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 Christians need weird fantasies

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Thrasymachus
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PostSubject: Christians need weird fantasies    Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:44 pm

Christians secretly fantasize about the end of the world. This fantasy is the capstone of the New Testament. Christians today apply this emotional need-fantasyland in weird ways, such as conspiracies or to their political beliefs. In a deeper level a Christian is a hypocrisy of needing to act with full intensity of "Jesus-love and faith-investment in life" while also at the same time discounting the meaning of everything he does because of the coming End of the World. Everything has absolute meaning and no meaning, at the same time.

This impossibility of clear values-acting comes across as the Christian's "charm-naïveté" and veneer of innocence, a veneer that is easily pierced by forced reality contact and converted into rage, in all except the most Buddhistic Christians. Their ignorance is absolutely necessary to defend against the ever-present possibility of Rage.

What is the source of weird Christian fantasies? I think it is inherent to ideology to have this kind of thinking-feeling. When we force ourselves to state allegiance to beliefs we know are unjustified, that is bound to do strange things to a person. The end of the world is a redemptive justice and an "ah I told you so!" cop-out for those too afraid to live life. Someone said that only atheists can be Christians and only Christians can be atheists-- Lol.

New direction now: Our beliefs create conscious-subjectivity in the most literally possible way: the beliefs amass into a substance physical ground that is what "conscious subjective" really means. Individual beliefs emerge from the ground of believing which is the ground of all "beliefs" as sum. From a young age we are loaded up with "facts" (the sky is blue, 2+2=4, you spell 'cat' like C-A-T, this right here is an apple, etc.) and these pool and stick together to create a sticky ocean-swamp of believing-ness. Individual beliefs are like bubbles in the muck, they rise and pop and make us aware of them even as they break with the believing-ground. But then the belief which was the popping bubble settles its element with back into the ground and they dissolve into the muck to become just more unconscious believing-mud.

Christians operate by attempting to freeze the popping bubbles just before they pop and at maximum volume. This so other rising bubbles can be easily ignored. This is will power in the Christian sense, and Christian fantasy is the ability to see images of bubbles that aren't there anymore and to use those images to ignore real and risings bubbles. The tension in the almost bit not quite popped bubble becomes the form of Christian imagining-fantasy. A million forgotten facts tectonically articulate a mud-ground; air pressure and mud-currents force bubbles that pop; we notice the popping sounds and call that "consciousness". The Christians goes a step further and imposes vertical image-fantasies which arrest the surface of the mud, trying to freeze it in time; thus the Christian is always approaching the possibility of pure unconsciousness as mental stasis. God is "timeless" and Jesus the retroactive hero who brings winter to the mud-pit.

 

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"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." --Parodites

"Between this sky and the faces turned toward it there is nothing on which to hang a mythology, a literature, an ethic, or a religion—only stones, flesh, stars, and those truths the hand can touch." --Camus

"It is a tedious thing to be always beginning life; they live badly who always begin to live." --Seneca

"I kick ass, all these other humans suck balls." --Inmendham
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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:53 pm

Anyone raised to be Christian will spend the rest of his life trying to destroy that Christian element in himself; namely his own childhood, which now is just memory. Philosophy is the only thing unhindered by long term smoking and drinking, for example. Only the emotions breakdown into nothingness as memory is liquidated and good feelings die, in order to remove the Christian core of childhood. But most people are too afraid to do that, they don't like pain or are too unconscious to feel it, and just become disbelieving Christian actors, "atheists" (non-thinkers).

Atheism is the antithesis of philosophy, but only because Christianity is both bullshit and shoved down the throats of children.

 

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"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." --Parodites

"Between this sky and the faces turned toward it there is nothing on which to hang a mythology, a literature, an ethic, or a religion—only stones, flesh, stars, and those truths the hand can touch." --Camus

"It is a tedious thing to be always beginning life; they live badly who always begin to live." --Seneca

"I kick ass, all these other humans suck balls." --Inmendham
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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:54 pm

Interesting you started this discussion today because today I was visited by two Witnesses.

They are nice people so I do try to return their niceness.

One asked me about Heaven and Hell and I said I don't believe in such things. (I really don't.)

Then one wanted to read something from the Book of Revelations and I said I don't believe a single thing that is written in that book.

But fantasy is what makes up nearly all religions, not just the Christian religions. For example, Islam with the 47 or however many virgins when you die fighting for your religion.

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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:21 pm

I have a hard time considering such people to be human.

 

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"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." --Parodites

"Between this sky and the faces turned toward it there is nothing on which to hang a mythology, a literature, an ethic, or a religion—only stones, flesh, stars, and those truths the hand can touch." --Camus

"It is a tedious thing to be always beginning life; they live badly who always begin to live." --Seneca

"I kick ass, all these other humans suck balls." --Inmendham
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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:26 pm

Capable wrote:
I have a hard time considering such people to be human.

Hehehe. I know. We sometimes have to open our mind a little bit more when in association with those types of people. (Don't have to agree with them though.)

I did tell them that the next time they come over they have to listen to me telling them a bit about Taoist beliefs. (That might keep them away.)
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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:48 pm

This might have to do with the fact that Christ, in what was passed along, constantly was telling that man has a direct link to god, whereas the Church is the precise antithesis of that statement. It's a fantasy that doesn't even have the power to play itself out in the mind, as it is instantly thwarted by its own setup.  Ive never been able to discern a possible relation between the notion of Christ, and the institution of a Church. It's fucking bizarre. I can see Islam as just a single clumsy attempt to resolve this bizarreness - but of course the bizarrity of Christinanity is precisely because it offers a challenge to the mind, much higher than the placid obedience to the greatest morons that happen to be alive at any time that Islam is.

In as far as Christ is a god, a power, or a physician, he is related, it seems, to Apollon. He might be seen as an Apollon who came down from his pedestal, and got down and dirty with humans. Perhaps out of curiosity for his brother Dionysos' experiences with that seedy soil "Man".

 

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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:54 pm

The immeasurably feeble hearted muslim storytellers have made this out of the Christian myth; Jesus is a good guy so he cant have been crucified: insttead god gave Judas the appearance of Jesus, so that he, being evil after all, would be crucified.

And all was right in the muslim soul.
Im sorry but to me, Christianity and its mysterious and very shocking myth is indeed divine when compared to that other 'version'.

A lot of Christians that I respect have been alive. Newton being the most prominent one to my own soul. In Islam, since the 11th century, for a human to practice logic has been qualified as in direct violation with the will of god, as the nature and relations of things can only be revealed by direct divine revelation.

It is thus purely the religion of debilitation. The deification of stupidity. Christianity does not come close to being as stupid as that - though being so weird and impossible, and being enforced on children, it is still as far from sound as institutions get.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:07 pm

Sisyphus wrote:
Capable wrote:
I have a hard time considering such people to be human.

Hehehe.  I know.  We sometimes have to open our mind a little bit more when in association with those types of people.  (Don't have to agree with them though.)

I did tell them that the next time they come over they have to listen to me telling them a bit about Taoist beliefs.  (That might keep them away.)

Anyone who says "I'm here to talk to you about Jesus" and really means "I have THE answers and if you disagree that I have THE answers then you're going to hell" is absolutely not a human being.

 

___________
"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." --Parodites

"Between this sky and the faces turned toward it there is nothing on which to hang a mythology, a literature, an ethic, or a religion—only stones, flesh, stars, and those truths the hand can touch." --Camus

"It is a tedious thing to be always beginning life; they live badly who always begin to live." --Seneca

"I kick ass, all these other humans suck balls." --Inmendham
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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:11 pm

Islam as attempted rectification of the dichotomy "Christ vs church (institution)", haha god damn this is accurate. Let's add something into this category: Luther-ism. Of course this includes Calvans and all protestants and Church of England. The abandonment of the "divine" daemonic dialectic between "Christ" and "institution of Christ".

 

___________
"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." --Parodites

"Between this sky and the faces turned toward it there is nothing on which to hang a mythology, a literature, an ethic, or a religion—only stones, flesh, stars, and those truths the hand can touch." --Camus

"It is a tedious thing to be always beginning life; they live badly who always begin to live." --Seneca

"I kick ass, all these other humans suck balls." --Inmendham
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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:12 pm

Maybe the dialectic here wasn't working for them, so they abandoned it. Or maybe they are just anti-philosophical cowards.

In any case let's reinterpret Protestants as quasi-Islamic.

 

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"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." --Parodites

"Between this sky and the faces turned toward it there is nothing on which to hang a mythology, a literature, an ethic, or a religion—only stones, flesh, stars, and those truths the hand can touch." --Camus

"It is a tedious thing to be always beginning life; they live badly who always begin to live." --Seneca

"I kick ass, all these other humans suck balls." --Inmendham
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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:16 am

Fixed Cross wrote:

In as far as Christ is a god, a power, or a physician, he is related, it seems, to Apollon. He might be seen as an Apollon who came down from his pedestal, and got down and dirty with humans. Perhaps out of curiosity for his brother Dionysos' experiences with that seedy soil "Man".

Yeah, considering that Christianity came to the West through Greece it is understandable that there will be a lot of Greek concepts within Christianity.

And, of course, there are the added stories that make the belief system so much more powerful.

I feel that Islam just got most of the translations wrong. They gave too much power to "man" so that the follower actually become a demi-god. If we look at the activists today we should be seeing the Devil instead of a God.
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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:20 am

Capable wrote:

Anyone who says "I'm here to talk to you about Jesus" and really means "I have THE answers and if you disagree that I have THE answers then you're going to hell" is absolutely not a human being.

Yeah, I got really pissed off when that preacher boy said that to me.

I told the Witnesses about that and even they agreed that he was totally wrong in saying it.
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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:22 am

Capable wrote:

In any case let's reinterpret Protestants as quasi-Islamic.

I'm with John Lennon: Lets imagine no religions.
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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:07 am

I'm not really anti-religion, I just call it like I see it.

 

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"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." --Parodites

"Between this sky and the faces turned toward it there is nothing on which to hang a mythology, a literature, an ethic, or a religion—only stones, flesh, stars, and those truths the hand can touch." --Camus

"It is a tedious thing to be always beginning life; they live badly who always begin to live." --Seneca

"I kick ass, all these other humans suck balls." --Inmendham
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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:04 am

Capable wrote:
I'm not really anti-religion, I just call it like I see it.

Well, neither am I. Kinda'. I do speak out against the institutions of religion though.
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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:41 am

Capable wrote:
Maybe the dialectic here wasn't working for them, so they abandoned it. Or maybe they are just anti-philosophical cowards.

In any case let's reinterpret Protestants as quasi-Islamic.

Haha, absolutely.

No problems with that.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:15 pm

Sisyphus wrote:
Capable wrote:

In any case let's reinterpret Protestants as quasi-Islamic.

I'm with John Lennon:  Lets imagine no religions.


What then would replace organized religion?



 

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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:38 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
Sisyphus wrote:
Capable wrote:

In any case let's reinterpret Protestants as quasi-Islamic.

I'm with John Lennon:  Lets imagine no religions.  

What then would replace  organized religion?

Nietzsche had that same question/problem, didn't he?

Understanding nature and living in accord with it might be a big step forward.
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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:18 pm

A rebirth of Epicureanism, then?

 

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"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." --Parodites

"Between this sky and the faces turned toward it there is nothing on which to hang a mythology, a literature, an ethic, or a religion—only stones, flesh, stars, and those truths the hand can touch." --Camus

"It is a tedious thing to be always beginning life; they live badly who always begin to live." --Seneca

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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:08 am

Capable wrote:
A rebirth of Epicureanism, then?

For me, Yes. That is what led me to Taoism.
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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:06 am

Much better than Christianity, definitely. Epicureanism I mean.

The easiest way to hack a Christian is to simply ask: "What reason do you have to think your Christian beliefs are true? Explain and argue your reasons for believing and you might even convince me!" Of course they have no reason for their beliefs, other than someone once told them to, because there is no reason to believe that fairy tales are true.

 

___________
"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." --Parodites

"Between this sky and the faces turned toward it there is nothing on which to hang a mythology, a literature, an ethic, or a religion—only stones, flesh, stars, and those truths the hand can touch." --Camus

"It is a tedious thing to be always beginning life; they live badly who always begin to live." --Seneca

"I kick ass, all these other humans suck balls." --Inmendham
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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:11 pm

Capable wrote:
Much better than Christianity, definitely. Epicureanism I mean.

The easiest way to hack a Christian is to simply ask: "What reason do you have to think your Christian beliefs are true? Explain and argue your reasons for believing and you might even convince me!" Of course they have no reason for their beliefs, other than someone once told them to, because there is no reason to believe that fairy tales are true.

Agree. Most will pop the natural self-defense "I have faith."

And it's not only the Christians. Islam is even worse.

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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:50 pm

The reason the north of Europe went for Luther is that Cahtolicism was simply the inquisition; if you did not pay 10 percent of your profits to the church, you were burned at the stake. Lutherans were against the practice of buying salvation. We spent 80 years of continuous war against these Jesuitic monsters to get our country back, we call it 'the 80 year war', it is the Netherlands founding history.

The reasons for Luther were inevitable causes, but the nature of Luther is not therewith redeemed. Not at all. His text, the one he nailed on to the church door, is about the sickest piece of ethos ever produced.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:03 pm

I was raised a Lutheran but lost that while I was still a teenager.
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PostSubject: Re: Christians need weird fantasies    Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:11 pm

Sisyphus wrote:
I was raised a Lutheran but lost that while I was still a teenager.

Me too.

 

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"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." --Parodites

"Between this sky and the faces turned toward it there is nothing on which to hang a mythology, a literature, an ethic, or a religion—only stones, flesh, stars, and those truths the hand can touch." --Camus

"It is a tedious thing to be always beginning life; they live badly who always begin to live." --Seneca

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