'Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day. But when I follow at my pleasure the serried multitude of the stars in their circular course, my feet no longer touch the earth.'
 
HomeCalendarFAQSearchMemberlistRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 The Nietzschean Cauldron

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1 ... 12 ... 21, 22, 23, 24  Next
AuthorMessage
Fixed Cross
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 4151
Join date : 2011-11-09
Location : Will to Power

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:37 am

Where does N say he wished to be Superman?

The Superman is a symbol of overcoming. It is meant as that height which one can not personally attain, but can wish on ones childrens children.

N was the most ego less Christ since Christ, working only for his posthumous friends.

He talked about the little self and the greater self as the greedy and the maganimous.

 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sisyphus
Path
Path


Posts : 1484
Join date : 2016-08-06
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:04 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Where does N say he wished to be Superman?


I don't believe I said he said he wanted to be superman. I said he knew he couldn't be superman.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Thrasymachus
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3599
Join date : 2011-11-03
Location : Will to Power

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:11 pm

The idea of the ubermensch was Nietzsche's was of making a meme long before memes existed.

 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

Peace. War. Love. Wordz


Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
Sisyphus
Path
Path


Posts : 1484
Join date : 2016-08-06
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:50 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:
The idea of the ubermensch was Nietzsche's was of making a meme long before memes existed.

I can't argue with that. But I think Nietzsche gave the concept more substance than any of the others had.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fixed Cross
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 4151
Join date : 2011-11-09
Location : Will to Power

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:01 pm

"Nietzsche had a strong ego. But he realized that his ego had gotten too big and this is why he confessed that he could never became a superman. He knew the path but he knew he could not travel it."

It's just I don't see the truth in this formulation.
N's ego wasn't remarkably big at all, he wrote mostly of others, like Wagner, Schopenhauer, these were men he looked up to, until, after many years of study, he overcame them.

Kant is Egoic, tremendously so. His categorical imperative is him thinking he is God and Savior. Egoists don't create beyond themselves, but want themselves to be the center, just for the hell of it. Zizek is also an egoist, though to a lesser degree. Lacan is egoistic but in examining that very phenomenon, the ego. Heidegger very much lacked ego. He is a Nietzschean in this sense, Nietscheans have joy in contemplating the fruits of their work, which to their minds may lie thousands of years ahead of them.

Nietzsche's ego is really very modest. All fiction novelists have bigger ego's, so do all filmmakers and actors. I would estimate N's ego about the size of a dedicated second violinist.


 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sisyphus
Path
Path


Posts : 1484
Join date : 2016-08-06
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:46 pm

I've not done any research yet to support what I have said.  Might have to later on.

Yes, the very little I know of Kant, ego-maniac.

But Nietzsche, consider Zarathustra;  When he left this cave in the woods he was hell bent on changing the world.  He arrived in the village and found people who wouldn't listen to someone they did not know; they took him for a criminal and locked their doors and windows.  It was here that Nietzsche realized his excessive ego and here that he realized that he could not be a superman.


Last edited by Sisyphus on Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:36 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fixed Cross
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 4151
Join date : 2011-11-09
Location : Will to Power

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:28 pm

I see your point. Well made.

But I'd say it is not Nietzsche, but the Christian impulse that finds its limit here - Z went down the mountain a missionary, and ends up a tragic figure. Given Z was N's most 'contrived', forged, 'artificial' work (not to say less profound, on the contrary, N is a philosopher of creation) and that he had it coincide with Beyond Good and Evil, as a poetic mirror to what he considered his masterpiece, it is safe to assume N was aware of the developments he would have Zarathustra go through - except, that I think he crossed a line he didnt see coming.

I think he saw conceptually what was going to happen, but when he reached the moment where I think his ego broke through - the end of book 3 - he went mad.

I am pretty much convinced that while writing the seven seals, N lost his mind. More accurately, he lost his taste, his earthly, hearty taste for the finite.

 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sisyphus
Path
Path


Posts : 1484
Join date : 2016-08-06
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:48 am

Yes, Christianity was always a boulder in the path of Nietzsche's journey. He really was never able to get beyond all the boulders.

It is pretty much a given that Nietzsche "went mad" because of syphilis. Back then they didn't know what the disease was let alone know how to treat it. Nietzsche always had rather poor health so he was easily effected by the syphilis. And yes, one of the effects of syphilis is the deterioration of the brain cells.

But anyhow, it is still my opinion that when Nietzsche said that "God is dead" he was referring to how the Christians had destroyed the Jewish concept of God. And I further believe that Nietzsche's parting of friends was because of their anti-Semitic attitude and activities.

I think Nietzsche would have been a good Jew. And I'm sure he saw the beginnings of the return of the Jews to the lands of Israel.

And I think also that it was Nietzsche's ill health that prevented him from further developing the concept of the superman.



Back to top Go down
View user profile
kami3
bowstring
bowstring


Posts : 43
Join date : 2017-03-27

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:09 pm

Quote :

Ego is not about power, Ego is self-actualization

the purpose of a self-actualization please ?

Quote :
It will be different for each individual.

You mean everybody possess a different """"vision""" of what the power is" ?

Quote :
Some will fall into your category, most won't.

You mean some people understand themselves other not ?

Quote :
And you may not have free will but I damn sure do.

Do you know the backfire effect ?

Quote :
I even have the free will to entertain the thoughts that arise in my brain or to just let them arise and fall as they will; totally ignoring them

Such a simplification for the most complex object in the universe living in the most complex object ever, the universe....

Nietzsche :

The Four Great Errors are as follows:

The error of confusing cause and consequence
The error of a false causality
The error of imaginary causes
The error of free will

and they are all interconnected

People, Nietzsche maintains, mistakenly believe that they make decisions freely, attributing these decisions to the “inner facts” or notions of will, spirit, and ego. Nietzsche argues against the existence of these three notions. For example, will does not cause events to occur, it only accompanied them (Nietzsche also points out that it is possible for some events to not be accompanied by any will). Similarly, Nietzsche holds that spirit, in the form of motive, is merely an accompaniment to an action, but not a cause of it. Finally, he argues that the ego is simply a fiction. In short, there are no spiritual causes for human behavior.

Quote :

Nietzsche had a strong ego. But he realized that his ego had gotten too big and this is why he confessed that he could never became a superman. He knew the path but he knew he could not travel it

You really dont get it ? the superman is a state of mind/brain that imply a deep understanding of our own reality, a being with interconnected knowledges that bring a tremendous amount of power to him and accurate visualizations that make him a superior being.

an example of how futuristic his brain was :

“That the Jews, if they wanted it--or if they were forced into it, which seems to be what the anti-Semites want--could even now have preponderance, indeed quite literally mastery over Europe, that is certain; that they are not working and planning for that is equally certain”  Nietzsche (BGE 251, N27).

he understood the visions of the power of both sides and look what happened...this kind of quote can be made only by a superman and believe me , Nietzsche knew himself, and how can he teach the superman without being it, without understanding it, without experiment it ?

Quote :
But Nietzsche, consider Zarathustra; When he left this cave in the woods he was hell bent on changing the world. He arrived in the village and found people who wouldn't listen to someone they did not know; they took him for a criminal and locked their doors and windows. It was here that Nietzsche realized his excessive ego and here that he realized that he could not be a superman

Telling to people that they all have the thirst of power, whatever this power looks like to them, is by nature incommunicable to inferior being with "slave morality".

Quote :
And I think also that it was Nietzsche's ill health that prevented him from further developing the concept of the superman.

LOL he was the most prolific philosopher of all time, he wrote everything, in all possible ways(+everything he wrote unofficially, was even better than the books) just for us, inferior beings, to understand the transvaluation and the consequences of it on the mind, it's all written buddy, black on white, his one and only objective was to make this twisted stuff communicable all along.... yep... Smile

There is no absolute truth,  he remplaced the word "truth" by the word "powerness" so that make everything i wrote accurate only at a certain degree of power, same for all of you, and same for all humanity, we are all telling, giving or taking "powernessess".

We measure, judge, compute a "truth" by the amount of power it can bring into us, and....that's it.

google : "i'm a scientist and i don't believe in facts"

“Whatever they may think and say about their "egoism", the great majority nonetheless do nothing for their ego their whole life long: what they do is done for the phantom of their ego which has formed itself in the heads of those around them and has been communicated to them.”

― Friedrich Nietzsche, Daybreak

The fact that 99.9% of the world would agree with you,(most of them religious people by the way) having free will, enjoying it,  make it difficult for you to overcome that nonsense !

'To consider an alternative view, you would have to consider an alternative version of yourself.' It's like a death for the ego so, it is quiet understandable...

google : How political views are 'hardwired' in our brains: Study finds resistance to others' beliefs spurs activity in region linked to 'thinking about who we are"

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fixed Cross
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 4151
Join date : 2011-11-09
Location : Will to Power

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:18 pm

The difference between Alexander and Caesar.

Alexander embodied the process of power and 'accompanied' the events, was intimating them to the bosom of the world. In any case a poetic situation, where trance and wilderness rule and the ego doesnt exist besides the bedridden mothers-boy that dreams the life that is lived out by the actual man, who is unafraid of any consequence except the loss of his dream. This violence is beyond good and evil entirely, even beyond good and bad. After all, he embodied both in the end, dying in India of being estranged from his nature, his being untrue to his own Earth. But he was true to a greater Earth thereby. He broke through certain barriers of taste, along with proving that there is no ring-sea.

Caesar on the other hand was fully conscious of what he did, why he did it, and for whom - there was no woman in his mind, not a single one anyway, he grew up hard and young and lived a life full of weird displacement and proud pioneering, until he finally came to an emotional breakdown where he realized he wasn't going to amount to much this way, and then, we shan't ever know why, became fortunate, received a mission, took Gaul, and then made the world into his image by usurping the greatest power in it for himself. All this was driven by his Animus, his masculine self-idealizing, not by his instincts directly, as with Alexander.

Alexander was far happier than Caesar, but Caesar didnt need to be happy. He just needed to be right, correct, straight as an arrow in his methods.

Now before we meet the Superman we have to decide if he is a methodical being at heart, or one driven by thymos, the holy fire of unbroken masculinity, which is deeply infantile, of which all great leaders testify, our current one included.

 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sisyphus
Path
Path


Posts : 1484
Join date : 2016-08-06
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:29 pm

kami3 wrote:
Quote :

Ego is not about power, Ego is self-actualization

the purpose of a self-actualization please ?

Hi kami3, Nice having you aboard. And nice having the challenges to what I posted.

I will speak to each of your responses separately so to not confuse myself.


I don't often talk about purpose. It almost always end up invoking some supernatural powers and I do not hold to any such things. If it's not natural then it doesn't exist.

However, self-actualization is the becoming of our full potential. With a healthy ego this becoming will be a natural flow if our external world allows for such development. There are always limiters in our life - some cannot be over-come.

But I suppose I could say that a purpose of self-actualization would be so that we never have to ask the question "What if ...?" That we will feel that our life is complete.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sisyphus
Path
Path


Posts : 1484
Join date : 2016-08-06
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:37 pm

kami3 wrote:
Quote :

It will be different for each individual.

You mean everybody possess a different """"vision""" of what the power is" ?

You mean some people understand themselves other not ?

This has nothing to do with power.

What I was referring to is that each of us has a different set of capabilities and capacities.

And yes, I do believe that there are many people, probably the majority, who do not even understand their self. Their ego (self image) and reality are far apart.

But there are others who understand their self. These people have an image of their self that is in balance with reality.


Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sisyphus
Path
Path


Posts : 1484
Join date : 2016-08-06
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:00 pm

kami3 wrote:


Quote :
And you may not have free will but I damn sure do.

Do you know the backfire effect ?

No fear. But thanks for the reminder.

Quote :
I even have the free will to entertain the thoughts that arise in my brain or to just let them arise and fall as they will; totally ignoring them

Such a simplification for the most complex object in the universe living in the most complex object ever, the universe....

I like to keep things as simple as possible.

Nietzsche :

The Four Great Errors are as follows:

The error of confusing cause and consequence
The error of a false causality
The error of imaginary causes
The error of free will

1. I fully understand the concept of "cause and effect".
2. I have many times stated that most times we will never know all the causes that contributed to a given effect.
3. I am a Materialist. I don't imagine things.
4. That was one of Nietzsche's errors.


and they are all interconnected

People, Nietzsche maintains, mistakenly believe that they make decisions freely, attributing these decisions to the “inner facts” or notions of will, spirit, and ego. Nietzsche argues against the existence of these three notions. For example, will does not cause events to occur, it only accompanied them (Nietzsche also points out that it is possible for some events to not be accompanied by any will). Similarly, Nietzsche holds that spirit, in the form of motive, is merely an accompaniment to an action, but not a cause of it. Finally, he argues that the ego is simply a fiction. In short, there are no spiritual causes for human behavior.


Last part first: I have never suggested that ego is something spiritual. It is simply our image of our self. All material and concrete - no magic required.

However, I will not argue that what you are saying is not true. All I am saying is that what is being suggested does not stand up to reality.

Only today I expressed my free will while helping a disabled person attend to some tasks. He had two major items on his agenda. We went to the first place of business and they were unable to respond to his request. I insisted that there must be another way to accomplish what he needed to get done. He was pessimistic as he had never tried it any other way. I am an optimist. There are more than one way to climb a mountain.

Logic told me that if I took a particular path we would be able to complete the task. He remained pessimistic. I proceeded. What my logical thought indicated to me became reality and he was able to complete the task. (And yes, he was extremely thankful afterwards.) If free will did not exist I would have gone with his decision that his task could not be accomplished.

Thing is, most people do not properly understand the concept of free will. It doesn't mean that one can do anything they want to do. There are limiters in everyone's life. More in some, fewer in others'. But within the borders of the limiters there is free will and it is simple to change any intuitional inspirations. (This has much to do with what we were taught when we were young and is still in our subconscious brain.)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sisyphus
Path
Path


Posts : 1484
Join date : 2016-08-06
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:11 pm

kami3 wrote:
Quote :

Nietzsche had a strong ego. But he realized that his ego had gotten too big and this is why he confessed that he could never became a superman. He knew the path but he knew he could not travel it

You really dont get it ? the superman is a state of mind/brain that imply a deep understanding of our own reality, a being with interconnected knowledges that bring a tremendous amount of power to him and accurate visualizations that make him a superior being.

Well, of course. I never said otherwise.

an example of how futuristic his brain was :

“That the Jews, if they wanted it--or if they were forced into it, which seems to be what the anti-Semites want--could even now have preponderance, indeed quite literally mastery over Europe, that is certain; that they are not working and planning for that is equally certain”  Nietzsche (BGE 251, N27).

he understood the visions of the power of both sides and look what happened...this kind of quote can be made only by a superman and believe me , Nietzsche knew himself, and how can he teach the superman without being it, without understanding it, without experiment it ?

I totally agree with the quote.

To your last paragraph, all I can say is that there are those who know the path to the superman but they themselves cannot walk it. They can, however, teach others the way of the correct path. (And this is a teaching in Taoism.) (Not the way to becoming a superman but rather the way to becoming a Sage.)

I won't say that Nietzsche didn't know himself; what I suggested is that he was unable to become a superman.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sisyphus
Path
Path


Posts : 1484
Join date : 2016-08-06
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:17 pm

kami3 wrote:

Quote :
But Nietzsche, consider Zarathustra; When he left this cave in the woods he was hell bent on changing the world. He arrived in the village and found people who wouldn't listen to someone they did not know; they took him for a criminal and locked their doors and windows. It was here that Nietzsche realized his excessive ego and here that he realized that he could not be a superman

Telling to people that they all have the thirst of power, whatever this power looks like to them, is by nature incommunicable to inferior being with "slave morality".

I agree. This is because many people have a false image of their self.

Quote :
And I think also that it was Nietzsche's ill health that prevented him from further developing the concept of the superman.

LOL he was the most prolific philosopher of all time, he wrote everything, in all possible ways(+everything he wrote unofficially, was even better than the books) just for us, inferior beings, to understand the transvaluation and the consequences of it on the mind, it's all written buddy, black on white, his one and only objective was to make this twisted stuff communicable all along.... yep... Smile

There is no absolute truth,  he remplaced the word "truth" by the word "powerness" so that make everything i wrote accurate only at a certain degree of power, same for all of you, and same for all humanity, we are all telling, giving or taking "powernessess".

We measure, judge, compute a "truth" by the amount of power it can bring into us, and....that's it.

google : "i'm a scientist and i don't believe in facts"

“Whatever they may think and say about their "egoism", the great majority nonetheless do nothing for their ego their whole life long: what they do is done for the phantom of their ego which has formed itself in the heads of those around them and has been communicated to them.”

― Friedrich Nietzsche, Daybreak

The fact that 99.9% of the world would agree with you,(most of them religious people by the way) having free will, enjoying it,  make it difficult for you to overcome that nonsense !

'To consider an alternative view, you would have to consider an alternative version of yourself.' It's like a death for the ego so, it is quiet understandable...

google : How political views are 'hardwired' in our brains: Study finds resistance to others' beliefs spurs activity in region linked to 'thinking about who we are"


Basically back to free will. Free will can be the "cause" in the process of "cause and effect". Free will = I want.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
kami3
bowstring
bowstring


Posts : 43
Join date : 2017-03-27

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:28 am

Quote :
Hi kami3, Nice having you aboard. And nice having the challenges to what I posted.

The pleasure is reciprocal !

Quote :

I don't often talk about purpose.

Me neither you know what i meant Smile Nietzsche was a naturalist, so am i, it was a bad term sorry, self actualization = continuous subjective upgrading, i don't think somebody felt becoming dumber without being sick in the entire human history. (you can realize that you were dumber than you tought you were but again, this is an upgrade lol)

Quote :
What I was referring to is that each of us has a different set of capabilities and capacities.

We are not equal on our capabilities and capacities, but our fundamental driving super force is exactly, at the femto-philosophical scale,  the same, our essence,the essence of all things, is "the will to power" and that's it.

Quote :
I have never suggested that ego is something spiritual.

me neither, i made a simplification of how our mind work according to the law of the will to power, i still talking "mind tools" to observe the reality.

Quote :
There are more than one way to climb a mountain.

"On the mountains of truth you can never climb in vain: either you will reach a point higher up today, or you will be training your powers so that you will be able to climb higher tomorrow." Nietzsche

Quote :
Thing is, most people do not properly understand the concept of free will.

There is people that existed 2000 years ago like Plato & co that are far smarter than the average human of today....and they are light years away from the ubermensh. Jordan B Peterson said there is only 1 mind on a billion like Nietzsche, he can not say, like me, that he was the smartest man that ever walked planet earth because of the degree of his comprehension and  they would think of him as a fanatic but it is important to know that he actually was the smartest man , because of the consequences of this capital "information", "truth", "powerness","this subjectiv point of view", on your learning systems, is absolutly phenomenal, your ego just need a proof you can "see"/"understand",  and then you will operate with the best mind tools ever made by a man.
When everybody will understand themselves, understand their selfishness,their will to power,  mankind will be connected into one supermind and people will do generous act for selfish reasons.

Quote :
there are those who know the path to the superman but they themselves cannot walk it.

When you find a great source of power, nothing can stop you from exploiting it, except the ultimate consequences of a wrong judgment of the reality,  if i see money on the ground, i take it.

Quote :
Basically back to free will. Free will can be the "cause" in the process of "cause and effect". Free will = I want.

No, something existed before and before this another thing existed that cause this thing, and you can follow all causes until you loose yourself into the infinity of the past and scientifical mysteries, call it the "event horizon" where everything goes to infinity, cause and effect are "one", there is a "movement" i call it "the will to power".
"This cause that" is not scientific as Richard Feynman explained it perfectly in his last interview about how magnets work.

Somebody know Michael B Brezinsky ?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
kami3
bowstring
bowstring


Posts : 43
Join date : 2017-03-27

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:31 am



Quote :
I have many times stated that most times we will never know all the causes that contributed to a given effect.

Nietzsche said a thought rise not when you want but when "it" want, every thought is an affect that want power at the expanse of other thoughts , i'v said already that the exact same thing happen in our mind than in nature, our thoughts fight each others for supremacy.

Quote :
I don't imagine things.

"Sometime, people don't want to ear the truth because they don't want their illusions being destroyed" Nietzsche

We all imagine things and we all do not want our illusions being destroyed.

Materialistic point of view is not enough to explain 'the movement' of materials, you need to know what is the driving force behind the behavior of materialistic things.

Quote :
I have many times stated that most times we will never know all the causes that contributed to a given effect.

If you see the reality and time as circular, there can not be a "first cause" wich imply supernatural powers, the "movement" of the will to power was always there and will remain as such forever.

Quote :
That was one of Nietzsche's errors.

Like i said, all his concepts are interconnected, if he is wrong there, he is wrong everywhere since everything is based on the will to power.

Quote :
I like to keep things as simple as possible.

Me to but there is simplification and oversimplification

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sisyphus
Path
Path


Posts : 1484
Join date : 2016-08-06
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:39 am

kami3 wrote:
Quote :
Hi kami3, Nice having you aboard. And nice having the challenges to what I posted.

The pleasure is reciprocal !

Thanks.

Quote :

I don't often talk about purpose.

Me neither you know what i meant Smile Nietzsche was a naturalist, so am i, it was a bad term sorry, self actualization = continuous subjective upgrading, i don't think somebody felt becoming dumber without being sick in the entire human history. (you can realize that you were dumber than you tought you were but again, this is an upgrade lol)

I too am a naturalist. As an Atheist there is no other choice. (No free will here.)

Quote :
What I was referring to is that each of us has a different set of capabilities and capacities.

We are not equal on our capabilities and capacities, but our fundamental driving super force is exactly, at the femto-philosophical scale,  the same, our essence,the essence of all things, is "the will to power" and that's it.

I will leave that alone for now as I'm not sure it needs be argued.

Quote :
I have never suggested that ego is something spiritual.

me neither, i made a simplification of how our mind work according to the law of the will to power, i still talking "mind tools" to observe the reality.

Basic agreement here. But keep in mind that some people don't even have a logically functioning brain.

Quote :
There are more than one way to climb a mountain.

"On the mountains of truth you can never climb in vain: either you will reach a point higher up today, or you will be training your powers so that you will be able to climb higher tomorrow." Nietzsche

Good quote.

Quote :
Thing is, most people do not properly understand the concept of free will.

There is people that existed 2000 years ago like Plato & co that are far smarter than the average human of today....and they are light years away from the ubermensh. Jordan B Peterson said there is only 1 mind on a billion like Nietzsche, he can not say, like me, that he was the smartest man that ever walked planet earth because of the degree of his comprehension and  they would think of him as a fanatic but it is important to know that he actually was the smartest man , because of the consequences of this capital "information", "truth", "powerness","this subjectiv point of view", on your learning systems, is absolutly phenomenal, your ego just need a proof you can "see"/"understand",  and then you will operate with the best mind tools ever made by a man.
When everybody will understand themselves, understand their selfishness,their will to power,  mankind will be connected into one supermind and people will do generous act for selfish reasons.

I respect Nietzsche's thoughts. They gave me good soil in which to put my roots. I won't argue him against any other philosopher. But I also like Albert Camus and Chuang Tzu of Taoist Philosophy. Camus and Chuang added nutrients to the soil.

Quote :
there are those who know the path to the superman but they themselves cannot walk it.

When you find a great source of power, nothing can stop you from exploiting it, except the ultimate consequences of a wrong judgment of the reality,  if i see money on the ground, i take it.

I think we really don't have a disagreement here. But some never find that power. Yes, I too would take th money but then I might later give it to someone more needy than I.

Quote :
Basically back to free will. Free will can be the "cause" in the process of "cause and effect". Free will = I want.

No, something existed before and before this another thing existed that cause this thing, and you can follow all causes until you loose yourself into the infinity of the past and scientifical mysteries, call it the "event horizon" where everything goes to infinity, cause and effect are "one", there is a "movement" i call it "the will to power".
"This cause that" is not scientific as Richard Feynman explained it perfectly in his last interview about how magnets work.

Somebody know Michael B Brezinsky ?

I do not know Michael.

I agree with your "cause and effect" in that, working backward, we arrive at Singularity. Can't go any further back than that. However, you failed to include the "will to power", that act that modified or added effect-changing alterations.

While driving, hitting the brakes prevented the accident.

I suppose that, in my understanding, "free will" is synonymous with "the will to power".

Your reference above to "the will to power" I generally refer to as "the process of attaining harmony".


Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sisyphus
Path
Path


Posts : 1484
Join date : 2016-08-06
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:55 am

kami3 wrote:


Quote :
I have many times stated that most times we will never know all the causes that contributed to a given effect.

Nietzsche said a thought rise not when you want but when "it" want, every thought is an affect that want power at the expanse of other thoughts , i'v said already that the exact same thing happen in our mind than in nature, our thoughts fight each others for supremacy.

We have agreement here. Most of our thoughts are random supplied by our subconscious brain. This is a required understanding for those who practice "empty-minded meditation", which I do practice.

Quote :
I don't imagine things.

"Sometime, people don't want to ear the truth because they don't want their illusions being destroyed" Nietzsche

We all imagine things and we all do not want our illusions being destroyed.

Materialistic point of view is not enough to explain 'the movement' of materials, you need to know what is the driving force behind the behavior of materialistic things.

Ah!, we are in disagreement here. I agree with the Nietzsche quote. However, if we remain aware of our reality vs our illusions and delusions they will never cause us any problems. I have said many times elsewhere that I have my delusions but whenever I leave my home the delusions stay at home. I don't want them interfering with my interaction with others when I am out and about.

Quote :
I have many times stated that most times we will never know all the causes that contributed to a given effect.

If you see the reality and time as circular, there can not be a "first cause" wich imply supernatural powers, the "movement" of the will to power was always there and will remain as such forever.

As I have stated, we can work backwards with cause and effect and arrive at Singularity. But we cannot go back any further than that. Chuang Tzu stated that it is useless to consider the question of "first cause". It is a question that cannot be answered. I hold that time is linear but I also hold to the concepts of reversion and cycles. Reversion and cycles are observable everywhere in the natural universe.

Quote :
That was one of Nietzsche's errors.

Like i said, all his concepts are interconnected, if he is wrong there, he is wrong everywhere since everything is based on the will to power.

I don't accept your conclusion here. Especially if we equate "free will" to "the will to power".

Quote :
I like to keep things as simple as possible.

Me to but there is simplification and oversimplification

I don't have a problem with that. If I have made a statement I feel I am required to speak to that whatever in more detail if requested.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
kami3
bowstring
bowstring


Posts : 43
Join date : 2017-03-27

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:58 am

Quote :
that he was unable to become a superman.

That imply that you perfectly now what is a superman , imply that you perfectly know Nietzsche's mind and his concepts, which i doubt.

I mean give the man the credits of being deeply rooted in the world culture,impacting the course of history, being read by millions of millions of peoples, being the official philosopher of a entire nation, being validated by multiple physicist on his cosmological view of the universe and nobody proved that he was wrong, he can be seen already as a superman at this point if we measure his impact on millions of minds.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sisyphus
Path
Path


Posts : 1484
Join date : 2016-08-06
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:09 am

kami3 wrote:
Quote :
that he was unable to become a superman.

That imply that you perfectly now what is a superman , imply that you perfectly know Nietzsche's mind and his concepts, which i doubt.

I mean give the man the credits of being deeply rooted in the world culture,impacting the course of history, being read by millions of millions of peoples, being the official philosopher of a entire nation, being validated by multiple physicist on his cosmological view of the universe and nobody proved that he was wrong, he can be seen already as a superman at this point if we measure his impact on millions of minds.

Hey, lighten up Kami3. I'm not knocking Nietzsche. I respect his thoughts too much. As stated, his thoughts are the earth the roots of my life philosophy are embedded within.

I have never claimed to know his unwritten thoughts. But I have read his written thoughts. He died before finishing his work. Not his fault. Shit happens.

And I won't even suggest that I fully understand everything Nietzsche put down to paper and pen. But my first readings of some of his work gave me great courage. That is, the will to power. But then, that was always within my essence, I just didn't know what it was. Nietzsche helped me to understand and explain it. And it was at that point in time I started calling myself an Anarchist. I was already calling myself an Atheist prior to that time.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
kami3
bowstring
bowstring


Posts : 43
Join date : 2017-03-27

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:56 am

OK the good thing is we know where we blocked in the debate

you said free will = i want

ok :

What do you want ? you want good things>>> something that give your powers over the reality
What you don't want ? you don't want bad things >>>>> something that take away your powers over the reality

this is your "free will"

The only thing you want,is reaching a superior state of being from your point of view of what is a superior state of being, you seek "harmony" like i seek money.

You "like" free will, i "like" the will to power, two different visions that empower us differently, we are in conflict right now and the most powerfull concept should win at a given time.

Thinking free will at your level give you the feeling of a facilitation of your "movement". In your world, the concept "free will" possess the supremacy over his ennemies, free will rule as king and all sub-concepts are subjected to it without questions.

In my world, i have no free will, every thing i do is reaching a superior state of being from my subjective selfish point of view, all my sub-concepts are subjected to it without a doubt, In my world the will to power rule as king.

But we both have hierarchical way of thinking that imply a master thought and slaves thoughts.


Last edited by kami3 on Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
kami3
bowstring
bowstring


Posts : 43
Join date : 2017-03-27

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:48 am

Quote :
He died before finishing his work. Not his fault. Shit happens.

He finished his work by the celebration book Zarathustra, what came after was supplementary time to go further

I have the will to power in two vol. of 450 pages each, i swear he said everything in all possible way, he tested his theory on his entourage and those people were smart, they didnt get it, so he thought damn, those people are super smart but what i bring is incommunicable even to them, he saw that from day one and then a decades of writting to overcome this tremendous difficulty, the concept of incommunicability is all over his books, from human all too human to the genealogy of moral was enough to complete the puzzle !

I knew from one sentence that he was probably the smartest man i could find, when he said "there is only a finite number of forces but time is infinite so all combinations should come back in an eternal return.

Because i thought myself of this and posted about it on scientific forum 5 years before meeting Nietzsche(the post is still there), my bond is very strong as you can imagine, i was like damn in one sentence he solve a super cosmological mystery xD let me check what he brings....
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sisyphus
Path
Path


Posts : 1484
Join date : 2016-08-06
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:48 pm

kami3 wrote:
OK the good thing is we know where we blocked in the debate

you said free will = i want

ok :

What do you want ? you want good things>>> something that give your powers over the reality
What you don't want ? you don't want bad things >>>>> something that take away your powers over the reality

this is your "free will"

The only thing you want,is reaching a superior state of being from your point of view of what is a superior state of being, you seek "harmony" like i seek money.

You "like" free will, i "like" the will to power, two different visions that empower us differently, we are in conflict right now and the most powerfull concept should win at a given time.

Thinking free will at your level give you the feeling of a facilitation of your "movement". In your world, the concept "free will" possess the supremacy over his ennemies, free will rule as king and all sub-concepts a now subjected to it without questions.

In my world, i have no free will, every thing i do is reaching a superior state of being from my subjective selfish point of view, all my sub-concepts are subjected to it without a doubt, In my world the will to power rule as king.

But we both have hierachical way of thinking that imply a master thought and slaves thoughts.

Fair observation. Yes, my free will includes "the will to power".

The will to power includes the tenant of selfishness and therefore I cannot all it to be my supreme tenant. I believe in intuitive action. That is, doing things whereby I gain nothing from the act. In fact, my action could likely put me at a loss. This is why the will to power must be subordinate to free will.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sisyphus
Path
Path


Posts : 1484
Join date : 2016-08-06
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:49 pm

[quote="kami3"]
Quote :
He died before finishing his work. Not his fault. Shit happens.

He finished his work by the celebration book Zarathustra, what came after was supplementary time to go further

quote]

Damn! You got me with that one. I am in total agreement with this statement.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: The Nietzschean Cauldron    

Back to top Go down
 
The Nietzschean Cauldron
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 22 of 24Go to page : Previous  1 ... 12 ... 21, 22, 23, 24  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Before The Light :: Tree :: Interpretation :: Nietzsche Campfire-
Jump to: