable kind of well-being of which merchants, Christians, cows, women, Englishmen and other democrats dream").

http://www.thinkhumanism.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=180312&sid=af4ea896cfbef816080ffa994b475d22#p180312
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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:49 pm

myki wrote:
Fixed cross, like i said, im a nietzschean expert, everything we are talking about here is very serious, and since you said that you are a real philosopher and same for other people that are here,  i have to prove myself to my collegues, who watching this debate to trust me on my plan: from every thing you said, i must conclude that you didnt understood Nietzsche, im sorry but i reached my "Genkaï".

Quote :
This is still too vague; let's be realistic. Scientists have no clue yet how the brain works. They know areas and types of cells, and where processes take place, but there is zero informaton on how the physical processes translate into experience...


Listen to yourself : "there is zero !!  informations on how the physical processes translate into experience" , ''We have no clue on how the brains works'' ?!!!

Are you really serious there ?

Im sorry but you have no clue on how advanced in neuroscience we are right now, can talk about this for hours, but agree to disagree.
Science is really not your thing i guess, "zero informations" sounds very sad from a self called philosopher.

Lets see about what Nietzsche says: "Consciousness is the last and the latest evolution of organic life, and therefore it is not accomplished and fragile."

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2014-04-strategic-intellectual-capacity.html


Quote :
We can not try to understand the will to power as materalists

The will to power is an observational mind tool, you must look things trough it,like a microscop, then you see how things work, then you start to predict things from your subsequent observations.

Quote :
have no desire to rid you of your passion. Just accept that I see it differently and we'll get along fine.  (There is no definitive number of particles, nor is there an absolute minimum size - the universe simply isnt finite, nor is it made out of completely discrete objects.

Search youtube : Googol and Googolplex - Numberphile       and then tell me if Nietzsche is wrong !

Quote :
Will and Imagination - not only imagination - I recommend reading Schopenhauer on the side, Nietzsche would not have arrived at his WTP insight without Schopenhauers ideas.

Schopenhauer helped me to understand Nietzsche. Like i would not read the master of my master...

Quote :
So a bird using a twig to build a nest is a trans-birdist? Only people who let their tools dominate themselves are transhumanist.

Smart beings use tools, if using a tool for you is a bad thing then you are clearly not a transhumanist. That make the bird more transhumanist than you because is really "dominated"(?!) by his twigs and nests.

Quote :
Nietzsche was also a shaman.

The smartest man who ever lived is not a shaman, the most tactical mind thinker of all time would not want to be associated to shamanism even if it was true...somehow lol or you talking about taking drugs for reaching new perspectiv ?

Quote :
"I could not believe in a god that does not know how to dance."
"Stay true to the Earth!"

Thats one of my favorite Smile

Dancing is the final expression of joy, but anciens Gods forbid so much things that human is not able to dance anymore, the power of chains.

Yes stay true to your instincts not based on imaginary things, i find that very wise to.


Quote :
I will work with you if you have scientific work underway - but for different reasons.

Thats only possible if you recognize that my interpretation of Nietzsche is superior to yours otherwise the probability of a successfull collaboration is lower.

Quote :
Forget transhumanism for now

Like saying to a vegan to forget his vegetables, really deep advice !

Quote :
Here we differ so much as no human differs from an animal - Nietzsche says that humans are more different form each other than they are from animals.

I dont remember that quote, i remember another quote, " Humans might be gods transformed into animals"

Quote :
the time is coming when politics will have a different meaning

that time came, we dont need politic anymore, thanks god ! Internet is the real power now, so much possibilities that it make me...wanna dance Very Happy





.

You must be more coherent.


 

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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:14 am

Sauwelios wrote:

I didn't say wanting to alter things in general was anti-Nietzsche. I didn't even say wanting to alter human nature in general was anti-Nietzsche. What I said was that wanting to alter human nature so that man will no longer know aggression, suffering, and the like was anti-Nietzsche.

For me this is an interesting thought because it relates directly to my Taoist philosophy.

Confucius could have been considered a transhumanist.  He wanted to change the nature of man.

Taoism (Chuang Tzu) states that we should not attempt to change the nature of man.  It does state that man should be allowed to return to his natural state.  I think Nietzsche has said this as well.  To throw off the shackles and chains of those who wish to rule the world and live one's life in peace and happiness (whatever that is).

Actually, Chuang Tzu was "Beyond good and evil" two thousand years before Nietzsche coined the phrase.  Chuang Tzu's ideal was to be beyond dualities.  I think the same thing can be said of Nietzsche.
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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:54 am

Quote :
You're jumping to conclusions--like a frog.

I didn't say wanting to alter things in general was anti-Nietzsche. I didn't even say wanting to alter human nature in general was anti-Nietzsche. What I said was that wanting to alter human nature so that man will no longer know aggression, suffering, and the like was anti-Nietzsche. Anyway...

Don't you see nonsense in there ? you dont know what is anti-Nietzsche !
Damn you so wrong i have hard time to think straight xD

Nietzsche said you have the right to do anything you think is right for you and asking you to don't take crap from anyone.
If my goal is to put bioluminescent genes on my buttocks and walk around naked like a mad guy screaming that god(or money) is dead, that make me nietzschean as its get.

Do what you want ! alter, experiment, transform yourself in anyway you want, you want more agression ? go get it !

If you want agression, i can give it to you, i can be very agressiv on your level interpretation of Nietzsche , and then you would wish that man will no longer know agression !

Quote :
then what about altering human nature so that afterward we can no longer alter things?

You mean :

" Ho noo !!!! I became God, thats so lame, god damn it, pls help me, i want to become Sauwelios again, and write nonsense on internet, that was so much fun back then !!!

Who the heck know what will happen exactly ? is there an end to altering ? is there a final state ?? let you will decide. i just wanna be there to see.


Quote :
Fixed cross : You must be more coherent.

That's a great leap, you jump from im hallucinating to just, "be more coherent"

We can call this a breakthrough !

Just tell me what you want to know more precisely and i will explain with more details no problem. i can flood you with informations if that what you want !
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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:28 am

Sisyphus wrote:
Sauwelios wrote:

I didn't say wanting to alter things in general was anti-Nietzsche. I didn't even say wanting to alter human nature in general was anti-Nietzsche. What I said was that wanting to alter human nature so that man will no longer know aggression, suffering, and the like was anti-Nietzsche.

For me this is an interesting thought because it relates directly to my Taoist philosophy.

Confucius could have been considered a transhumanist.  He wanted to change the nature of man.

Let me point out at this point that, though I didn't say wanting to alter human nature in general was anti-Nietzsche, that doesn't mean it isn't. Even wanting to alter things in general can be understood as anti-Nietzsche, namely insofar as it goes against eternal return. Things change (each other and "themselves") all the time, and wanting to change this fact is anti-Nietzsche, but wanting to change how things have changed (i.e., the past, the course of nature thus far) is also anti-Nietzsche. Anyway, this is probably beyond the scope of this thread, and certainly beyond the OP...


Quote :
Taoism (Chuang Tzu) states that we should not attempt to change the nature of man.  It does state that man should be allowed to return to his natural state.  I think Nietzsche has said this as well.  To throw off the shackles and chains of those who wish to rule the world and live one's life in peace and happiness (whatever that is).

Well, even with the parenthesis "whatever that is", this is a very un-Nietzschean way of putting it. And what if, for certain people, "living one's life in peace and happiness" means ruling the world?

For Nietzsche, man's natural state cannot be "returned" to in the sense of Rousseau's good savage; man could only return to the pre-human and subhuman. (To be sure, though, the pre-human, the animal, is superior to the human in the sense that it's more perfect; man constitutes an aberration from the perfection of the animal, and can only attain equal perfection on the level of humanity in the Superman. The Superman is the natural man, i.e., the man who fully realizes/actualizes nature within himself, including all its terrifying and questionable aspects. As a simile of this "return to nature", Nietzsche mentions Napoleon ("a piece of 'return to nature' the way I understand it" (TI "Skirmishes" 48, my emphasis)).)


Quote :
Actually, Chuang Tzu was "Beyond good and evil" two thousand years before Nietzsche coined the phrase.

That may very well be, but that doesn't simply mean Nietzsche/the West was two thousand years behind Chuang Tzu/the Far East. We have an "advantage" over the Far East in the form of our Abrahamic-Platonic legacy.


Quote :
Chuang Tzu's ideal was to be beyond dualities.  I think the same thing can be said of Nietzsche.

Yes, but the "advantage" I spoke of can be said to consist precisely in our great contrast between being hopelessly torn between dualities (e.g., "good and evil") and our finally transcending that schism within our psyche. As I put it this summer:

"The religion I bring is the Nietzschean religion of the two paths. The one leads to oneness with nature or spirit; the other leads to the reduction of everything to nothing. And the big question is which is which. Has Western man truly cut himself off from nature? Or is nature rather also the complete embrace of the Modern abomination? [...] My Privi-Lege is the privilege of looking back on nature, coming 'back' to nature, from the perspective furthest removed from nature that this 6,000 y.o. or so World (Vir-Old, Masculine Male Man-world) has yet known. It is to come 'back' to nature from the other side, from the Nothing." (http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=190975)
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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:19 pm

The looking back on nature is our privilege, and I treat it as such : I can see easily that most are still terrified of looking, as nature is so far happier than they are. The runes, and the rise in spiritual prominence of animals, they are vanguards of the return to nature :  the return is namely from the ground up: it is our feet (and our noses!) that return first.

 

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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:26 pm

Sauwelios wrote:

I didn't say wanting to alter things in general was anti-Nietzsche. I didn't even say wanting to alter human nature in general was anti-Nietzsche. What I said was that wanting to alter human nature so that man will no longer know aggression, suffering, and the like was anti-Nietzsche.

Although it may appear that we are in disagreement I don't think we really are. Just differences in concept understandings.

Yeah, that "happiness" thing is always a problem. It must be viewed from the individual level.

I didn't intend on comparing East/West philosophy. Just pointing out that the concept of being "beyond good and evil is not a new concept.

Perhaps "returning to nature" is not a good phrase. Others have expressed the concept well but it took hundreds, thousands of words to do it. What I was mostly referring to was that the individual should live their life according to their own true nature. But there are problems with saying it this way too.

And no, I'm not going to write a book.
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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:29 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
The looking back on nature is our privilege, and I treat it as such : I can see easily that most are still terrified of looking, as nature is so far happier than they are. The runes, and the rise in spiritual prominence of animals, they are vanguards of the return to nature :  the return is namely from the ground up: it is our feet (and our noses!) that return first.

Yes, those who don't think too much are more capable of return than those who are always thinking.

And yes, a return to our roots is necessary.

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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:00 pm

Quote :
Let me point out at this point that, though I didn't say wanting to alter human nature in general was anti-Nietzsche, that doesn't mean it isn't. Even wanting to alter things in general can be understood as anti-Nietzsche, namely insofar as it goes against eternal return. Things change (each other and "themselves") all the time, and wanting to change this fact is anti-Nietzsche, but wanting to change how things have changed (i.e., the past, the course of nature thus far) is also anti-Nietzsche. Anyway, this is probably beyond the scope of this thread, and certainly beyond the OP...

If somebody prove me that this, right there, isnt a complet nonsense, ill promise you guys i will do this :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB1zUlVGfxU
                                 
i swear on Nietzsche ill do it , and will post the video here, im a man of his word xD


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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:27 pm

myki wrote:
                                 
i swear on Nietzsche ill do it , and will post the video here, im a man of his word xD
Some people are born stupid, others need to practice.
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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:01 pm

Quote :
Some people are born stupid, others need to practice.

I will not do it xD i will  just be very happy if someone find sense in this ,so i could reach a whole new perspectiv !
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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:06 pm

myki wrote:
Quote :
You're jumping to conclusions--like a frog.

I didn't say wanting to alter things in general was anti-Nietzsche. I didn't even say wanting to alter human nature in general was anti-Nietzsche. What I said was that wanting to alter human nature so that man will no longer know aggression, suffering, and the like was anti-Nietzsche. Anyway...

Don't you see nonsense in there ? you dont know what is anti-Nietzsche !
Damn you so wrong i have hard time to think straight xD

I've spent the past 19 years, which is half my life thus far, studying Nietzsche. You on the other hand seem to have embraced a popular misunderstanding of Nietzsche you found in a superficial browsing. Nietzsche was no existentialist and no individualist. He thought, as I put it elsewhere, "that the French gradually became so feminized that they allowed the English to fuck them in the ass, if you'll pardon my French--inseminating them with 'modern ideas'[.]" (http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=187862)


Quote :
Nietzsche said you have the right to do anything you think is right for you and asking you to don't take crap from anyone.

Can you back that up with quotes? I don't think so, since at the very least that way of putting it is anti-Nietzsche. Nietzsche did not think anyone had any right that was not a privilege.

"[E]very man, with his total activity, only has dignity insofar as, consciously or unconsciously, he is a tool of the genius; from which the ethical conclusion can immediately be drawn, that 'man in himself', the absolute man, possesses neither dignity, nor rights, nor duties: only as a fully determinate being that serves unconscious ends can man excuse his existence." (Nietzsche, "The Greek State".)


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If my goal is to put bioluminescent genes on my buttocks and walk around naked like a mad guy screaming that god(or money) is dead, that make me nietzschean as its get.

Wow... Postmodern degeneracy in full display.


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Do what you want ! alter, experiment, transform yourself in anyway you want, you want more agression ? go get it !

What about being able to want? In other words, what about strength of will? You confuse Nietzsche with Wagner--the most real human being, the philosopher, with the actor!


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If you want agression, i can give it to you, i can be very agressiv on your level interpretation of Nietzsche , and then you would wish that man will no longer know agression !

Yes, it's clear that I make you angry. Temper temper!


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then what about altering human nature so that afterward we can no longer alter things?

You mean :

" Ho noo !!!! I became God, thats so lame, god damn it, pls help me, i want to become Sauwelios again, and write nonsense on internet, that was so much fun back then !!!

Who the heck know what will happen exactly ? is there an end to altering ? is there a final state ?? let you will decide. i just wanna be there to see.

I don't think you've understood me. You've defended altering things, including human nature, as "the absolute essence of the expression of our intelligence." My question is: if we could know what will happen exactly, and if we could make an end of our altering things, would you then defend altering human nature so that afterwards we can no longer alter things? If not, then you don't regard altering things as absolutely good. And if altering is not absolutely good, then your defense of it as "the absolute essence of the expression of our intelligence" need not preclude altering human nature so that man will no longer know aggression, suffering, and the like from being bad. Which indeed it would be. Which is why it's anti-Nietzsche. As are you.
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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:25 pm

myki wrote:
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Let me point out at this point that, though I didn't say wanting to alter human nature in general was anti-Nietzsche, that doesn't mean it isn't. Even wanting to alter things in general can be understood as anti-Nietzsche, namely insofar as it goes against eternal return. Things change (each other and "themselves") all the time, and wanting to change this fact is anti-Nietzsche, but wanting to change how things have changed (i.e., the past, the course of nature thus far) is also anti-Nietzsche. Anyway, this is probably beyond the scope of this thread, and certainly beyond the OP...

If somebody prove me that this, right there, isnt a complet nonsense, ill promise you guys i will do this :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB1zUlVGfxU
                             
i swear on Nietzsche ill do it , and will post the video here, im a man of his word xD

Maybe a real-life example will explain what I mean. Two years ago, I wrote to a former love interest of mine:

"Last week I had an infestation of mice in the attic where I live now. They reminded me of you in the beginning [i.e., when I just knew her]: they were still very young, all small and cute and gawky. I saw at least three different ones. I killed two and haven't seen another one since."

And some time later:

"[T]he thing with the mice had nothing to do with cruelty; I just didn't want them to exist in my future. I killed them coldly, rationally. One can love a thing's present and yet deny it its future. In fact, the will to the eternal recurrence is incompatible with hatred of the present. I don't hate the course of history, I just want to change it. And likewise, I don't hate you, I just want to change you--into a Dionysa. For only when I'm working on an Ariadne can I experience myself as a Dionysus."

A Dionysus or Dionysa is someone who imposes suffering and danger on others in order to spur them to overcome themselves.
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PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:12 pm

Ok big boy im here to fight and to quote Conor "The Notorious" Mcgregor "i will take your head clean off"

I know from one sentence if someone understood Nietzsche or not like the first post of Fixed cross, i already knew....

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I've spent the past 19 years, which is half my life thus far, studying Nietzsche.

You mean it tooked you 19 years to "not" understand what tooked me 1 year to control ?? thats sounds like music to my ears

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You on the other hand seem to have embraced a popular misunderstanding of Nietzsche you found in a superficial browsing.

Never worked in my life (im so lazy guys :/) I understood Nietzsche, a year later i became the general secretary of international longevity alliance, involved in anti ageing research, meeting rich people, politicians and my favorite scientists.

Dont ever question my understanding of Nietzsche again, i said Nietzsche teach us the absolute power, this is not a joke.

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Can you back that up with quotes? I don't think so, since at the very least that way of putting it is anti-Nietzsche. Nietzsche did not think anyone had any right that was not a privilege.

I dont need to quote anything, if Nietzsche disagree that's mean he is inferior to me but you might have a little point here, let me rephrase it more correctly :

we are chained to our vision of the power.

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Wow... Postmodern degeneracy in full display.

Its a "Postmodern" joke that will be funny in 2025, sorry about that !

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What about being able to want? In other words, what about strength of will?

There is no "strength of will" there is only a"will"

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You confuse Nietzsche with Wagner--the most real human being, the philosopher, with the actor!

I think you are confused , and you confused me.... i think everybody is confused right now, help !!!

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Yes, it's clear that I make you angry. Temper temper!

No No, my objectiv is to make You angry, so that it will make you give everything you got to win a debate that you already lost many many post ago, so i can show to everybody how obsolet knowledges mess with our brains, you are precious to me !

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I don't think you've understood me.

I don't think you've understood me neither and i dont blame you, this is a complex subject indeed !

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You've defended altering things, including human nature, as "the absolute essence of the expression of our intelligence." My question is: if we could know what will happen exactly, and if we could make an end of our altering things, would you then defend altering human nature so that afterwards we can no longer alter things? If not, then you don't regard altering things as absolutely good. And if altering is not absolutely good, then your defense of it as "the absolute essence of the expression of our intelligence" need not preclude altering human nature so that man will no longer know aggression, suffering, and the like from being bad. Which indeed it would be. Which is why it's anti-Nietzsche. As are you.

look it's easy, we are smart being and we want more power, the vision we have of it, is evolving trough time, ok ?
Now we see tremendous power in technology so we follow the will of progress.
It's just about what you want dude that's it.


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A Dionysus or Dionysa is someone who imposes suffering and danger on others in order to spur them to overcome themselves.

if you keep posting nonsense things, i will show you my Dionysian final attack , you are warned mister !


Last edited by myki on Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:53 am; edited 3 times in total
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