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Fixed Cross
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:23 am

That's not a protest vote then, but a simple vote for your values. It is important for us to know how much support these other candidates have.

You are an American, I am not. I judge the whole charade from the outside. The irony of it all is massive, surreal beyond everything, that this cozy nation of pumpkinhead carving turkey eaters arbitrarily ravages the worlds other nations for its thanksgiving dinner coziness - but this is self-valuing, this is reality, this is beautiful, and this is Hollywood.

Just dont destroy the entire world.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:58 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
That's not a protest vote then, but a simple vote for your values. It is important for us to know how much support these other candidates have.

You are an American, I am not. I judge the whole charade from the outside. The irony of it all is massive, surreal beyond everything, that this cozy nation of pumpkinhead carving turkey eaters arbitrarily ravages the worlds other nations for its thanksgiving dinner coziness - but this is self-valuing, this is reality, this is beautiful, and this is Hollywood.

Just dont destroy the entire world.

Hehehe. No, I have no intention of destroying anything making short its natural life span.

Okay. We don't have to call it a protest vote. Sure, we can even say that Stein represents more of my values than does Clinton or Trump.

Capable made a good post regarding why he supports Trump. I actually agree with Capable's post.

Yes, my government is doing things right now, and has been for a couple dozen years, that I do not support in any way. And the trend is worsening. The saddest thing is that I think it is too late for any constructive changes. The future of the USA is sealed.
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:49 pm

Reply in 2 parts

Capable wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
You cant have all the following three at once, as a nation or empire:

and have a finger in everything that is happening on Earth,
and be physically completely savage about it
and be sanctimonious, and point to the nations you are pressing down on as aggressors.

All three is a sure-fire bomb.

The inevitable consequences of power. If there is one idea that I disagree with absolutely, it is that "might makes right". We see the consequences of this idea in the US right now, precisely in the three conditions you just listed. Adding a kind of practical dimension of cautious realpolitik to such an idea doesn't in any way alter that idea. Kant was wrong; civilization is philosophically distinct from brutality, there is no real road between them at all (i.e. when one is pressed out of existence the other regains its potentiality for returning to prominence).

In the other thread I meant really that when the Workers & Communists unionized, they did attain might, and that directly translated into rights; hence my use of the provocative expression.

I agree that brutality immediately annihilates civilization; the phenomena are incompatible, witnessing the first within the second annihilates the second. The US is certainly no coherent civilization anymore, but it is a vibrant culture, may be more than ever. But the US has brutalized virtually nations abroad, so no one believes in its agent of civilization anymore, and no one ever will again. Unless, of course, it actually starts building civilizations.... but let's not hold our breath.

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I thence see as all who do not vote for Trump as fascist collaborators, and to the worst fascism the world has ever known at that. I am not however a Marxist, so I dont judge, I have friends of all sorts of convictions, as I know there is only one way to escape the sure trap of ideology, and that is philosophy; one needs only to know precisely why one acts as one acts. It is not a given that the risk with Clinton is evil, at all. It is however entirely fascistic and extremely dangerous.

Remember that 99% of voters in the US have no idea about the kinds of horrors you have seen and know about as an outsider from the US. You have experiences outside the US, you meet and film people, you know history; these are all things that people in the US simply never have contact with. From within one's living room under the glare of the TV, there is no real reason to be suspicious of US foreign policy and military operations around the world, unless someone on Fox news tells you to be suspicious of Obama or Clinton, or unless someone on CNN tells you to be suspicious of Bush or Trump.

This is why I write - I wish to convey to the Americans what the consequences are of the votes they orient on domestic preferences. The whole war on terror was proof that the translation mechanism between inside and outside is utterly broken; nothing of what was enacted outward related to what had happened inside; it only related to a hysteric shame outward, that felt it had to demonstrate its might. The nation is infantile entirely, when it comes to civilization processes outside of itself. Which is perhaps why it identifies so easily and happily with primitive religious tribes, 'freedom fighters' whose human worth is so far below nothing that it causes vertigo.

Sisyphus is right when he says that nothing can rebuild what the US has ruined - but it can now elect Trump, in order to ad least admit that it did something wrong. That all I hear Trump say: we fucked up, sorry guys, so sorry. It feels very right to me what he says. He phrases it in terms making-Great, but what he says in terms of the measures he proposes, is just to stop making the world unlivable.

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Even the pro-Trump voters here, for the most part, do not give one flying fuck about anyone else in the world beyond America's borders. Do people want a return to nationalism? But the US is already eminently nationalistic, from both sides of the political aisle. Neither nationalism nor internationalism necessarily begets sanity or reason as primary motives or consequences.

But I only listen to the proposals Trump makes, and all that pertain to my world, have seemed sound to me.

Obama really has taught me how to listen to politicians. That is perhaps the  most unreliable leader that ever was.

It is not about Nationalist assholes in backwaters knowing how to solve the worlds problems, but about Trump not making war with Russia, as Clinton has Russians preparing for nuclear winter.  That is ninety nine percent of my concern - it's not complex for me. Survival.

The rest is just deep loathing of what Clinton would be doing of she did manage not to turn your country into a wasteland.

And there is a part of me that really, really likes Trump for being human. But seriously, When I say I like Trump, Im saying I like your country and I want to still visit it but I might not make it before November... I wont come if Clinton is elected, Im not walking voluntarily into a concentration camp bound for radioactive ashes...

We knew it was going to come down to a standoff again at one point, this is it. Kennedy won the last one, because the Soviets were carrying some nukes to Cuba, now the US has set up hundreds of nukes at Russias borders and is about to 'increase the pressure' - kek.

I need to get some coffee before I move into the deeper end.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:13 pm

Capable wrote:
I want to distinguish between Marx and Hegel. I also want to distinguish between Marx and Marx (the good philosopher Marx, and the political Marx co-opted by psyche and ideology). It would be like we should damn Heidegger because he became a fascist, or damn Nietzsche because his books were used to justify Nazism. A philosopher is not responsible for the consequences of the truths he releases into the world; or, if he does bear some responsibility here, that fact does not overshadow the truths themselves which are revealed, or the revealing of them. Philosophers speak into the ears of power, across the ages. But power doesn't hear truth, power only hears what power wants to hear. So power is just the unconscious blind bitch of the philosophers.

But I do take Nietzsche responsible, in part, for Nazism, and I think Heideggers nazism is essential to what he is - I do not consider the nazis "evil" - if I would, I wouldnt even know what to call Clinton. The nazis at least had reasons, they were utterly forced into a corner by the idiotic allied nations, and they were at the point of splitting up as a nation, when in Bavaria people managed to prevent that. That was Hitler, and that is how his rise to power began.

M point is that philosophers are absolutely responsible for what their texts cause - that, to me, is a joy and great reason of being a philosopher; the weight of it, the sharpness that the responsibility demands.

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And "power", that is something that doesn't even fucking exist yet. Having an army is not power, having a microphone is not power, having a billion dollars is not power, having a nuclear arsenal is not power, manipulating world economies is not power. There are three types of people who know what power really is: the philosophers, the artists, and "regular people" -- the first two types understand at the conscious level what power is, the last type only understands at the preconscious level (but therefore still pays fidelity to true power).

I would add the scientist, like Newton and Einstein - and the technocratic designer, such as Steve Jobs - I think he too had a fair idea somehow. But I agree that ni politics has had power - at least not in the Christian age. Certainly I would see the Romans differently, and to me, the principle of what power means in terms of self-valuing is basically perfected in Alexander the Great. That is pure power, to me - as as you know I value Homer, and the presocratic philosophers differently than you and Parodites do, I see them as pinnacles. Aristltle to me is a watered down Greek who nonetheless was meritable enough to inspire Alexander, and to substantiate his conquest with a philosophical spirit. But to pioneer like that, to disclose a world, and within that world, to disclose the highest of ones own world, so as to illuminate a continent for millennia. It isnt the military operation, but the superior quality of human experience that conquered then -- as I see it, of course. I wasnt there.

See me as a Homeric philosopher and Alexandrian politician, and you will easily see how I can not reconcile with Marx.

Note, Ive known and trusted him as the most admired man of my family's background, so I don't reject him lightly. But I do reject him absolutely, for the principles I mentioned: he did not address the self-generative logic of the flesh and blood bundle of joy that a creature is, therefore he degraded mankind. Its painful to me to have to put it so bluntly, but I think whereas N and H actually wrote from life, Marx wrote against it. Without intending to, but that isnt relevant.

Also the deaths on the conto of Marxist leaders is about a tenfold that of Hitler, and they were far more premeditated. This is precisely because in Marx, blillions of people are ripped from each other and put into categories that then proceed to annihilate each others values. It really happened -I cant escape that it correlates with the logic.

Nietzschean philosophy was carried over from the puny nazi initiative to the USA, along with all the nazis, and Heidegger too plays a role in these people, for a good part Straussians.

“Nihilism is the rejection of the principles of civilisation as such . . . I said civilisation, and not: culture. For I have noticed that many nihilists are great lovers of culture, as distinguished from, and opposed to, civilisation. Besides, the term culture leaves it undetermined what the thing is which is to be cultivated (blood and soil or the mind), whereas the term civilisation designates at once the process of making man a citizen, and not a slave; an inhabitant of cities, and not a rustic; a lover of peace, and not of war; a polite being, and not a ruffian.”  - Leo Strauss

The point with them is that they know what they are doing and why - Anglosaxon supremacy working with Judaeo Christian norms om the outside and Nietzschean realpolitik on the inside. It's rational, it will not destroy the world, as it has real phenomena as premise, and does not categorize life to process it abstractly and reinsert with prejudice into life - Heraclitus fully negates Marx. Categories can be treated like that, as the principle of identity isnt phenomenologically accurate.

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Power is truth, which is the human mind, which is meaning and the existentia, which is the earth, which is not only philosophy but everything else; "philosophy and everything else", that is nothing more than the incipient half-conscious grasping for truth. Hell, even philosophy doesn't even exist yet. The single driving intention behind all of my own writings in philosophy is to give birth to philosophy.

I respect that as pure ambition and I see you have a vast world to conquer. I now do see quite a number of philosophers and eras as amounting to true philosophy - certainly Greece, three full centuries of it, where I experience the most 'sap'. For me, philosophy has birthed its world when I forged the self-generative self-valuing logic, and I live fully inside of it. My decisions have been based on it since two years now, and I fully dedicate my time to philosophy. I consider Before the Light to be the cradle of this philosophy - not the womb but the cradle, the womb is just life.

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As indeed the age of consent in Mexico is 12 and given the state Mexico is in now, it is tasteless not to vote for a wall, or some extra security -. The USAs main export now is scattered limbs and porn, it is not time to get offended at Trumps lewdness. But I inevitably see it from an outside perspective. I want you guys to stop fucking up and remain stewards of the world. Clinton we wont accept, we can't - she doesnt accept us, nor consequences to her actions  (logic & reality), nor the borders of Russia. The latter is historically the surest sign of abysmal madness in a politician.

(truly I do not judge personally - I consider it a privilege I have worked hard for but isnt entirely my own work to be above ideological politics.)

I don't know about Mexico, but I can assume (from media exposure of course) that it is hell to live there. Maybe I am wrong, I am sure this image that Trump and the conservative media paint is a biased one. Age of consent does not trouble me too much, I think it is 14 in Canada right? Also the age of consent doesn't really bear upon rape or sexual assault, only in straightforward statutory cases; however, of course 12-14 year olds should not be having sex with adults, that goes without saying. In any case I am no expert here. But I did look it up about porn, I guess China is the #1 consumer of porn (the US is the #1 producer). S. Korea has a per person per year consumption of over $500 for porn. This is an interesting subject, because sex norms and taboos are so deeply ingrained and therefore are made to serve capital so easily. But who am I to tell two 14 year olds they can't have sex with each other? Or even two 12 year olds? Maybe we should replace all age of consent laws with laws prohibiting having sex with anyone over a certain number of years older or younger than oneself, progressively expanding that range as one gets older. Sex is not a crime, but sex enforced by an adult or person with power upon a child or person without power is certainly a crime, and should probably result in public execution.

In Canada its been raised to sixteen and there are provisions that kids can have sex with each other.  Mexico has been turned into a hellhole by the drug-trade under the Clinton Bush regimes the past decades. I used to read weekly about mass decapitations and sawed off bodyparts for a decade, then it turned completely dark, the media there have been shut down. I dont think it is much like Canada... you rather have US citizens fleeing north than the other way around, I get the idea. The statistic of 40 percent women arriving raped is truly a matter of grave importance to me. If it is true, Id not only make a wall but retroactively track down all these immigrants and conduct investigations.

Note: I am absolutely not against porn, I am not a fucking zombie or religious fanatic - but I therefore also have no qualms with Trumps truths about golddigger women (as opposed to Clintons deeply sad rape cases, which I can not begin to fathom the pleasure of). Im no stranger to women either, and I quite like the war of the sexes is getting a bit rougher and truer, and less dank and shameful. Did you notice the constitution of that moderator 'woman' at the debate? What kind of species is that? The 'man' wasnt even an entity at all, barely a streak of pale dust. That is what categories to the people who inhabit them; they reminded me of the inbred 25 Jews of Damascus that the Syrian regime forced me to interview to prove that they hadnt killed all of them. That is what I associate Transhumanism with - transience, dissolution, chalky faces, loss of love of earth and creatures of flesh and blood... no squirrels cats or raven, no sweet joys, just dust waiting to happen.

Let dust go to dust without taking all of us... and respect Marx the man but let him rest in peace. I think he needs to be let go of - imagine! Imagine having anything at all to do with those sixty million deaths. If souls live on, which I dont know but I havent seen evidence that they dont, then this guy.... just, this guy.

Beautiful.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:12 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:

But I do take Nietzsche responsible, in part, for Nazism, ...

I must argue that it was not Nietzsche but rather Nietzsche's sister who bears that responsibility.

It is my understanding that Nietzsche would have been against the goals of the Nazis, especially their anti-Semitism.


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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:48 pm

Sisyphus wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:

But I do take Nietzsche responsible, in part, for Nazism, ...

I must argue that it was not Nietzsche but rather Nietzsche's sister who bears that responsibility.

It is my understanding that Nietzsche would have been against the goals of the Nazis, especially their anti-Semitism.



Nietzsche would have loathed every last one of the nazi regime, but he produced materials of which he knew how explosive they were.

It's like the "guns dont kill people, people do" thing - philosophers dont ruin the world, politicians do. I agree with that. But mr Smith and mr Wesson wouldn't be worried that people blame them in part for some kills - I think they would nod, and say yes, we are arms manufacturers. Neither Marx nor Nietzsche would, I think, try to talk themselves out of responsibility for the regimes that used their slogans, let alone for the ones that used their logics. In Nietzsche's case that is the current US, and I am certain that Nietzche would have found this fascinating, and he would be satisfied that he was right about a lot of things.

To Nietzsche, the idea of setting a moral goal without first arriving at health, is wretchedness. Hence, his goals are all supra-moral and exalted to the point of near-abstraction. This is how he beat god at his own game.

Nietzsche only speaks admiringly of the Old Testament Jews. Jesus is treated like a silly young friend. His loathing begins with "Paul the Epileptic".



"I am dynamite"; I reckon he would not be too surprised - as he already saw coming "monstrous experiments of which humanity may perish - oh well!" Consider also that Nazism is technically a form of Marxism, not of Nietzscheanism, which doesnt actually exist as an -ism, as he is a philosopher, whereas Marx is foremost a political instigator who uses philosophical means to the end of compelling people to a moral goal. This is the essence of religion, and of course Marxism is exactly that, a godless religion.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:51 am

Hi Fixed Cross. I can easily accept that response of yours.

I just wanted to point out that I think it is an error to attach Nietzsche with the Nazis. What Nietzsche wrote and then was taken out of context by others after he had died and was unable to dispute was beyond his control.

Taking words of others out of context is nothing new. It was happening way before Nietzsche's time and is still happening today.

And I agree, Nietzsche and Marx are not to be compared. That would be like comparing apples to tomatoes.
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:56 am

Indeed they work with fundamentally different premises. We can only compare some of their premises. It may be useful to do so. I will give it an honest shot, as honestly as I can.

Nietzschean working premises:

- Life is good - life exists because it is (feels) good to itself.
this goodness is power.
- Happiness is in striving, for more of oneself (power, valuing).
- Justice is balance of vigorous powers, beauty, health.
- Health and struggle for power produces difference, splendor, wealth.
- To create hard conditions is the best way of making beings stronger, and to make them stronger is to make them better.
- Passively following  morality is only a form of ill health.
- Morality is only useful as a cultivating principle, as cultivating discipline; Discipline is the real fruit.


Marxist working premises:

- We dont say anything about life. It is not the issue.
- The one who toils beyond enduring it is good, but this is evil.
- Happiness is the opposite of "the human condition". This condition is reality and will be explicated by uplifting the good as a condition of evil and setting off violence.
- Justice is what does not exist now, but will exist after everything is entirely reversed and reversed and reversed until it is each other, and also not.
- What is this "health" you speak of?
- Hard conditions are evil and have a metaphysical duty of disappearing.
- No man shall will for himself, and then all will happen in the right way.
- Discipline is a curse put by Capital on the Proletarian.



Capable may disagree with some of the premises I attribute to Marx, but I am not being rhetorical here, this is what I see.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:15 am

I don't necessarily disagree, I'm neither an expert on Marx nor do I care to be, nor do I care to defend his honor or anything like that. I still think Marx's basic descriptions of how capitalist society functions are essentially correct, up to a point, and this is very important work to elaborate that; but Marx missed the "soul" of the human being and made some faulty moral judgments. I use Marx like I use Nietzsche: for his powerful naturalizing thought and "hard theory" in purely philosophical terms, but where he starts to moralize I just stop reading.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:39 am

Right - The only way to read him is probably to rip him apart and use some of his ideas out of the general context he put them in.

I read N and M differently, as N is the best writer I know, I read him for pleasure, over and over. M I read with distant fascination and some horror, and a bit of melancholy about old Europe.

N is primarily funny - that is the first thing I ever got from him, laughing to tears. He is funny about things that others dont dare even acknowledge as grave realities.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:46 am

Haha yes, absolutely.

One can only read Marx as one reads a technical manual.

Edit: although I have to say there are some nice and funny moments in The Communist Manifesto.

 

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"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." --Parodites

"Between this sky and the faces turned toward it there is nothing on which to hang a mythology, a literature, an ethic, or a religion—only stones, flesh, stars, and those truths the hand can touch." --Camus
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:30 pm

I do have some fondness for the man, he did have a decent character and a form of wit that seemed pleasant, but be took on the greatest force in the universe - the Toil of Man - and did a specific thing to it, which went as far into specificity as to pretend to be just. It was downright indecent.

I meant it, in a sense, what I said about letting Germans into England.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:46 pm

Of course when that time comes Putin is immediately replaced with a war regime, as he is a peacemaker pur sang. Even Trump sees this, just not the Saudis, for the rest the entire world except Dick Cheney or some asshole has accepted it.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:53 pm

To clarify - In Ukraine he has averted being replaced or the war he would have been forced to unleash (rather, the war regime that already almost toppled him to start a war would unleash) if Crimea was lost, and simply maintain his peoples lands and his military bases and his bottom line territory with us all around him. WWI was fought over the Black Sea, we are still in it. Putin is ending it where it started. We need to stop perpetuating this shit, get the hell out of the Middle East where it was purely and only us that caused this depravity, and let things go back to human, and learn to go back to it ourselves, too- though for the entire US media class this is impossible. That is the problem we are faced with. The media consists of people that are bred to scandalize any scandalizable glimpses on what could be realities or lies. By purely hating him, they have funded Trumps campaign. If there is a historical necessity driven by self-negation somewhere, it is in the self-undoing of this anti being. We see the Clinton family go through the most evil suffering - especially Bill. I do feel for him, he is not well. At heart I'm sure they all wish she doesn't win. I'm sure she has no reason to live except to win - and to smile humanly at the human loss that propelled her upward, as lawyer, as governor (look what happened to New York) as secretary of state, (don't look) - as world leader I expect... she will find the meaning of the saying 'less is more'. We'll all find that. "The World" is local, and there are many of it. The Chinese have a different one. It spans more time than ours. We are a blip on their radar and they fully expect us to implode one way or the other, with out megalomanic ideas about our own superiority. They knew they were superior when we were in caves. I too half expected us to implode - but Trump has introduced a form of integrity into politics I had never seen before, an honesty and humanity indeed, but foremost a business instinct to replace sanctimony. True safety on a grand scale is exactly what Trump provides - Unmasked Capital.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:13 pm

Zizeks notion of defecating in public: indeed Freud did say that infants approach their feces as currency and hand it out and throw it around as primordial business proposals.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:19 pm

I reckon this means that the first American Leadership of America has been born.
In this sense Clinton makes sense - to show us all that America was built to be free of. And that it is really not as easy to leave behind as sailing out of Europe -- and perhaps most deeply of all, that the sanctimony of Europe also had its advantages.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:37 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Indeed they work with fundamentally different premises. We can only compare some of their premises. It may be useful to do so. I will give it an honest shot, as honestly as I can.

Capable may disagree with some of the premises I attribute to Marx, but I am not being rhetorical here, this is what I see.

I will let Capable fight his own battles. Hehehe.

I noted in your comparison that Nietzsche is center on the individual whereas Marx is centered on the collective.

My understanding may be incorrect but it is what has always prevented me from considering Marx seriously.
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:42 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Of course when that time comes Putin is immediately replaced with a war regime, as he is a peacemaker pur sang. Even Trump sees this, just not the Saudis, for the rest the entire world except Dick Cheney or some asshole has accepted it.

I love the way you have Dick Cheney and the word "asshole" in the same sentence.
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:46 pm

Sisyphus wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
Indeed they work with fundamentally different premises. We can only compare some of their premises. It may be useful to do so. I will give it an honest shot, as honestly as I can.

Capable may disagree with some of the premises I attribute to Marx, but I am not being rhetorical here, this is what I see.

I will let Capable fight his own battles.  Hehehe.

I noted in your comparison that Nietzsche is center on the individual whereas Marx is centered on the collective.

My understanding may be incorrect but it is what has always prevented me from considering Marx seriously.

I guess that is a valid categorical distinction, yes -  
though Nietzsche's aim also involves collectives, he only perceives them as ends rather than means in the case where they represent a resplendent culture in which all parts are maximally experiencing their natures. To N there is no struggle of class against class, but of classes within themselves to become as noble as possible within their means. This, to me, is what European Communism was - good people cultivating discipline and an intellectual ethics - so that they could prevent the education systems to be torn down by the Marxist Socialists, as they did  in the Netherlands. Communist Marcus Bakker said to Joop den Uyl, the Socialist Prime Minister: So now that the workers have attained the right to learn Greek, you take away the school where they teach it? Then the parliament voted against the law, which would have equalized all schooling. So this Commnunist preserved my (and Sauwelioses) power to become a philosopher - as I am, as a philosopher, entirely classicist, is was Nietzsche.

In the Netherlands thus, Communism preserved Nietzsche from Socialism. This Communist couldnt give a fuck about Marx, he wanted to be a poet, but then the nazis invaded and he joined the resistance which was entirely Communist.

 

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- Thucydides


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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:50 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
I reckon this means that the first American Leadership of America has been born.
In this sense Clinton makes sense - to show us all that America was built to be free of. And that it is really not as easy to leave behind as sailing out of Europe -- and perhaps most deeply of all, that the sanctimony of Europe also had its advantages.

We Americans have no where to go. We (the USA) will either explode or implode.

Freedom for us is being replaced by dependency on our government. How sad!

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:54 pm

There is always hope when there is humanity.

The choice is simple, elemental even. Either a human, or an in-human is elected. If the human is elected, humanity will move to restore itself, as it is far more resilient than a Socialist would have it.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:01 pm

For starters, a couple of trillion Eastern dollars would be released and flow back into the economy, 80 percent of transport costs would be reduced (another couple of hundred billion a term), Russia takes care of ISIS so no more Americans have to die or mask as terrorists - and Trumps make a deal with the Russians about the oil in Iraq, stabilizing the country finally - all these would be normal consequences of letting the reigns go a little bit, which is all Trump wants internationally. He, unlike the Clintons and Cheneys and Rumselds and Bushes, actually believes that other nations too are capable of acting in their own interest, and should be allowed to do so without us spending all our money to make sure it's not going to be done in any way they might choose or develop themselves. Letting humans take any decisions is not allowed under the Freedom Acts which will make sure to tell you what your freedom is to mean to you, if you want a glimpse of it someday.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:11 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:


though Nietzsche's aim also involves collectives, he only perceives them as ends rather than means in the case where they represent a resplendent culture in which all parts are maximally experiencing their natures. To N there is no struggle of class against class, but of classes within themselves to become as noble as possible within their means. This, to me, is what European Communism was - good people cultivating discipline and an intellectual ethics - so that they could prevent the education systems to be torn down by the Marxist Socialists, as they did  in the Netherlands. Communist Marcus Bakker said to Joop den Uyl, the Socialist Prime Minister: So now that the workers have attained the right to learn Greek, you take away the school where they teach it? Then the parliament voted against the law, which would have equalized all schooling. So this Commnunist preserved my (and Sauwelioses) power to become a philosopher - as I am, as a philosopher, entirely classicist, is was Nietzsche.

In the Netherlands thus, Communism preserved Nietzsche from Socialism. This Communist couldnt give a fuck about Marx, he wanted to be a poet, but then the nazis invaded and he joined the resistance which was entirely Communist.

I could easily be accused of being excessively anti-Communist and even excessively anti-Socialist. But those are based in the most part on my personal experiences in life.

I like that first sentence. That thought never occurred to me. But yes, it seems to be true.

And no, we don't need to burn the books. But we do need correct the errors in them.

Educating the people is important. Europe found that out during their Dark Ages. But not education dictated by government. No, No!

I don't claim to be a philosopher but I do enjoy discussing philosophies of life. I am a member of a Taoist Forum and occasionally I have to remind those I speak with that I am a Philosophical Taoist, not a Religious Taoist.
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:13 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
There is always hope when there is humanity.

The choice is simple, elemental even. Either a human, or an in-human is elected. If the human is elected, humanity will move to restore itself, as it is far more resilient than a Socialist would have it.

True that. If Clinton is elected, watch out Marx, here we come.
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:18 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Letting humans take any decisions is not allowed under the Freedom Acts which will make sure to tell you what your freedom is to mean to you, if you want a glimpse of it someday.

Our Patriot Act was and still is so sick I am ashamed of my government. Even Obama, who spoke against it has only tried to make it stronger so to deny Americans of more of their freedoms.
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