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Fixed Cross
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:19 pm

I have much respect for Taoism, also as it has produced many great methods of power.  My path was formed by Zen, which is deeply anti-religious, at least the path I walked.
It consists of observing, and taking immense joy, also physical, in doing that without mentally construing.

Zen Koans often speak to me of this silence, this just-watching or just-hearing.

The hills are covered in mist
A bell rings in the distance

Often politics is the attempt to walk other peoples paths for them. But people want not to just walk paths, but make paths. Some do anyway, and those that want it tend to accomplish it, even though they are invariably resisted by almost all the ones they will end up benefiting.

 

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- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:24 pm

But for me, the most potent philosophy of Zen is that of the Dogen, who is Japanese.
He introduced the Zen of Action. This is the notion that purity of existence can only be attained in a complete action.
This had its structural influence from and on Japanese martial ritual, martial arts, and ethics in general.

To initiate an act with pure intent, and to follow it through without any duplicity, through to the very end. This is Being, to the Dogen - and he says that all beings are rooted in themselves.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:32 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
I have much respect for Taoism, also as it has produced many great methods of power.  My path was formed by Zen, which is deeply anti-religious, at least the path I walked.
It consists of observing, and taking immense joy, also physical, in doing that without mentally construing.

Zen Koans often speak to me of this silence, this just-watching or just-hearing.

The hills are covered in mist
A bell rings in the distance

Often politics is the attempt to walk other peoples paths for them. But people want not to just walk paths, but make paths. Some do anyway, and those that want it tend to accomplish it, even though they are invariably resisted by almost all the ones they will end up benefiting.

The Taoist forum has a number of members who walk the Zen path.

I feel the same way about religions as you stated about politics. I don't have much use for either.

I can honestly say that I have walked my own path. Sure, it got pretty bumpy at times but that's life, isn't it?
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:34 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
But for me, the most potent philosophy of Zen is that of the Dogen, who is Japanese.
He introduced the Zen of Action. This is the notion that purity of existence can only be attained in a complete action.
This had its structural influence from and on Japanese martial ritual, martial arts, and ethics in general.

To initiate an act with pure intent, and to follow it through without any duplicity, through to the very end. This is Being, to the Dogen - and he says that all beings are rooted in themselves.

Yeah, That's very Taoist. Hehehe.
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:52 pm

[ That is pure power, to me - as as you know I value Homer, and the presocratic philosophers differently than you and Parodites do, I see them as pinnacles. Aristltle to me is a watered down Greek who nonetheless was meritable enough to inspire Alexander, and to substantiate his conquest with a philosophical spirit. ]

I will get back on this topic soon, but just a quick point on that: I also value the pre-socratics; I too see both Aristotle and Plato as occurring after the distortion to the original Doric revelation, as watered down in that sense. As I said here:



---

At the first revelation of the transcendent order, each philosopher intuited a unique image of Being, [hence the independence of each vision of the pre-Socratic philosophers, from Heraclitus to Parmenides, etc.] and this intuition became the mythos, the original, infinitely fertile and creative mythic consciousness in which the human Word grounds itself in its own operative capacity. Schelling says that Nature "stupified" the Doric mind, and from this induced silence or passivity of thought, the Gods appeared: the mythos in essence arises as an autofiguration of man's place in nature and nature's place in man- as cosmos. That is what the Gods are, living symbols: the gods are liminal boundaries upon which the sensible crosses over into imaginative, and the transcendent crosses over into the immanent.


[ As limen to the transcendent, human thought is its own illusory center and
boundary, self-evaporating at the margin of experience, whereon it is drawn up through
the scale from nihility to Being as Jean Wahl indicated, gaining if no real content about
the world in which it is estranged, then at least the words with which to pronounce its
solitude ... ]

Levi-Strauss calls this the break in consciousness needed to bring about representative power or logic- the logos, the complimentary faculty to the mythos. The mythos, through which man recognizes his own creative potential and infinitude in the order of Nature, while simultaneously recognizing within himself the power-active of the natural world, when bound to the logos, inaugurates the mythologos or mythology in its self-grounding: the first basic episteme emerges, the Ontos, as man hypostatizes his own essence as the essence of nature and vice versa, and with that episteme a true image of Being was formed, that is, a philosophy.
---

 

___________
A sik þau trûðu


Nisus ait, "Dine hunc ardorem mentibus addunt,
Euryale, an sua cuique deus fit dira cupido?"

Have the gods set this ruling passion in my heart,
or does each man's furious passion become his god?
- Virgil.


It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must
from time to time be present.-- Antonin Artaud
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:56 pm

" The basic problem with the US politics now: 99% of all voters in the US have no real contact at all with the consequences of US foreign policy or military actions. "


Well we do have contact with the not having any money part of the consequences, because the government spent it all on its foreign policy.

 

___________
A sik þau trûðu


Nisus ait, "Dine hunc ardorem mentibus addunt,
Euryale, an sua cuique deus fit dira cupido?"

Have the gods set this ruling passion in my heart,
or does each man's furious passion become his god?
- Virgil.


It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must
from time to time be present.-- Antonin Artaud
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:25 pm

Parodites wrote:
[ That is pure power, to me - as as you know I value Homer, and the presocratic philosophers differently than you and Parodites do, I see them as pinnacles. Aristltle to me is a watered down Greek who nonetheless was meritable enough to inspire Alexander, and to substantiate his conquest with a philosophical spirit. ]

I will get back on this topic soon, but just a quick point on that: I also value the pre-socratics; I too see both Aristotle and Plato as occurring after the distortion to the original Doric revelation, as watered down in that sense.

All the values of my youth were concentrated in the Doric, as soon as I first sensed its quality in school. I somehow had the impression that you saw in Socrates a culmination of sorts, though I was always clear on your valuing of the Presocratics due to the phenomenological nature of your philosophy, whereas Socrates is linguistic, systemic, dialectic, and is a figure that I approach only with the greatest mockery, as that is also how he approaches others. He always presumes he is right, but he always pretends that he agrees at first. A sneaky scoundrel... who frames other peoples premises in such a way that he can negate them, using logics entirely alien to these peoples values. I never understood why he had such renown.

Quote :
As I said here:

---

At the first revelation of the transcendent order, each philosopher intuited a unique image of Being, [hence the independence of each vision of the pre-Socratic philosophers, from Heraclitus to Parmenides, etc.] and this intuition became the mythos, the original, infinitely fertile and creative mythic consciousness in which the human Word grounds itself in its own operative capacity. Schelling says that Nature "stupified" the Doric mind, and from this induced silence or passivity of thought, the Gods appeared: the mythos in essence arises as an autofiguration of man's place in nature and nature's place in man- as cosmos. That is what the Gods are, living symbols: the gods are liminal boundaries upon which the sensible crosses over into imaginative, and the transcendent crosses over into the immanent.

Yes, I thought about this, it appears wholly right to me - and Nietzsche is that silence somehow speaking itself, and its reasons... not yet the Doric itself, but the passion became tenable, palpable again. At the same time other philosophers unveiled other aspects of the silence as it had grown into a soul; Schelling clearly, Leibniz also, Goethe, - the Germans most notably, who carry on the grammatical system of the Greeks and Romans - as indeed did the Russians, who are also geniuses of Christianity, and of keeping power inside their values.

Quote :
[ As limen to the transcendent, human thought is its own illusory center and
boundary, self-evaporating at the margin of experience, whereon it is drawn up through
the scale from nihility to Being as Jean Wahl indicated, gaining if no real content about
the world in which it is estranged, then at least the words with which to pronounce its
solitude ... ]

Levi-Strauss calls this the break in consciousness needed to bring about representative power or logic- the logos, the complimentary faculty to the mythos. The mythos, through which man recognizes his own creative potential and infinitude in the order of Nature, while simultaneously recognizing within himself the power-active of the natural world, when bound to the logos, inaugurates the mythologos or mythology in its self-grounding: the first basic episteme emerges, the Ontos, as man hypostatizes his own essence as the essence of nature and vice versa, and with that episteme a true image of Being was formed, that is, a philosophy.
---

I see the same outlines - this offers me a bit more than I already saw, namely something which has the Yellow Emperor appear in my third eye, and the dragon-clan, the mythos that turned into the logos of the meridians, the body itself, the dance of yin and yang currents - and into a symbolic-representative script - all this followed a process that perhaps we, in this new transition, can use the tools of, to launch ourselves into a greater whole, an actual process, so that the Ontos can once again emerge as horizon.

I say this with confidence since the west has already been entirely impregnated with eastern logics and all that is needed is to place everything in context, i.e. Eros as bound for explication.

Tools, I say - not ends or primary values.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:01 am

I wish I could speak with Y'all of the early Greeks and Romans but my knowledge is very lacking. Yes, I have read some but my mind was not ready to absorb any of it. It wasn't until Nietzsche found me that I was able to disregard the Christian teachings of my youth.

For me Nietzsche was the first philosopher of my reading who spoke to reality as I had been experiencing it. This was in the mid-1980s. But there was still an emptiness for a complete life philosophy. I don't know if the lacking was because of Nietzsche or of me.

But then Taoism found me and a completeness was formed. There is no longer a need for gods - no longer a need for the supernatural.

And now, rather sadly, there is no reason for me to go back and read the early Greeks and Romans. But then, Nietzsche included much of those philosophies in his writings.

But I will do my best to interact with Y'all regarding my understandings of Nietzsche and Taoism.


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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:56 am

Taste is the restructuring of the cosmos on the most subtle level it has attained.

Molecules hook into each other, produce compounds that go through processes together and leave behind the Human - who is a function of this process taste, and its spear -head.

Taste is the most powerful, most comprehensive mechanism the cosmos has come up with to cohere. It coheres us in time, and allows for hiatuses between connected beings,  for time and being to pass between, without separating them.

Taste is the re arrangement of compounds into stronger self-valuings. Self-valuing strength is not in brute force, but in the opposite, in subtle distribution of value compounds: a good taste is that which can integrate many different compounds into an integer whole of being and time - an organism is not merely a reflection of the cosmos, but it is a product of its most finessed potency and wealth and separation of the first principle into various manifestations.

As we humans discover it higher and higher,  the principle of self-valuing is hooking into molecular processes and resources so vast, that it expresses now in the subtlety of refinement of human taste, which is so complex and so deeply layered in that subtlety that it can most easily be deranged, perverted, exploded into all sorts of cruder force - our ways of banalizing ourselves, they are the excess of the immense subtle refinement of taste, which has been gathering its units, its tasters, for hundreds of millions of years, to have them taste each other in deeper and deeper ways, and therefrom the develop even deeper and more pervasive tastes - organizing hearts, centers, standards to Being 'beyond god' - god was a substitute for good taste, thus of courage, intelligence, and refinement. All of these come together in self-knowing, know thyself is simply to discover the full scope of the principle taste, and to rediscover oneself as a function of it, with the power to become an active force of it.

Napoleon is a sophisticated taste, Nietzsche is that, so is Parodites and all us philosophers - we assemble the cosmos into connecting to itself, develop a taste for itself - this is what we do, this is what 'we are being done' - pioneers of taste, only the bravest refined ones can be employed on that frontier.

The frontier of taste - the deepest cosmic horizon, the one that recedes slowest.

::

The taste of their organic host and end awakens in atoms the will to live, to be alive - it draws from them with such consistency and versatility their force, that they become 'animated' from outside - they become part of a dance that awakens their inner force, which is a blind self-valuing concentration, into something not quite blind.

I just realize this, that a man of strong taste is pulling the nature of his very atoms into that process - this what chemistry is, it is a building-upward of coherence from the potential that lies within, downward, compressed into near-oblivion - any atom holds the potential to be moved indefinitely into a subtle molecular dance, that engages it more and more into a complex process, of which it will finally come to be a proper function, as all of its excesses are structurally mobilized into integrating with other excesses to teach this experience of good taste - 'what atoms want' - they have to be taught, by the very same things the most privileged families teach themselves.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:14 am

Any change in taste, is a radical transformation of molecular bonds, thus of atomic self-valuing in the organism - you can easily sense if the change is for a greater or lesser subtlety, meaning a stronger or weaker self-valuing -

the loss of taste for the gods in Greece was a loss of taste, of coherence - what replaced it was a faux universalism that is merely to be seen as the acknowledgement that for the time to come, real being, (namely increasing taste) had become impossible.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:07 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
Protest votes are the ultimate vanity when the world is at stake.

Or the ultimate necessity.
It would just depend on who is protesting and what they are protesting about.

 

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Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Taste    Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:20 am

It is an idealism that is willing to sacrifice the world - this is what I have against monotheist religions, and the secular moralities that follow from them when the gods die in an onslaught of scientific revelation - that they always put a hallucination of their own resolved moral pain, a 'superior morality' above the world, and are perfectly willing to have the world go down in hell just to be able to have that satisfaction of putting a little cross under a name that they feel a little chill about.

This is why mankind will eventually do away with representative democracy; voter idealism. Entitled people in dire times structurally vote for the right to be a little baby with no responsibility for their own lives, or the lives they are influencing with that vote. At least anonymous voting should be abolished, as anyone who votes in truth, for the right to fight for his values, votes with pride.

 

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- Thucydides
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