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Thrasymachus
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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:56 pm

Live stream of Trump rally right now. I think Trump will be speaking in a few hours.


 

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"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

Peace. War. Love. Wordz




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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:11 pm

Yeah, we all knew this was coming, the Supreme Court slapped down the activist federal judges who have blocked Trump's temporary travel ban. The constitutionality is clear, so the Supreme Court had no choice but to rule against the activist judges. What is amazing is that these activist federal judges do not even care about the law, they simply want to virtue signal and block Trump at all costs. Amazing really, when you think about it, that this is how our justice system works at that high level. But at least the Supreme Court has some sense in this instance.

"We now turn to the preliminary injunctions barring enforcement of the §2(c) entry suspension. We grant the Government’s applications to stay the injunctions, to the extent the injunctions prevent enforcement of §2(c) with respect to foreign nationals who lack any bona fide relationship with a person or entity in the United States. We leave the injunctions entered by the lower courts in place with respect to respondents and those similarly situated, as specified in this opinion."

...The injunctions reach much further than that: They also bar enforcement of §2(c) against foreign nationals abroad who have no connection to the United States at all. The equities relied on by the lower courts do not balance the same way in that context. Denying entry to such a foreign national does not burden any American party by reason of that party’s relationship with the foreign national."

 

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"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

Peace. War. Love. Wordz




“Grow a pair, preferably between your eyes.” -Styxhexenhammer666

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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:46 pm

Biased judges. How ironic.
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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:20 am


 

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"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

Peace. War. Love. Wordz




“Grow a pair, preferably between your eyes.” -Styxhexenhammer666

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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:53 am

Silly child's game.

He needs to get serious and make Congress start doing their job instead of playing silly child's games.

What's that term? Adult babies?
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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:48 am

Sisyphus wrote:
Silly child's game.

He needs to get serious and make Congress start doing their job instead of playing silly child's games.

What's that term?  Adult babies?

Trump didn't make that meme above, or even repost it, as far as I know.

Congress is stonewalling him, not the other way around.

 

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"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

Peace. War. Love. Wordz




“Grow a pair, preferably between your eyes.” -Styxhexenhammer666

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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:12 pm

See you on the flip side, guys

Im out of politics and stuff for the time being. Iam alea iacta erat anno MMXI, Rubicon procul est plusquamque serpentes videmus.

I heard Pezer is doing great. His brother told me.
He is still in V, according to plan.

Ill be drinking in the Lodge.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:56 pm

Cheers to that. Glad to hear about Pezer, definitely. And taking a break from politics isn't a bad idea at all.

 

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"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

Peace. War. Love. Wordz




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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:36 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:
Sisyphus wrote:
Silly child's game.

He needs to get serious and make Congress start doing their job instead of playing silly child's games.

What's that term?  Adult babies?

Trump didn't make that meme above, or even repost it, as far as I know.

Congress is stonewalling him, not the other way around.

Yes, I am picking up more details about that.

CNN messed up big time dealing with it and might be facing criminal charges.
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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:37 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:


Ill be drinking in the Lodge.

Stay safe with your drinking.
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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:17 pm



"The fundamental question today is whether the West has the will to survive... do we have enough respect for our citizens to protect our borders... we can have the strongest economies and the most lethal weapons on earth, but if we do not have strong families and values then we will not survive."

Well said.

 

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"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

Peace. War. Love. Wordz




“Grow a pair, preferably between your eyes.” -Styxhexenhammer666

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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:47 am

And then some jack asses came out of the trees and said his speech was racist.

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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:05 pm

Haha yep. The left is in full self destruct meltdown mode.

Check this out for example:


 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

Peace. War. Love. Wordz




“Grow a pair, preferably between your eyes.” -Styxhexenhammer666

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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:17 pm


 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

Peace. War. Love. Wordz




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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:46 am

What a great video. I sent it to someone who used to be a friend but coldly broke contact after Trump had won, someone pretending to be against racism. Of course I won't hear back from him.

Anyway.

I was reading an article on Tillerson in Rolling Stone.
Check out this demented paragraph.

RS wrote:
At Foggy Bottom, where State's imposing edifice is located, the void is eerie. According to a tracker compiled by the nonprofit Partnership for Public Service, Trump and Tillerson have yet to nominate candidates to fill more than 83 senior-level positions and ambassadorships, and that's only a partial count. At the level of assistant secretary – the folks who actually manage day-to-day diplomacy – out of 22 positions, only two people have been nominated, and one confirmed. Empty offices include assistant secretaries for Near Eastern affairs, South Asian affairs, European and Eurasian affairs, Western Hemisphere affairs, East Asian and Pacific affairs, African affairs, political-military affairs, arms control, population, migration and refugees, democracy, human rights, labor and many more.

Because "Near Eastern affairs, South Asian affairs, European and Eurasian affairs, Western Hemisphere affairs, East Asian and Pacific affairs, African affairs, political-military affairs, arms control, population, migration and refugees, democracy, human rights, labor" were issues were the US was doing so well.

Someone is flushing a toilet. Rolling Stone Magazine is standing by and bubbling: oh no, what are we gonna do without all that precious shit?

 

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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:54 pm

Rolling Stone has been caught faking news, even to the point of being forced to retract stories. So fuck them. These leftist rags are nothing but small ticks feeding off the larger tick that feeds on the back of what humanity means in the truest sense.

The great reset is coming. Trump is just the first chapter, a will to flush the toilet. Now that will exists and the handle is being pushed down. It can't be stopped. Collapse and war are coming. The west may be dead, but whatever madness rises upon its grave will be confronted with harsh reality from all directions, no more safe spaces, no more endless faucet of debt-money, no more world hegemony. The world is a reality principle and it has been abused and neglected for too long... the spring is wound as tightly as possible, and about to snap back.

 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

Peace. War. Love. Wordz




“Grow a pair, preferably between your eyes.” -Styxhexenhammer666

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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:04 pm

Another dark ages is upon us. Rome is running on fumes now. Speaking mathematically, this dark age will be an exponential rise from the last one, dark ages squared. If we call 800 years "x", then we are looking at X^2, possibly..... 640,000 years; the true end. We will all be dead and the dark age will have barely even begun. I doubt that anyone can see so far into the future to know if or when it will come to an end.

If 800^2 is reasonable, and humans are 200,000 years old, then we are looking at a regression and reset curve of 3x what it took so far to build all this we see around us. If modern humans are 50,000 years old then 200,000/50,000=4, thus it took 3x as long of a slow stagnation and infinitesimal brutal growth to get from human to modern human, so the same pattern holds here too: 800 year dark age last time, 640,000 year dark age now beginning, which puts the former 200,000 year period of development of humanity at almost precisely 1/3 the length of the coming dark age period.

The same rate.

Last time: 50,000 out of 200,000
This time: 200,000 out of 640,000

Reality is (ration)nally structured. And thus we can guess that the next phase of "modern" (rational, sane, philosophical) humans will appear in around the year 602,000, or so.

 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

Peace. War. Love. Wordz




“Grow a pair, preferably between your eyes.” -Styxhexenhammer666

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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:03 pm

Here Nietzsches great evolutionary merit comes in - I like to see how you group him with Marx, he definitely earns that in part, he certainly is responsible for postmodernism. How he himself justifies this is by the adagium that to make a higher man possible, by which he means simply a more honest, reality-oriented man (I disagree entirely that N is not realistic or truthful, but thats not the point here) conditions need to be made harsh. He thinks the species should learn to fight for itself again, cease relying on an absolute morality that will govern things in the end. And this is precisely what I see if I look at us and our world. When chaos makes the world stumble, there will be humans left standing; The Wise, as we may begin to announce them; the trick that evolution is playing through explicating the extremes of self valuing logic consequentiality can be interpreted proactively in this way: as the great mass of the word of consciousness weakens, but a certain part refuses to weaken and forms into necessity, which in human terms means writing law, the human substance splits in two, one part hard and consistent with itself, the other part soft and with malleable consistency. The goo can not oversee the consequences of anything anymore and legislative power escapes it in praxis. This is the window of opportunity for evolution, the narrow slot in which the key-matrix of philosophy is to be inserted as a spine to the human process as it moves into technocratic supremacy to master the Earth.

Law is philosophy's outlet, a human extension of natural law. The philosopher allows the continuation of natural law into conscious behaviour through endurance in sincerity.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:41 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:


Law is philosophy's outlet, a human extension of natural law.

It has been my observation that man has not done a very good job here.
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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:08 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Here Nietzsches great evolutionary merit comes in - I like to see how you group him with Marx, he definitely earns that in part, he certainly is responsible for postmodernism. How he himself justifies this is by the adagium that to make a higher man possible, by which he means simply a more honest, reality-oriented man (I disagree entirely that N is not realistic or truthful, but thats not the point here) conditions need to be made harsh. He thinks the species should learn to fight for itself again, cease relying on an absolute morality that will govern things in the end.

I read an interesting analysis by Jung about Nietzsche, where Jung writes that Nietzsche was keenly aware of the death of god (the progressive Protestant fragmentation and destruction of the old mythological symbols and their larger structures, as Jung would refer to it) and used philosophy as a stand-in for an attempt to create new symbols: 'beyond good and evil' being an attempt by Nietzsche to simplify, in Kierkegaardian manner, the symbolic archetypal order in a way that could possibly save it from fragmentation and collapse, while even more significantly Thus Spoke Zarathustra being an attempt by Nietzsche to literally recreate the Wise Old Man archetype directly as a new god-symbol (even if Nietzsche was only doing this for just himself). Jung points out that not only does Nietzsche invoke both the aspects of wisdom-giver and entertainer into Zarathustra (both are aspects of the archetype of the Wise Old Man) but Nietzsche actually writes the book in the style of how the Wise Old Man speaks (in parables, with eccentricity, unpredictably, or with striking and direct depth all tinged with subtle mocking tones indicating elevation).

In essence, Nietzsche was reacting to the breakdown of the symbolic order by trying to create a new symbolic order, with his concepts as well as with Zarathustra directly. Not a bad way to react, if it could be done correctly. Perhaps in 1000 years Nietzsche's philosophical work will have become literally a new religion, or among the basis for one. As for conditions needing to be made harsh to produce honest reality-oriented men, yes certainly this is the case. The life if any man that becomes too indulgent and effortless stagnates, but this can lead to a loss of honesty or simply to a loss of respect for human life and human society. A philosopher or artist-genius with great indulgence and effortless living may not lose his honesty per se, but may simply lose his edge. Or translate that edge even further inward, forcing it to engage with itself all the more for the loss of any necessary engagement outside of itself.

The world will always be harsh, that is a truism for certain. Even for the rich, the affluent and powerful, the world is quite harsh but simply harsh in different ways than it is harsh for the poor. But in the sense of a supposed moral objectivity or what I would call an ideological moralism being the coddling indulgent factor, perhaps we can see postmodernism as a sign of the breaking-down of that factor, courtesy in part of Nietzsche's work. False or rather easy moralism that wants to make no use of either the intellect or the spirit in order to continue to be that which it is, maybe this is what is breaking down leading to increased harshness of reality. But that same moralism was always only an attempt to abate the harshness of reality in other ways, for example the harshness of poverty or the harshness of the dynamics of affluent sociality: either of those aspects of hard reality can be partly abated by adhering to a simplistic moralism, and the non-intellectuality and non-spirituality of such a moralism isn't its raison d'etre so much as simply a co-occurring factor or side-effect of the primary causality which in this case is the fact that the aforementioned harshnesses can be temporarily or partially blunted and "overcome" by turning from them and pursuing a simpler, more "authentic" sort of existence... one without the difficulties and complexities of harsh reality.

Moralism as psychic bandaid, as buttress against the harshness of reality that I contend all people already face in extremity. If some people (simple moralists) appear to not have a harsh life this is only because these people have become so good at hiding within their chosen moralistic cocoon, and do not expose to anyone else the travails and suffering they endure every single day, as we all endure every single day. But certainly, there are different kinds of harshness of reality and different degrees of each kind. Blindly striving to increase this harshness either in kind or degree is not necessarily going to have the desired effect of elevating humankind, however, and could easily have quite the opposite effect; especially considering that the moralism which we (with Nietzsche) are viewing the "weakness" and "meekness" of modern cow-like man is actually just a mask this man puts on, and he is neither as cow-like nor as complacently happy as he would have others believe. I think Nietzsche made a mistake here, in over-simplifying the common 'herd humanity', by taking what it wears as its mask for its actual face. Of course most of these herd humans, so called, do not really know they are wearing a mask, but neither would these same humans ever be caught saying to themselves that they have it easy and never suffer of the harshness of reality. They are quite acquainted with this harshness, even if they never admit it to others. And the harsher it becomes for them, the more they will create and cling to comforting masks of simplification, which as Jung points out is, at least according to Jung, what Nietzsche is doing with some of his own concepts.

In other words, I think there is this naive romanticized idea that if the world falls into chaos and war then somehow humanity will rise up to the heroic stature of his greater self and become elevated, whereas is chaos and war are avoided then this will not occur. Certainly some good will always come out of chaos and war, that is also a truism, but some good also comes out of the opposite of that, and who is weighing these two goods properly, much less weighing them also in terms of the associated bads that come with each? I see none of that more precise work being done anywhere, so I cannot necessarily go along with the idea that increase of harshness of reality = more honest reality-oriented men, especially considering what I already see that humans, when faced with harshness, retreat evermore inward either to benefit (philosophy, art, contemplation) or detriment (false morality, anti-intellectualism, banality and vanity).

Quote :
And this is precisely what I see if I look at us and our world. When chaos makes the world stumble, there will be humans left standing; The Wise, as we may begin to announce them; the trick that evolution is playing through explicating the extremes of self valuing logic consequentiality can be interpreted proactively in this way: as the great mass of the word of consciousness weakens, but a certain part refuses to weaken and forms into necessity, which in human terms means writing law, the human substance splits in two, one part hard and consistent with itself, the other part soft and with malleable consistency. The goo can not oversee the consequences of anything anymore and legislative power escapes it in praxis. This is the window of opportunity for evolution, the narrow slot in which the key-matrix of philosophy is to be inserted as a spine to the human process as it moves into technocratic supremacy to master the Earth.

Law is philosophy's outlet, a human extension of natural law. The philosopher allows the continuation of natural law into conscious behaviour through endurance in sincerity.

Yes and we could even see the creation of America as a great example of this, the formation of a new Law under philosophical principles and philosophical-artistic work, during a period of intense chaos. The revolutionary war forced this kind of hardness on those who survived it, and in the aftermath of that chaos Law was formed as a kind of spine, as you say, for the human process or evolution. I agree with what you say about law, it really is this sort of thing, a hard backbone of humanity; without law there is no humanity. Law is the expression of philosophical principles, of our ability or inability to think, lived as direct and immediate social reality.

I also do not think it is possible to predict very well in advance which people and which parts of humanity will strengthen versus which will weaken, in the face of increase of harshness pressure. And often the weakening is also a rational natural response to increase in harshness pressure, just as the tree weakens in order to sway in the breeze rather than break; weakening of the structure will occur to a point, and then a return to strength ensues. It is also the case that many "weak, unprincipled" people are simply waiting for the right materials and situations in order to actualize a kind of alchemical transformation into something of greater, more clear and certain self-valuing.

 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

Peace. War. Love. Wordz




“Grow a pair, preferably between your eyes.” -Styxhexenhammer666

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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:35 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:

I read an interesting analysis by Jung about Nietzsche, where Jung writes that Nietzsche was keenly aware of the death of god (the progressive Protestant fragmentation and destruction of the old mythological symbols and their larger structures, as Jung would refer to it) and used philosophy as a stand-in for an attempt to create new symbols: 'beyond good and evil' being an attempt by Nietzsche to simplify, in Kierkegaardian manner, the symbolic archetypal order in a way that could possibly save it from fragmentation and collapse, while even more significantly Thus Spoke Zarathustra being an attempt by Nietzsche to literally recreate the Wise Old Man archetype directly as a new god-symbol (even if Nietzsche was only doing this for just himself). Jung points out that not only does Nietzsche invoke both the aspects of wisdom-giver and entertainer into Zarathustra (both are aspects of the archetype of the Wise Old Man) but Nietzsche actually writes the book in the style of how the Wise Old Man speaks (in parables, with eccentricity, unpredictably, or with striking and direct depth all tinged with subtle mocking tones indicating elevation).

I welome this perspective. Nietzsche indeed writes that he chooses the Old Testament style for Zarathustra as it seemed fitting to the task. No doubt Jung has great insights in him, Id like to read that.

And yes, this is how I read and think through Nietzsche, as someone who breaks down the entire false order into true bits, namely, quanta of WtP, which are simple Self-Valuing but not yet so roundly well explicated, and thus already contain all the seeds of morality. Morality does not need to be inserted in a Nietzschean world, it exists implicitly, but as a morality of truthfulness.

His embracing of what he sees as "holy lies" or justified lies, is pure mercy. It is his will to spare humanity from the ugly aspects that it doesn't need to cultivate, aspects that, when cultivated, result in death-cults and the like. His truthfulness is in the first instance an acknowledgement of his own suffering and a recognition of the joy that even this suffering can not break. This is the will to power in a nutshell, this joy (even) in the face of suffering - self-overcoming. And this is what selfvauing is as well, an overcoming of "self"

Motherfuck the Self. Just give me my values.

Quote :
In essence, Nietzsche was reacting to the breakdown of the symbolic order by trying to create a new symbolic order, with his concepts as well as with Zarathustra directly. Not a bad way to react, if it could be done correctly. Perhaps in 1000 years Nietzsche's philosophical work will have become literally a new religion, or among the basis for one.

Sooner. Through VO, it is already transforming minds in ultra radical ways. Most minds the come in contact with this radical transforming force are resisting it and hate VO. But this is just physics on a human scale, resistance, friction, all accompanying the heat of the forge.

Quote :
As for conditions needing to be made harsh to produce honest reality-oriented men, yes certainly this is the case. The life if any man that becomes too indulgent and effortless stagnates, but this can lead to a loss of honesty or simply to a loss of respect for human life and human society. A philosopher or artist-genius with great indulgence and effortless living may not lose his honesty per se, but may simply lose his edge. Or translate that edge even further inward, forcing it to engage with itself all the more for the loss of any necessary engagement outside of itself. 

I would say a philosopher with ease of living is forced to increase his intellectual and spiritual (ethical) challenges, as no one who can endure wasting time on merely being comfortable could ever arrive at a philosophical thought.

For me, to sit on some porch and do nothing but sip ice tea and check my stocks is unendurable. I much prefer to be wielding a sledgehammer near a furnace. But that is what philosophy feels like, one of its senses anyway.

Quote :
The world will always be harsh, that is a truism for certain. Even for the rich, the affluent and powerful, the world is quite harsh but simply harsh in different ways than it is harsh for the poor. 

Not even necessarily. Most of the physical diseases that the poor suffer also infringe on the luxuries of the rich. And spending millions on pharmaceutical treatment isn't making it any better. Life is indeed harsh for most anyone. I think there are some exceptions, but not bound to class. Some people are just "saints", blessed with a constitution that allows them to accept everything quite effortlessly and laugh and dance through the day making everyone around them light in the heart despite themselves. Not many, one in a thousand maybe, and of course they do suffer, but... their joy is significantly outshining that suffering. Nietzsche was quite interested in that type, but couldn't really divine it. I think that is because it is usually a woman.

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But in the sense of a supposed moral objectivity or what I would call an ideological moralism being the coddling indulgent factor, perhaps we can see postmodernism as a sign of the breaking-down of that factor, courtesy in part of Nietzsche's work. False or rather easy moralism that wants to make no use of either the intellect or the spirit in order to continue to be that which it is, maybe this is what is breaking down leading to increased harshness of reality. But that same moralism was always only an attempt to abate the harshness of reality in other ways, for example the harshness of poverty or the harshness of the dynamics of affluent sociality: either of those aspects of hard reality can be partly abated by adhering to a simplistic moralism, and the non-intellectuality and non-spirituality of such a moralism isn't its raison d'etre so much as simply a co-occurring factor or side-effect of the primary causality which in this case is the fact that the aforementioned harshnesses can be temporarily or partially blunted and "overcome" by turning from them and pursuing a simpler, more "authentic" sort of existence... one without the difficulties and complexities of harsh reality.

Could it be that you are referring here to the fortune of arriving at ones values? Comfort and mercy are values, and to anyone living a harsh period, these are always pressing, and morality comes about quite naturally as the collective will to abate suffering. I certainly agree if this is what you mean.

the Nietzschean question is this: which type of suffering do we abate at which cost?
There is no question that suffering must abated if a collective project is to take hold - this is what a collective project is, the sharing of burden, the use of power to attain better, more pleasurable states.

Nietzsches criticism of Christian morality came down to the idea that it imposes extra suffering on anyone who isn't weak and ugly of soul enough to not want to believe in a very stupid and ugly lie. I think he is right in that. And this type of being has overcome all challenges put to it and is now living in an uglier and dumber lie than the Bible ever presented. Transgenderism and all we've been disgusted by is simply the continuation of the punishment place on strength and the idealization of those that do not want to suffer - least of all in service of others.

In the beginning, Christianity, or the Christ, was the impulse to suffer for others. But within the first centuries of its reign this changed to the impulse to make the authentic suffer for the pleasure of the weak.
This is the very impulse that wants Clont in power.

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Moralism as psychic bandaid, as buttress against the harshness of reality that I contend all people already face in extremity. If some people (simple moralists) appear to not have a harsh life this is only because these people have become so good at hiding within their chosen moralistic cocoon, and do not expose to anyone else the travails and suffering they endure every single day, as we all endure every single day. 

I don't know these people, but it may be that I look through them too easily. Simple moralists generally have broken eyes and overdry skin.

On the other hand, there are very many simple suffering people that do nothing but reiterate the nature of their pain to each other, unfortunately Ive seen a bit of elderly homes, when my sick family members insisted to have my grandfather undone there despite my mothers pleas to let her take him in with us. These damned family members explicitly said they they didn't want t put up with the burden, of taking care of the man that gave them life - they are truly the scum of the Earth and I am glad life is a punishment for them. But in any case these nursing homes were full of people that did nothing but describe their ulcers, itches, broken bones, what the hell ever was wrong with them, they relished in telling of it unceasingly.

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But certainly, there are different kinds of harshness of reality and different degrees of each kind. Blindly striving to increase this harshness either in kind or degree is not necessarily going to have the desired effect of elevating humankind, however, and could easily have quite the opposite effect; especially considering that the moralism which we (with Nietzsche) are viewing the "weakness" and "meekness" of modern cow-like man is actually just a mask this man puts on, and he is neither as cow-like nor as complacently happy as he would have others believe. I think Nietzsche made a mistake here, in over-simplifying the common 'herd humanity', by taking what it wears as its mask for its actual face. 

Yes, definitely, the modern meek man is a pit of hell unto himself, and his entire life's work is to numb himself to this, and that goes at the cost of whatever and whoever.

This is why Nietzsche had Zarathustra go into the marketplace, and try to shake people out of their self induced comatose hell. He failed, which is a great aspect of the narrative. I love how Zarathustra is a work describing a massive, even cosmic failure.

The discovery or concoction of the ER at the end of the narrative, which ends as far as Im concerned with Book 3, is a breakdown into a lie, a comfort, a consolation, a mercy that isn't given by the natural world. I had read it a few times in English but when I read it in German, I literally got  nauseous, seeing exactly the weakness Nietzsche succumbed to there, seeing him compromise all his truthful harshness for an all too clumsy lie.

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Of course most of these herd humans, so called, do not really know they are wearing a mask, but neither would these same humans ever be caught saying to themselves that they have it easy and never suffer of the harshness of reality. They are quite acquainted with this harshness, even if they never admit it to others. And the harsher it becomes for them, the more they will create and cling to comforting masks of simplification, which as Jung points out is, at least according to Jung, what Nietzsche is doing with some of his own concepts. 

As I know them, they only acknowledge it by ruining as many truthful people as they can. It is indirect, the behaviour of abused and diseased rodents, not conscious, very poisonous. There is no redemption for them, as thousands of years of false comforts have simply become substance in them - they are fase comfort, the reality behind that is not for them, not accessible to them, it means death to them - if we compare them to plants, they aren't built, grown to endure the sunlight. They can only be dank thin little wormy fungus in perpetually dark corners, if they would face the sun they would instantly decompose.
There is no exaggeration. What Ive seen my family do to my grandfather already proved to me that even the greatest brightest truth of love could not wake them up from their "meekness", which simply means "agency of decay" - and what they consequently - and before that too, did to me, and who knows to which others, is so utterly sick that even a nazi would pale in disgust. This is not their individual doing, they are the product of a lie that self perpetuated for thousands of years perpetually feeding on humanity's lesser integrities and thereby cultivating, breeding them around it.
This lie is what I break. I take on myself exile and the curses of my family just to be able to not be as sick as they are, to expose the lie as a real thing, as something even realer than those that live by it. And I have no hope for them, neither personal nor analytic, clinical - I see them as having under-valued reality so consistently throughout their lives, that they have become functions of undervaluation, which is the opposite of existence.

Existence always perpetuates by exalting that which it engages, demanding implicitly thereby of itself to be more than it was.

All that does not as a rule exalt what it engages, ends up forgotten, no more than dust. All that does as a rule exalt what it engages builds itself into a resistance on the ontic level. Things have to become greater to engage them as well - this is what the archetypical King does - he expects being to be the utmost of what it can be, and pretends that it already is that. So when it proves less, an absolute scorn is invoked. This is standard-setting, this is wisdom, based on the acquired knowledge or instinctive knowledge that quality of life has no upper limits except the degree of effort and noble sacrifice that it is capable of putting in for its environment.

This is why I practice philosophy like I do, as pure resistance, as pure standard, as pure confrontation. I am nature itself.

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In other words, I think there is this naive romanticized idea that if the world falls into chaos and war then somehow humanity will rise up to the heroic stature of his greater self and become elevated, whereas is chaos and war are avoided then this will not occur. Certainly some good will always come out of chaos and war, that is also a truism, but some good also comes out of the opposite of that, and who is weighing these two goods properly, much less weighing them also in terms of the associated bads that come with each? I see none of that more precise work being done anywhere, so I cannot necessarily go along with the idea that increase of harshness of reality = more honest reality-oriented men, especially considering what I already see that humans, when faced with harshness, retreat evermore inward either to benefit (philosophy, art, contemplation) or detriment (false morality, anti-intellectualism, banality and vanity). 

Yes, of course it is too simplistic to simply desire of war that it will bring out the best. There is so much horror involved in war that naturally it brings out some of the best, but there is no logic in wanting all that has been accomplished to be destroyed just to have a chance of starting anew - which won't even occur, because technology and wealth will not be redistributed, they never are in war, the opposite always happens. War concentrates resources in fewer hands. So the only justified war really is one which is waged in the name of philosophy, or at least, honesty and courage. And this is precisely the type of war I see coming - one where we rather fight to preserve what has been built, instead of letting it further deteriorate under influence of the maggots.

The question is what we wish to preserve. I wish to preserve the classical standard, language, logic, science, reverence for the universe, all sorts of things that have been diligently cultivated in the past millennia by those brave souls willing to risk their lives and more to defy the church and their neighbours. I also wish to preserve simple human relations. To this end, mob-culture needs to be disrupted. And this is the war that is already breaking out - basically it is a hellhound natured mob that is acquiring a special case of rabies. There is nothing to be preserved in that dog. All the humans engaging actively as that dog are already gone, and they will be forms of death more and more explicitly as the years progress.

They'll really begin to suffer mid next year, if my predictions keep being so precisely correct.

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And this is precisely what I see if I look at us and our world. When chaos makes the world stumble, there will be humans left standing; The Wise, as we may begin to announce them; the trick that evolution is playing through explicating the extremes of self valuing logic consequentiality can be interpreted proactively in this way: as the great mass of the word of consciousness weakens, but a certain part refuses to weaken and forms into necessity, which in human terms means writing law, the human substance splits in two, one part hard and consistent with itself, the other part soft and with malleable consistency. The goo can not oversee the consequences of anything anymore and legislative power escapes it in praxis. This is the window of opportunity for evolution, the narrow slot in which the key-matrix of philosophy is to be inserted as a spine to the human process as it moves into technocratic supremacy to master the Earth.

Law is philosophy's outlet, a human extension of natural law. The philosopher allows the continuation of natural law into conscious behaviour through endurance in sincerity.

Yes and we could even see the creation of America as a great example of this, the formation of a new Law under philosophical principles and philosophical-artistic work, during a period of intense chaos. The revolutionary war forced this kind of hardness on those who survived it, and in the aftermath of that chaos Law was formed as a kind of spine, as you say, for the human process or evolution. I agree with what you say about law, it really is this sort of thing, a hard backbone of humanity; without law there is no humanity. Law is the expression of philosophical principles, of our ability or inability to think, lived as direct and immediate social reality.

Absolutely, America is this philosophical project and Donald Trumps victory under this Law very likely saved all of us from annihilation.

Anytime I look at Clonts face now, even as it is not speaking, I see the very utmost of ugliness, loathsomeness and dangerous hate of truth. That human shaped hellhound is very literally death incarnate, and all human instincts that tend to trust or like that being are forces of death and worse.

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I also do not think it is possible to predict very well in advance which people and which parts of humanity will strengthen versus which will weaken, in the face of increase of harshness pressure. And often the weakening is also a rational natural response to increase in harshness pressure, just as the tree weakens in order to sway in the breeze rather than break; weakening of the structure will occur to a point, and then a return to strength ensues. It is also the case that many "weak, unprincipled" people are simply waiting for the right materials and situations in order to actualize a kind of alchemical transformation into something of greater, more clear and certain self-valuing.

In this case, Ive had 40 years time to observe from as close as humans get to each other the processes that manifest as morality and immorality, strength and weakness, truth and falsehood, cruelty and mercy, intelligence and stupidity, malice and understanding, etcetera - and I can pretty wel predict which types in the Netherlands, and northwestern Europe in general, will develop in which ways - but really, this is sort of the same as predicting that a rotted carcass will not come back to life.

Your questioning in a broader context, not just pertaining to N/W Europe, is however indeed the crucial one - the place I emerge from is arguably the most wretched on this planet, which is why it is being usurped by primitive Islam, which even in all its hellishness has more merit than godless leftism, which is literally death incarnate.

Morality and God are the same - they emerge from self valuing logic as common keys to higher plateaus of self-building, which is what self valuing amounts to if it isn't the opposite.

So it is as far as I can see really a question of opposites - and I have understood that this is where we differ. I do think that generosity and greed are direct opposites that determine human types and divide the species in two, and relate directly to justification and oblivion respectively.

I have tried literally all my conscious life to get the greedy to join the camp of the generous. But in not one single case did I succeed, even where I took fifteen years, or thirty five years for it. Some things are innate. I don't know how one can be born as a form of death, but apparently it happens to people. Sad.

Lol.

Very good topic though, I think were making headway to a "Nietzschean morality"... of course nothing would piss off the "Nietzscheans" more.
A naturally emergent morality that supports courage and truthfulness is relatable to the hindu concept of dharma, which the Buddhists raped into meaning "prescribed morality", but which the hindus meant to mean the emergent order between positive (brave, honest, virtuous, real) selfvaluings.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:16 pm

Fantastic analysis.

It made me think of something else I read in Jung (and if you want to pick up his book The Archetypes of the Collective Unconscious, that is what I have been studying lately, although only reading slowly at the store when I can get there, because I cannot afford to purchase the book until next week), he mentioned that in Hinduism there is a parable or lesson that goes as follows: 'Which man reaches nirvana more quickly, the man who loves god or the man who hates god? It is the man who hates god, because the man who loves god will take seven incarnations to reach nirvana but the man who hates god will only take three incarnations... why? Because the man who hates god spends so much more time thinking about god.'

In Jung I have finally found, after so much searching, someone who I think surpasses Nietzsche. Indeed, no one has surpassed Nietzsche in traditional philosophy or writing, although us three here have done so, of course. But with Jung, now that I make a more concerted effort to read him, I am quite happily surprised to see a mind and intellect that seems to stretch and reach beyond what I see Nietzsche stretched and reached for. That is just my personal perspective, I accept that others may not agree. Eventually it would be good to have a discussion about that.

As for the war of ideas and honesty, a truth-war, we are seeing this all around us. This is what social media has become, literally it is this war. A war between two types roughly speaking, the honest and the dishonest, those who want more reality and those who want to push reality away for a small bubble of protection and illusions. But then we must move deeper into the nature of this war and its two sides, because those on the dishonest side are actually fighting for values that are, all other things considered, good values, namely the values of stability and security, pleasure, community; they want to maintain a world where things are somewhat predictably good and where the freedom to self-value exists to live as one sees fit, but the obvious problem is that this dishonest type has been forced, because of its dishonesty and cowardice before hardship, to embrace illusions in its quest to defend such a world, therefore the world they actually defend is already tainted with the opposite of that idealized world, namely is gained with instability, insecurity, meaningless suffering, loss of community and loss of freedom to self-value. And these people in this camp are simply too intellectually and morally deficient to recognize this, and here comes a further split in their camp: some of them really do believe they are fighting for the good, while others a bit keener know that they are fighting for something that is actually counter-productive to the good yet they keep fighting anyway... these latter can be further subdivided into two groups, those who want to destroy the good (SJWs, Marxists, anarchists) due to some fantasy they have about a utopian world to come (most of the old Bolsheviks fall into this group, as useful idiots who are the first to be sacrificed once the "revolution" is actually achieved) and then there are those who genuinely want to destroy in order to achieve personal power for themselves. These latter are not naive, they are not useful idiots, they are fully aware of the brutal untruthful nature of that for which they fight, and they are banking on making the right alliances and acquiring enough capital and influence to be spared the ugly consequences of an eventual victory, so that they get to be the ones sacrificing the useful idiots in the end.

In other words, this side of the camp, this dishonest side, has actually and quite literally reversed truth: the more honest and intelligent a person in the camp is, the more they fight against honesty and intelligence; the more dishonest and unintelligent they are, the more they also fight for those same goals although without realizing it.

Whereas in the other camp, the side we are on, and the side so many other truth-fighters like Cernovich and Milo and so many others today are in, truth maintains its proper relation to reality in so far as a more honest and intelligent person will fight with more honesty and intelligence for the ends of greater honesty and intelligence in the world. We fight for, as you were saying, logic, science, self-valuing... law and freedom, individual self-responsibility to achieve greater values and to ennoble that which we encounter.

So yes, the war is here. It has been going on at least since 2015 when Trump declared his candidacy. I am interested in the possibility that some on the other camp might defect and change sides to our own, I would like to see this. It does happen, I have seen youtubers talking about this very process they went through from being "red pilled" and realizing they were living in a matrix. I realized that myself, of course, back when we here were debating Trump so intensely and in the process I was able to shatter my delusions. When delusions are shattered, values remain.

Interesting perspective you have on Nietzsche's "mercy" as you called it, with his comments about necessary lies. I have never considered this could have been merciful on his part, I always took it as an honest conception of Nietzsche's. The more I read and think about Nietzsche the more I see that he was not in any way beyond good and evil, but he wanted to be; it was a high value of his, Zarathustra-like being, but in the end yes maybe Nietzsche was simply so kindhearted as to be merciful and pitying of those who could not be elevated by greater encounters. Many people fear truth, and I do not recall Nietzsche ever defending that response of being fearful in that way. That would be the ultimate capitulation and mercy, if he had done that. The same thing Christianity does, but then we immediately see that such a position is actually merely a tool for increasing power over the fearful, to further cement the ideological structure, and Nietzsche was never that dishonest. Not even once.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:55 am

Thrasymachus wrote:
Fantastic analysis.

It made me think of something else I read in Jung (and if you want to pick up his book The Archetypes of the Collective Unconscious, that is what I have been studying lately, although only reading slowly at the store when I can get there, because I cannot afford to purchase the book until next week), he mentioned that in Hinduism there is a parable or lesson that goes as follows: 'Which man reaches nirvana more quickly, the man who loves god or the man who hates god? It is the man who hates god, because the man who loves god will take seven incarnations to reach nirvana but the man who hates god will only take three incarnations... why? Because the man who hates god spends so much more time thinking about god.'

Thats interesting.
There is a lot of emphasis on anger, fire, in hinduism.
Of course the Bhagavad Gita opens on a batte field, and presents the highest ethics as single-mindedly throwing oneself into war simply because it is the way of things, no matter the cost.

Nirvana is a state of cosmic complacency, Ive reached it often in my twenties, when I was doing 6 hours of meditation a day. I could not have seen self valuing logic if not from beyond the veil of "thingness", so this makes me someone who comes back from the paradisiacal state to teach the world.

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In Jung I have finally found, after so much searching, someone who I think surpasses Nietzsche. Indeed, no one has surpassed Nietzsche in traditional philosophy or writing, although us three here have done so, of course. But with Jung, now that I make a more concerted effort to read him, I am quite happily surprised to see a mind and intellect that seems to stretch and reach beyond what I see Nietzsche stretched and reached for. That is just my personal perspective, I accept that others may not agree. Eventually it would be good to have a discussion about that.

He is a student of Nietzsche just as Freud was a student of Nietzsche, and as a student he does surpass his master in important ways, as any worthy student will.

Zarathustra, the Superman, the Camel, the Lion and the Child - these are all precursors to Jungs theory of archetypes.

But Nietzsche did not work out the mechanics of the archetypes. He did not see into the psyche as Jung did. We see the difference of qualities best in Jungs highly successful relationships with women. He was precisely what Nietzsche could not be; "soft" - like water, penetrating the deepest crevices without need of the harsh light of divisive, cutting logic; he just observed truths.

Quote :
As for the war of ideas and honesty, a truth-war, we are seeing this all around us. This is what social media has become, literally it is this war. A war between two types roughly speaking, the honest and the dishonest, those who want more reality and those who want to push reality away for a small bubble of protection and illusions. But then we must move deeper into the nature of this war and its two sides, because those on the dishonest side are actually fighting for values that are, all other things considered, good values, namely the values of stability and security, pleasure, community; they want to maintain a world where things are somewhat predictably good and where the freedom to self-value exists to live as one sees fit, but the obvious problem is that this dishonest type has been forced, because of its dishonesty and cowardice before hardship, to embrace illusions in its quest to defend such a world, therefore the world they actually defend is already tainted with the opposite of that idealized world, namely is gained with instability, insecurity, meaningless suffering, loss of community and loss of freedom to self-value. And these people in this camp are simply too intellectually and morally deficient to recognize this, and here comes a further split in their camp: some of them really do believe they are fighting for the good, while others a bit keener know that they are fighting for something that is actually counter-productive to the good yet they keep fighting anyway... these latter can be further subdivided into two groups, those who want to destroy the good (SJWs, Marxists, anarchists) due to some fantasy they have about a utopian world to come (most of the old Bolsheviks fall into this group, as useful idiots who are the first to be sacrificed once the "revolution" is actually achieved) and then there are those who genuinely want to destroy in order to achieve personal power for themselves. These latter are not naive, they are not useful idiots, they are fully aware of the brutal untruthful nature of that for which they fight, and they are banking on making the right alliances and acquiring enough capital and influence to be spared the ugly consequences of an eventual victory, so that they get to be the ones sacrificing the useful idiots in the end.

I can agree to these basic schemata. We must thus see to address those that really do have sound human values, that simply want to remain in a civilization, with a logic that allows for exertion of the being. A way of the will to manifest itself without offending.... "itself".

Jung seems an excellent path. Nietzsche can not provide any such softness, the only seduction-to-self that he presents is for those that are very hard.

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In other words, this side of the camp, this dishonest side, has actually and quite literally reversed truth: the more honest and intelligent a person in the camp is, the more they fight against honesty and intelligence; the more dishonest and unintelligent they are, the more they also fight for those same goals although without realizing it.

Whereas in the other camp, the side we are on, and the side so many other truth-fighters like Cernovich and Milo and so many others today are in, truth maintains its proper relation to reality in so far as a more honest and intelligent person will fight with more honesty and intelligence for the ends of greater honesty and intelligence in the world. We fight for, as you were saying, logic, science, self-valuing... law and freedom, individual self-responsibility to achieve greater values and to ennoble that which we encounter.

So yes, the war is here. It has been going on at least since 2015 when Trump declared his candidacy. I am interested in the possibility that some on the other camp might defect and change sides to our own, I would like to see this. It does happen, I have seen youtubers talking about this very process they went through from being "red pilled" and realizing they were living in a matrix. I realized that myself, of course, back when we here were debating Trump so intensely and in the process I was able to shatter my delusions. When delusions are shattered, values remain.

It is an incredible time to exist. If one would look at this as some detached mind in terms of pure value chemistry, it would look like an extremely violent chain of reaction, and one would stand back.

Quote :
Interesting perspective you have on Nietzsche's "mercy" as you called it, with his comments about necessary lies. I have never considered this could have been merciful on his part, I always took it as an honest conception of Nietzsche's. The more I read and think about Nietzsche the more I see that he was not in any way beyond good and evil, but he wanted to be; it was a high value of his, Zarathustra-like being, but in the end yes maybe Nietzsche was simply so kindhearted as to be merciful and pitying of those who could not be elevated by greater encounters. Many people fear truth, and I do not recall Nietzsche ever defending that response of being fearful in that way. That would be the ultimate capitulation and mercy, if he had done that. The same thing Christianity does, but then we immediately see that such a position is actually merely a tool for increasing power over the fearful, to further cement the ideological structure, and Nietzsche was never that dishonest. Not even once.

The thing here is that N did not so much prescribe the lie, as discern that the lie had always been the driving factor even of supposed truthfulness. He partially overcame this tendency for the lie even by simply making it existence known. But rather than expose all of humanity, so much of which was sub natural to his eyes, to the harshness of truth, he chose to only expose the very strongest, the ones most capable of enduring suffering without losing their subtlety.

His description of the Greeks in the Birth of Tragedy applies also to his friends, people like you and me, people willing to take Truth on their shoulders, people with strong hearts, who can do the work of billions, for these billions, transforming the world into a more wholesome place even agains the explicit will of the sick, leaving the sick their illusions, so that they won't stand in the way of our will to truth.

N divides our species into camps only by expedience: those who can do the work of restoring sanity, and those who can not. He is most cruel to those who can. This is why I fell in love with Nietzsches writing instantly; he was harsher on me that anyone had ever been, and yet he was harsh in such a way as to enhance my lust for life.

What he did instantly as I read the first page, is separate all the weak people that surrounded me in my life from my heart. He made me see I don't need to mind at all the thoughts of the weak, these thoughts do not concern me, or my work, or my responsibility, or my honour, morals or self valuing. They are a different species of thought.

This is what N did: separate Humanity into species of thought.
My work since then has simply been to serve strong thought by practicing it in the open.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:20 am

Frances supreme general quits after Macron shoves huge cuts in his throat. The general said he cant keep the French people safe this way. Upon which Macron says:

“For me it is undignified to wash dirty linen in public,” he said on Friday in an address to the army. “I am your leader,” he added. “I need no pressure, no comment.”

When do you guys think France will collapse as a nation?

Oh yes the same newspaper had an article calling Trump and/or Bannon the Devil.




 

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PostSubject: Re: Trump World   Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:35 pm

France has a lot of adjusting to do just as America has.

There is still a lot of time for changes. But the changes have to start somewhere.
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