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PostSubject: Taste    Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:14 am

I begin this thread by stating what inspired it; that the election should be decided by who of the candidates is in worse taste.

The criteria for taste are qualitative, the degree of taste quantitative -
high taste in efficiency can contradict high taste in grace. Only in a master do they coincide.

Mastery is including disparate beauties in each others selfvaluings (beauty rules by example, and the human, and all of natures entity, is fundamentally beautiful when it properly stands apart/amidst - beauty is the net result of ontic asymmetry) to generate a new taste, a higher will.

I claim that Clinton is worse in taste, mainly because of all the deaths she has on her lawless conscience. My criterion is what I saw during my job as journalist. I have been over the world and seen it, and edited for broadcast the results of war, among other things. I grew up in a society that was gradually changed under Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama from a free society to a closed society. I am in Canada as a refugee from Clintonian actions. In this light, and given that I take offense at nothing of what Trump has most structurally been saying, and qua taste above all that I find his intelligence sophisticated and his spiel hilarious ( I can not take any electoral rhetoric seriously, no accomplished politician ever has taken his own as less or more than rhetoric ), I find Trump a beautiful possibility.

The ugliness that I can perceive indirectly through those that loathe him, is obscured simply by their loathing of what I esteem; the absolute law of Relativity is at work here, when directions are disparate, clarity is only local.

If someone were to point to Trumps ugly side without being affected, then my perspective might change - but how would one arrive at a judgment of something as ugly or beautiful or any quality, without being affected? And how, when affected, would one become neutral in ones opientation ever again? Our first impressions, which is not to say first in time, but in physiology, in the chaotic subtleties of our apperceptive apparatus grouping our mind around it that play out as our character, fate, and taste in power, set us on a course that is entirely natural to us. To tell the story of this course is what a philosopher does, but also in general a human quality; in aesthetics history lives on, not in moral codes (unless they are beautiful, poetically or logically), and this extends to the animal and plant kingdoms. The beauty and the delectable scent of a flower carries all its historicity in the fickle, frivolous invitation to the future. Darwin was misunderstood.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:24 am

The best taste: indulging in things completely opposite to your own nature.


Thus I indulge Trump, Aristotle indulged Alexander. One cannot indulge Clinton in this way. Therefor she is tasteless.


To indulge the things you agree with, that are most like you: that is not tasteless, just bad taste.



 

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A sik þau trûðu


Nisus ait, "Dine hunc ardorem mentibus addunt,
Euryale, an sua cuique deus fit dira cupido?"

Have the gods set this ruling passion in my heart,
or does each man's furious passion become his god?
- Virgil.


It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must
from time to time be present.-- Antonin Artaud
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:49 pm

Hence my appreciation of politics at all.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:08 am

I would like to defend Trump on this recent video release of him saying things about women. Firstly this was secretly filmed; secondly pretty much everyone says "lewd" and objectionable things from time to time; thirdly he was likely just getting into the banter with the other men there, any man knows this sort of thing is quite common. Not saying it is important or anything, just that probably 70-80% of all males do this sort of thing now and then. (I personally think it's stupid to act that way and I actually don't anymore, but a lot of that is due to me changing the environments I'm in and the people I hang around with. )

It doesn't speak to Trump's character, it speaks to the heat of the moment in a certain social context of given and private meaning. That meaning was violated by the video taping, so we are seeing an unrealistic skew, something that "doesn't exist"; we are seeing one context-logic forcibly inserted into another. Again, I'm not defending what Trump said, but I don't have to-- I don't have to defend what 70-80% of males (or for that matter females too) say in private among their friends and peers. Such language is essentially human and unfiltered for public light, and ought to be.

This video of Trump is not on par with the secret video that was released against Romney last time around, when he was speaking to a private gathering of political supporters and fundraisers. In that case the context was still political and "public", but secretly public; it was not a human context and so the video didn't commit an ontological fallacy by transposing the secret public into the open public. But with this Trump video we do have that ontological falsification, and the implication is clear regardless of the content that he spoke: the implication is that we are all of us just as "ugly" and "guilty" as is Trump, for the simple reason that we are human beings. I predict that Zizek will support a view similar to mine here, when it comes to the subject of this secret video of Trump.

The taste invoked here isn't related to the contents of what was said, but to the sheer human "rawness" of the context-dependence and "male and female bantering" sort ideas psyche that is still deeply human. Granted, if Trump actually did what he talked about doing in that video, that would be a serious crime of molestation. Women are very much traumatized by that sort of thing happening to them, there is no excuse for doing it. But there is also no excuse for demanding that the kind of real-earthy human ignorance and raw context-speak which Trump exemplifies here, which most people exemplify at certain times I private, should never take place. I mean we are fucking human beings here, are we not? The only proper response to this video would be to ask Trump if he ever did anything like that, and to remind him how hurtful that sort of thing is to women. But he isn't guilty of some carnal sin here, unless we all are.

 

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"Do you hold out hope, then?" ... "I hold out dignity." ... "She will need opiates before long, for the pain. She will cease being who she is." ... "Then I will love who she becomes."  --Penny Dreadful

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:23 pm

I sent this in PM but I will place it here too:


One thing that bugs me is the image of Trump that has been created by the media. The entire world right now, both the left and the right, is discussing a 10 year old tape of Trump basically saying "yeah I got a lot of money and get laid a lot." While the opposing candidate is married to a man who not only committed adultery and shoved a cigar in a fat Jew's cunt [kek] in the white house, but has half a dozen rape allegations against him, one having been settled out of court for 800,000 dollars. Hillary herself has been caught on tape confessing she knew a child rapist that she was defending was actually guilty, laughing about the fact that she got him off so easily. The women who allege rape against Bill also claim to have been harassed and threatened by Hillary. And not a word about any of that, while the entire world debates a 10 year old comment that Trump made about how easily he gets laid with all the money he's got. Everyone knows the media is biased, but I've never seen bias this incredible and transparent before in my life. This is obscenely out of balance with reality. And this incredible bias has distorted everything because it saturates every single thing Trump does or says. Trump isn't even running against Clinton, he's running against the media. Populism is not inherently bad. And one of the things driving Trump's success is this: the media has become a disgusting cesspit on both sides, left and right, and everyone secretly despises it. Trump is voicing that populist contempt, among other things.



And this is why I have taste for Trump, (I also support many of his policies) my taste for him is based on this: everyone hates him, the entire media hates him, the Bushes and Clintons and Romneys of the world hate him- all the right people hate him. When the entire world rises up against you when you haven't actually done anything, it's a good sign that you're doing some right, not proof, but a sign.

 

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A sik þau trûðu


Nisus ait, "Dine hunc ardorem mentibus addunt,
Euryale, an sua cuique deus fit dira cupido?"

Have the gods set this ruling passion in my heart,
or does each man's furious passion become his god?
- Virgil.


It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must
from time to time be present.-- Antonin Artaud
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:33 pm

Yes I can absolutely agree with that.

 

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"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"Do you hold out hope, then?" ... "I hold out dignity." ... "She will need opiates before long, for the pain. She will cease being who she is." ... "Then I will love who she becomes."  --Penny Dreadful

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:34 pm

Trump is a human being, and human beings are sometimes ugly. Clinto isn't even human and is basically bragging about that.

 

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"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"Do you hold out hope, then?" ... "I hold out dignity." ... "She will need opiates before long, for the pain. She will cease being who she is." ... "Then I will love who she becomes."  --Penny Dreadful

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:01 am

Capable wrote:
Trump is a human being, and human beings are sometimes ugly. Clinto isn't even human and is basically bragging about that.

That caused me a chuckle. Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:26 am

Sisyphus wrote:
Capable wrote:
Trump is a human being, and human beings are sometimes ugly. Clinto isn't even human and is basically bragging about that.

That caused me a chuckle.  Thanks.

Yes it is comedic because it is tragic, because it is true.

 

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"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"Do you hold out hope, then?" ... "I hold out dignity." ... "She will need opiates before long, for the pain. She will cease being who she is." ... "Then I will love who she becomes."  --Penny Dreadful

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:54 pm

Capable wrote:

Yes it is comedic because it is tragic, because it is true.

Actually, I will be making my protest vote again and vote for Jill Stein. Sad really.
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:35 pm

Protest votes are the ultimate vanity when the world is at stake.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:25 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Protest votes are the ultimate vanity when the world is at stake.

I won't deny my vanity but I will not vote for something or someone who I feel will continue to destroy a society that used to be functional.

But I think you may have exaggerated a bit regarding the world being at stake with this election.
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:45 pm

I'm pitting myself fully against Marxism now. Parodites' reading of Hegel, I must admit, has reflected the lives Ive seen lived with Marx in mind. Or as it is with Marx really, at heart; but that is the trick. As Marx discusses and dissects that matters of the heart in a duality. He is 'pure evil', pure divisor. It is right, I have seen this heavily in my family, that Marx negates, and eradicates common values by absolutizing workforce as capital; he dehumanizes, removes the soul from the individual, puts him in economic terms; to raise him up. And it has worked; our world is made up a plebeian culture of educated children. No one has responsibility, as the mechanism will do its job. But a return to Bismarck, pure national intent, occurring, and a return to taste - for ones own 'lack the taste'... honesty, as Capable says; hardly any man is not guilty of such lewdness, or would be if he had the money. Im not sure I would be in that way - but I'd certainly have my way in all sorts of ways. This is un-Marxist as a premise; I am politically now a "Liberaal" - a Netherlandic word that does not mean morally liberal, but a prospecting politics desiring small government. Basically, English/Dutch seafaring ethos, the larger part of what  shaped the enterprising and freedom oriented natures of the Americans.

I am not pitting against Communism. That is a honest to self unionizing of powerful men and women that know that might is right, and could use a bit more money for them and their comrades across the globe. My grandfather was a communist in parliament, a contradiction, but he did give away all his salary to the party and supported five children with a minimum wage for 30 years. When he retired, the party didn't want his money anymore, and he was forced to give it to us. I love communists. But my grandpa never uttered a word about Marx. He knew, he was just a kid shooting nazis who got recruited as party leader. Dumped his gun in a canal when the Canadians came round the block. Marxists.... my other grandmother from my fathers side, she has disavowed my father simply because he spent a good part of his inheritance to take us on a roadtrip through the US, and because he took some of his own baby pictures from the national archive where she had publicized all of his fathers private belongings in the name of the Knowledge and the Revolution. She speaks of these things sparsely and indirectly, looking overcome with sadness and rage, keeping the facts to herself insinuating that she is sparing me a twisted truth about my parents. "The children don't need to know". She is a loon, I love her, she is an artist and she does see my truth in ways only a war hardened woman can (she resisted the nazis by radioing with Moscow, putting her ass on the line for Stalin with her boyfriend, paid an unbearable price). But her priorities arent grounded in reality, except when she looks at the world as an artist.

This is she - whens he paints red, anywhere, you know what that means.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h37IUyfqDRQ

Cant talk down on her for taste. But actually, taste is the only thing that got the fucking Soviet Union together. It does remain the most badasss godless country that ever lived. First men in space, just to prove god wasn't there.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:13 pm

She is a loon in matters of value-differences, she can not accept them; but this hardness is also a diamond like historical clarity. In the 90's she was already telling me, boy they think the religious wars are over.... she was painting a muslims womans portrait at the time, as she always painted lower class people, obviously, Beautiful, hard, tough, straightforward people. Thats how she values, so when she told me that I give her hope, I take that fucking seriously. I'm in it for the artists, not the proletarians - I'm in it for my comrades across the globe.

Tom just told me he regretted ever having wasted time on me because I support Trump and dont agree black people are structurally disregarded at all. Not by me they arent - Im a hip hop producer, and Ive been to Africa and Louisiana and stuff, he has hardly ever left the grassy knowls of Yorkshire. But that's a Marxist - the absolute destruction of true values for an abstraction, that is in the end utterly unrelated to the ground from whence it once came, as fuck, I now get to quite Heraklitus - but I wont.

I'm just gonna build. like Trump, but nicer things maybe.

Russia wants to build a transatlantic highway. Can we just build the fucking thing with them, instead of trying to bring them to their knees like Khan, Napoleon and Hitler tried?

Only in this generation the US starts to produce literature that can compare to Dostoyewsky - it would be wise to let the Russians take over some of the things they are good at, such as utterly annihilating the unclean aspects of religion from their environment. This environment is substantial, and we have put most of its uncleanliness there anyway.

Just spend less money. That is basically all that is required. I know Trump says he wants to raise the budget but what that means is that he wants to spend it more on actual military technology and less on bribing genocidal maniacs and and preparing the last Supper with Russia.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:25 pm

Sisyphus wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
Protest votes are the ultimate vanity when the world is at stake.

I won't deny my vanity but I will not vote for something or someone who I feel will continue to destroy a society that used to be functional.

So you let melancholy determine possibly the fate of billions. (clarifying, not judging)

Quote :
But I think you may have exaggerated a bit regarding the world being at stake with this election.

It is typical then of you to rely on feelings, rather than facts....

There is a poetry to it.  But I cant respect it. And that's great, you know. Really great.

Anyway if you think Trump is destroying a genocidal society that has wrecked my continent, and think thats a bad thing, well you know, - let's not press our points too much.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:46 pm

You cant have all the following three at once, as a nation or empire:

and have a finger in everything that is happening on Earth,
and be physically completely savage about it
and be sanctimonious, and point to the nations you are pressing down on as aggressors.

All three is a sure-fire bomb.

I thence see as all who do not vote for Trump as fascist collaborators, and to the worst fascism the world has ever known at that. I am not however a Marxist, so I dont judge, I have friends of all sorts of convictions, as I know there is only one way to escape the sure trap of ideology, and that is philosophy; one needs only to know precisely why one acts as one acts. It is not a given that the risk with Clinton is evil, at all. It is however entirely fascistic and extremely dangerous.

I am not a Marxist, so I can distinguish the feelings of discomfort in my emotional realm from the atoms in the Earth - I can think about the here and now about what needs to be done - one always solves things locally. To collaborate society away from the fascists. That is all. Collaboration and fascism, as well as voting, are functionalities and activities, not character traits.

As indeed the age of consent in Mexico is 12 and given the state Mexico is in now, it is tasteless not to vote for a wall, or some extra security -. The USAs main export now is scattered limbs and porn, it is not time to get offended at Trumps lewdness. But I inevitably see it from an outside perspective. I want you guys to stop fucking up and remain stewards of the world. Clinton we wont accept, we can't - she doesnt accept us, nor consequences to her actions (logic & reality), nor the borders of Russia. The latter is historically the surest sign of abysmal madness in a politician.

(truly I do not judge personally - I consider it a privilege I have worked hard for but isnt entirely my own work to be above ideological politics.)

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:17 pm

Let me be clear: the nazi regime had a lot of things going for it, which is what Churchill saw - he saw the actual threat to a human way of life, a possibility of something other taking hold - a purely different species where human life is disregarded.

The Bush/Clinton/Obama machinery has dealt with human lives as a harvester machine works a field. I dont like it man, I really dont. That's all I keep coming back at. I wish they werent voted into power again. It makes no sense. But it never did, so....

Im okay with whatever - but I have to do what I can.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:30 pm

The basic problem with the US politics now: 99% of all voters in the US have no real contact at all with the consequences of US foreign policy or military actions.

The US instantiates national self-interest in the purest form: voters here fall along the following lines: either you are well-off, rich or upper middle class and you want to vote in whatever way seems best to keep your status quo standard of life going, or you are poor or lower class and you want to vote in whatever way seems best to disturb your status quo standard of life.

That's really all that is fucking going on here. US politics is absolutely nothing but this (ok there are some silly ideological games also going on all the time, but really that's never going to stop).

 

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"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"Do you hold out hope, then?" ... "I hold out dignity." ... "She will need opiates before long, for the pain. She will cease being who she is." ... "Then I will love who she becomes."  --Penny Dreadful

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:33 pm

US media companies exist for the purpose of isolating the US voting populace from any real world contact that would hold up a mirror to US military and foreign policies. The media has two functions really, one positive and one negative:

Positive function of media: to give you alternately emotionally-provoking and emotionally-deadening images (catering to consumer mentality,bipolar swings of commodification and fetishization upon the unshakable ground of self-alienation).

Negative function of media: to prevent any real-world contact with the real world.

 

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"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"Do you hold out hope, then?" ... "I hold out dignity." ... "She will need opiates before long, for the pain. She will cease being who she is." ... "Then I will love who she becomes."  --Penny Dreadful

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:52 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
You cant have all the following three at once, as a nation or empire:

and have a finger in everything that is happening on Earth,
and be physically completely savage about it
and be sanctimonious, and point to the nations you are pressing down on as aggressors.

All three is a sure-fire bomb.

The inevitable consequences of power. If there is one idea that I disagree with absolutely, it is that "might makes right". We see the consequences of this idea in the US right now, precisely in the three conditions you just listed. Adding a kind of practical dimension of cautious realpolitik to such an idea doesn't in any way alter that idea. Kant was wrong; civilization is philosophically distinct from brutality, there is no real road between them at all (i.e. when one is pressed out of existence the other regains its potentiality for returning to prominence).

Quote :
I thence see as all who do not vote for Trump as fascist collaborators, and to the worst fascism the world has ever known at that. I am not however a Marxist, so I dont judge, I have friends of all sorts of convictions, as I know there is only one way to escape the sure trap of ideology, and that is philosophy; one needs only to know precisely why one acts as one acts. It is not a given that the risk with Clinton is evil, at all. It is however entirely fascistic and extremely dangerous.

Remember that 99% of voters in the US have no idea about the kinds of horrors you have seen and know about as an outsider from the US. You have experiences outside the US, you meet and film people, you know history; these are all things that people in the US simply never have contact with. From within one's living room under the glare of the TV, there is no real reason to be suspicious of US foreign policy and military operations around the world, unless someone on Fox news tells you to be suspicious of Obama or Clinton, or unless someone on CNN tells you to be suspicious of Bush or Trump.

Even the pro-Trump voters here, for the most part, do not give one flying fuck about anyone else in the world beyond America's borders. Do people want a return to nationalism? But the US is already eminently nationalistic, from both sides of the political aisle. Neither nationalism nor internationalism necessarily begets sanity or reason as primary motives or consequences.

Quote :
I am not a Marxist, so I can distinguish the feelings of discomfort in my emotional realm from the atoms in the Earth - I can think about the here and now about what needs to be done - one always solves things locally. To collaborate society away from the fascists. That is all. Collaboration and fascism, as well as voting, are functionalities and activities, not character traits.

I want to distinguish between Marx and Hegel. I also want to distinguish between Marx and Marx (the good philosopher Marx, and the political Marx co-opted by psyche and ideology). It would be like we should damn Heidegger because he became a fascist, or damn Nietzsche because his books were used to justify Nazism. A philosopher is not responsible for the consequences of the truths he releases into the world; or, if he does bear some responsibility here, that fact does not overshadow the truths themselves which are revealed, or the revealing of them. Philosophers speak into the ears of power, across the ages. But power doesn't hear truth, power only hears what power wants to hear. So power is just the unconscious blind bitch of the philosophers.

And "power", that is something that doesn't even fucking exist yet. Having an army is not power, having a microphone is not power, having a billion dollars is not power, having a nuclear arsenal is not power, manipulating world economies is not power. There are three types of people who know what power really is: the philosophers, the artists, and "regular people" -- the first two types understand at the conscious level what power is, the last type only understands at the preconscious level (but therefore still pays fidelity to true power).

Power is truth, which is the human mind, which is meaning and the existentia, which is the earth, which is not only philosophy but everything else; "philosophy and everything else", that is nothing more than the incipient half-conscious grasping for truth. Hell, even philosophy doesn't even exist yet. The single driving intention behind all of my own writings in philosophy is to give birth to philosophy.

Quote :
As indeed the age of consent in Mexico is 12 and given the state Mexico is in now, it is tasteless not to vote for a wall, or some extra security -. The USAs main export now is scattered limbs and porn, it is not time to get offended at Trumps lewdness. But I inevitably see it from an outside perspective. I want you guys to stop fucking up and remain stewards of the world. Clinton we wont accept, we can't - she doesnt accept us, nor consequences to her actions  (logic & reality), nor the borders of Russia. The latter is historically the surest sign of abysmal madness in a politician.

(truly I do not judge personally - I consider it a privilege I have worked hard for but isnt entirely my own work to be above ideological politics.)

I don't know about Mexico, but I can assume (from media exposure of course) that it is hell to live there. Maybe I am wrong, I am sure this image that Trump and the conservative media paint is a biased one. Age of consent does not trouble me too much, I think it is 14 in Canada right? Also the age of consent doesn't really bear upon rape or sexual assault, only in straightforward statutory cases; however, of course 12-14 year olds should not be having sex with adults, that goes without saying. In any case I am no expert here. But I did look it up about porn, I guess China is the #1 consumer of porn (the US is the #1 producer). S. Korea has a per person per year consumption of over $500 for porn. This is an interesting subject, because sex norms and taboos are so deeply ingrained and therefore are made to serve capital so easily. But who am I to tell two 14 year olds they can't have sex with each other? Or even two 12 year olds? Maybe we should replace all age of consent laws with laws prohibiting having sex with anyone over a certain number of years older or younger than oneself, progressively expanding that range as one gets older. Sex is not a crime, but sex enforced by an adult or person with power upon a child or person without power is certainly a crime, and should probably result in public execution.

 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"Do you hold out hope, then?" ... "I hold out dignity." ... "She will need opiates before long, for the pain. She will cease being who she is." ... "Then I will love who she becomes."  --Penny Dreadful

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:32 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
Sisyphus wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
Protest votes are the ultimate vanity when the world is at stake.

I won't deny my vanity but I will not vote for something or someone who I feel will continue to destroy a society that used to be functional.

So you let melancholy determine possibly the fate of billions. (clarifying, not judging)

Quote :
But I think you may have exaggerated a bit regarding the world being at stake with this election.

It is typical then of you to rely on feelings, rather than facts....

There is a poetry to it.  But I cant respect it. And that's great, you know. Really great.

Anyway if you think Trump is destroying a genocidal society that has wrecked my continent, and think thats a bad thing, well you know, - let's not press our points too much.

No, not melancholy, rationality. Why would I vote for something that I thought was destructive? That would be hypocritical.

I rely on facts. Both Hillary and Trump are so self-centered and egotistical that nothing matters to them except how wealthy and powerful they can become. They don't give a shit about America and its laws. They will violate them in a heartbeat if it is in their benefit.

If you can't stand up for something, you own ideals, they you might as well remain seated.

Last year I paid 17% of my income to the government via income tax. Trump paid nothing. Trump had 100,000 times more income than I had. Is that a reflection of a man of honor? Is that a reflection of someone who cares about America?

I stand by the concept that all men (and women) should be treated equally under the law. When it are only the wealthy and power-hungry who make the laws we get today's America. The rules are opposite of what they should be.

America has become what Europe was three hundred years ago. That's progress?


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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:40 am

Fixed Cross wrote:


I thence see as all who do not vote for Trump as fascist collaborators,

I am not a Marxist,

Ironic. Trump would lead America further toward fascism. Not the German style of nation first but a style of big corporations first. More taxes for the working people to give to those who already have great excess.

I will state that Stein is a bit too socialist for my taste but I still see her as a better choice than either Clinton or Trump.
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:44 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
Let me be clear: the nazi regime had a lot of things going for it, which is what Churchill saw - he saw the actual threat to a human way of life, a possibility of something other taking hold - a purely different species where human life is disregarded.

The Bush/Clinton/Obama machinery has dealt with human lives as a harvester machine works a field. I dont like it man, I really dont. That's all I keep coming back at. I wish they werent voted into power again. It makes no sense. But it never did, so....

Im okay with whatever - but I have to do what I can.

So you will vote for Trump because you dislike Clinton more than you dislike Trump. You would still be supporting the system that you are opposed to.
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:50 am

Capable wrote:
The basic problem with the US politics now: 99% of all voters in the US have no real contact at all with the consequences of US foreign policy or military actions.

Agree. But I would also add that Americans are becoming way too self-centered. They care only about "What's in it for me?"

And they want it now!

We are no longer a nation of people but individuals living in the same country.
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:52 am

Capable wrote:
US media companies exist for the purpose of isolating the US voting populace from any real world contact that would hold up a mirror to US military and foreign policies. The media has two functions really, one positive and one negative:

Positive function of media: to give you alternately emotionally-provoking and emotionally-deadening images (catering to consumer mentality,bipolar swings of commodification and fetishization upon the unshakable ground of self-alienation).  

Negative function of media: to prevent any real-world contact with the real world.

Agree. I have been very critical of American media lately. And I feel I am justified in doing so.
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