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PostSubject: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:08 am

The Big Bang is the greatest chunk of horseshit ever devised.
Atheists believe in it. They believe in an even more irrational notion than God.
God is simply not built of reason, you arrive at it through a more complete psychic process. It is a stage of mind, a humanity. And the poems about gods creating the world, are all about elements and logics, not about bearded old men.
The Big Bang however, this is fully and actively contrarational. I is onsensical to posit a beginning of time including a state before that, which was supposedly singular and yet gave birth to something that is not - so, you mean, god exists, we just call him "science" now, and destroy science, but dont mind because we're morons anyway not to be trusted with it... the belief of the Last Man: a seismic event in time space occurred, thus this was the god that died and we are now ashamed to believe in, because ae sin and do nothing but sin and waste out lives. Fuck Big Bangers -

The error: tto push causal logic through a state defined as negative of the causalitylogics you are working with, so as to arrive at the conclusion that everything was created in an instance out of a timeless all-being.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:15 am

Of course whatever exists came into being gradually, as we very well know it does, as we can see how stars are formed. No doubt, atoms are formed in the same way - gradually the sheer possibility of existence assimilates by attraction, possibility enhancing possibility, collapsing into near-certainties on the atomic scale, remaining in the realm of pure potential on the electrical scale, the uncertainty principle is the veil that has possibility-as-such recede beyond the horizon of the urge for certainty that life, and consciousness is. "God" is merely the acknowledgement that there is an abyss where that veil is. Psychosis is merely that abyss.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:40 am

Yes, the Big Bang is stupidity. The truth lies with those who imagine how the universe was created. I mean, really, God created the entire universe in six days and rested on the seventh. God created everything exactly as it is, the universe is static.

Only those who believe in religions know the truth. Science knows nothing.

But then, over one hundred creation myths exist and every one says that theirs is the only truth. No room for questions. Mythical facts are the Truth!
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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:56 am

Sisyphus wrote:
Yes, the Big Bang is stupidity.  The truth lies with those who imagine how the universe was created.  I mean, really, God created the entire universe in six days and rested on the seventh.  God created everything exactly as it is, the universe is static.

Only those who believe in religions know the truth.  Science knows nothing.

But then, over one hundred creation myths exist and every one says that theirs is the only truth.  No room for questions.  Mythical facts are the Truth!
 

Well now my friend, you are having a bit of a religious conversion late in age? Haha. But no, you are wrong.
I realize youre not much interested in physics, you dont need to respond to posts you dont understand. That is like the media responding to Trump. Youre making a bit of a show based on smallish beliefs, and you ignored my actual words.

Dont worry, it is no big deal but please, keep to the standards of the forum and address reality.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:55 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
Sisyphus wrote:
Yes, the Big Bang is stupidity.  The truth lies with those who imagine how the universe was created.  I mean, really, God created the entire universe in six days and rested on the seventh.  God created everything exactly as it is, the universe is static.

Only those who believe in religions know the truth.  Science knows nothing.

But then, over one hundred creation myths exist and every one says that theirs is the only truth.  No room for questions.  Mythical facts are the Truth!
 

Well now my friend, you are having a bit of a religious conversion late in age? Haha. But no, you are wrong.
I realize youre not much interested in physics, you dont need to respond to posts you dont understand. That is like the media responding to Trump. Youre making a bit of a show based on smallish beliefs, and you ignored my actual words.

Dont worry, it is no big deal but please, keep to the standards of the forum and address reality.

But the problem is not your total knowledge of everything but rather the fact that I am not wrong.

Religious conversion I am having is it? You have lost it as you are suggesting something that doesn't exist. Of course, you do that all the time with your various gods so it's nothing new.

And BTW, when a discussion sinks to the level of attacking the individual instead of the topic one has already lost the argument.

You negated the theory of a Big Bang. Therefore you are saying that Einstein and Georges Lemaître are wrong any only you are correct. How vain!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:11 am

Let it out.

Einstein is a god to you, an unquestionable authority who created your truth, which you are not allowed to think about critically.

This is precisely what I mean.

How arrogant I am to the religious, for thinking for myself...
haha.




 

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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:16 am

I was so right, again....
I need only to mention a criticism of the Big Bang theory, and we have an uprising with passion and without argument.
It is sort of special to so easily provoke the normally levelheaded Sisyphus to a dogmatic rant by just stating a fact about logic.

This is why I called the OP "Big Bangism" - I know it is a religious anti-logical doctrine defended only by the passion of faith.


 

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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:18 am

I am generally ok with the idea of the Big Bang, namely that it could have taken place, although I do not accept the ontological implication that this was "the beginning of reality". Reality has no beginning, that's what's makes it real-ity.

The observation that the universe around us appears to be expanding gives some evidence for the notion of Big Bang. I also like the idea that there were various stages of production of the various elements over time as the universe expanded and cooled. I think it's an interesting theory, and I don't yet have any reason to think the Big Bang never took place, but of course I'm not religious about it either.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:25 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
Let it out.

Einstein is a god to you, an unquestionable authority who created your truth, which you are not allowed to think about critically.

This is precisely what I mean.

How arrogant I am to the religious, for thinking for myself...
haha.

Great. I'm glad we aren't taking our disagreements personal.

Actually, I know very little about Einstein or his work.

He did say that invoking god into his hypothesis of the Big Bang was his biggest blunder. And I agree with him.

And I don't agree with Hawking that the universe was create from nothing. It was created out of Singularity.

And believe me, I question what I do not understand but feel a need to understand or new information that is contradictory to my present understanding.

And yes, if we are living our life according to someone else's standards then all we are doing is living another life for that or those other people. The key to living is to self-actualize.


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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:30 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
I was so right, again....
I need only to mention a criticism of the Big Bang theory, and we have an uprising with passion and without argument.
It is sort of special to so easily provoke the normally levelheaded Sisyphus to a dogmatic rant by just stating a fact about logic.

This is why I called the OP "Big Bangism" - I know it is a religious anti-logical doctrine defended only by the passion of faith.

No, Fixed Cross, you are wrong again. Sorry.

Passion? I am without passion but I have a very healthy ego.

So your alternative to the Big Bang is magic. Yeah, very logical

So you are seeing yourself in what you are presenting me to be. Isn't that some type of psychological disorder?

At some point you might consider presenting a definition of the word "religion". I think you might have it confused with the term "belief system".
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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:33 am

And we should be careful connecting the Big Bang to atheism, because many religious people also believe the Big Bang. They think it was God's way of setting things in motion.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:38 am

Thrasymachus wrote:
I am generally ok with the idea of the Big Bang, namely that it could have taken place, although I do not accept the ontological implication that this was "the beginning of reality". Reality has no beginning, that's what's makes it real-ity.

The observation that the universe around us appears to be expanding gives some evidence for the notion of Big Bang. I also like the idea that there were various stages of production of the various elements over time as the universe expanded and cooled. I think it's an interesting theory, and I don't yet have any reason to think the Big Bang never took place, but of course I'm not religious about it either.

Well pointed out. And science still has many unanswered questions, some of which will never be answered.

But it is none-the-less the best theory available without the magic of creation by some god.

Everything that presently exists was at some point within the boundaries of Singularity. That's a bunch of stuff. How did all that stuff get into the boundaries of Singularity? Blame it on Black Holes.



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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:40 am

Thrasymachus wrote:
And we should be careful connecting the Big Bang to atheism, because many religious people also believe the Big Bang. They think it was God's way of setting things in motion.

Totally agree. The same is true regarding the fact of evolution.
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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:44 am

I have met religious atheists for whom the Big Bang is a sort of creation myth, thus I very much get Fixed's point here. But I prefer to ignore such people and focus on the sane ones, of which admittedly there seem to be few.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:53 am

Thrasymachus wrote:
I have met religious atheists for whom the Big Bang is a sort of creation myth, thus I very much get Fixed's point here. But I prefer to ignore such people and focus on the sane ones, of which admittedly there seem to be few.

Yes, I too understand Fixed's point of view but I feel he has been using an incorrect word when he refers to the Big Bang Theory as a religion. (And more importantly, as Tao being the same thing as a god.)

Yes, there are many pissed off Atheists who are really pissed off at the Church but still hold to creation myths and actually still believe in the gods. And yes, these are confused people. Their anger is more powerful than is there logic in determining why they are pissed off.

I enjoy arguing with Fixed because I know he has a log of knowledge he can share with me.


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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:45 pm

Big Bangism really makes me laugh out loud now. It is constructed of ingenious stupidities.
For example - the singularity, in which all potential time space is enclosed, explodes (contradicting it being a singularity)... into space ( contradicting its having enclosed space time)....

Just, wow. My compliments to anyone who can believe it. True religion.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:49 pm

Yes it is making a more philosophical (logical) claim than what most people/scientists seem to understand. Obviously if something is expanding into something else, there existed the "other outside" into which that something is expanding. Defining the something as "reality" or "everything" is a contradiction to then claim this something is then "expanding".

I tend to think of it tectonically: there are two categories of ontological space, for this example anyway, with the first category being a maximally-collapsed potentiation grid with near-zero substance, and the second category being actual substance that occupies or sits atop the first categorical grid. I think of the first category as as close to a pure mathematical space as could possibly exist, wherein nothing is really "there" except the minimum energy distribution to sustain that grid-space; what we think of as energy, space and time, the quantum foam and everything scaled up from that foam (quarks, atoms etc.) is part of the second category.

Given this framework, we can then imagine that within an infinitely extended category one pure mathematical/maximally collapsed grid there existed a singularity-point in which was contained all the energy/substance that would eventually come to constitute our universe. For some reason that point existed as a point, approaching zero-dimensionality and containing all energy we see around us in the universe today... it would be interesting to speculate as to why this point existed at all, but for our present purposes we hypothesize its existence. So then this point suddenly reaches a critical threshold and can no longer remain point-like (perhaps because it had previously been collapsing further and further but hit a point where further collapse was impossible, as total energy caused a chain reaction that reversed the collapse into a sudden expansion). The expansion took over and fed on itself, exponentially increasing into the Big Bang.

This caused energy-substance to differentiate and occupy more volume per unit energy, leading to cooling and eventually enough space per unit energy to where sub-atomic particles could form out of the quantum foam.

So naturally there are a few questions necessitated by this hypothesis: 1) if the first category mathematical grid is infinite in all directions (and logically I think it must be) then there must also be more, even infinite, number of singularity-points in various stages of contraction or expansion? Yes I think that is the case. 2) When a universe reaches its end and (hypothetically) dissolves into the maximum expansion whereby even atoms are stretched apart and dissolve, what then happens? How does that situation reset back into another singularity-point?

I don't have a good theory on that second question.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:32 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Big Bangism really makes me laugh out loud now. It is constructed of ingenious stupidities.
For example - the singularity, in which all potential time space is enclosed, explodes (contradicting it being a singularity)... into space ( contradicting its having enclosed space time)....

Just, wow. My compliments to anyone who can believe it. True religion.

Einstein felt that way too until he was shown to have fucked up. It was his theory, you know. I just can't find it in my mind to think that you hold yourself more knowledgeable than Einstein and all the other astronomers who hold firmly to the theory.

So you hold to magic over scientific investigation. That's okay Fixed. There are billions of people who believe similar to you. It is your right to believe whatever you wish regarding the creation of the universe. But you have to ignore many scientific facts in order to do so.

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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:39 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:
Yes it is making a more philosophical (logical) claim than what most people/scientists seem to understand. Obviously if something is expanding into something else, there existed the "other outside" into which that something is expanding. Defining the something as "reality" or "everything" is a contradiction to then claim this something is then "expanding".

The theory of "Absolute Nothingness" speaks very well to this. This suggests that the universe is expanding into an area, at a rate faster than the speed of light, that was previously void. So it is not actually expanding into something else.

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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:47 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:

Given this framework, we can then imagine that within an infinitely extended category one pure mathematical/maximally collapsed grid there existed a singularity-point in which was contained all the energy/substance that would eventually come to constitute our universe. For some reason that point existed as a point, approaching zero-dimensionality and containing all energy we see around us in the universe today... it would be interesting to speculate as to why this point existed at all, but for our present purposes we hypothesize its existence. So then this point suddenly reaches a critical threshold and can no longer remain point-like (perhaps because it had previously been collapsing further and further but hit a point where further collapse was impossible, as total energy caused a chain reaction that reversed the collapse into a sudden expansion). The expansion took over and fed on itself, exponentially increasing into the Big Bang.

If you ask any type of physicist what Singularity is they will say something like, "We don't know."

But it is consistent with the concept of reversion and cycles. That is, Singularity - Big Bang - maximum potential of the expansion of the universe - the shrinking of the universe as a result of gravity - new Singularity - new universe.

However, the most accepted theory of the universe is that of a cold death. That is, expansion continues so that gravity no longer has an effect on anything in the universe.

I prefer the theory of reversion and cycles.
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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:52 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:


So naturally there are a few questions necessitated by this hypothesis: 1) if the first category mathematical grid is infinite in all directions (and logically I think it must be) then there must also be more, even infinite, number of singularity-points in various stages of contraction or expansion? Yes I think that is the case. 2) When a universe reaches its end and (hypothetically) dissolves into the maximum expansion whereby even atoms are stretched apart and dissolve, what then happens? How does that situation reset back into another singularity-point?

I don't have a good theory on that second question.

Yes, there are a few hypotheses suggesting multiple universes. I even have one: there are six more universes, they exist in different dimensions and they account for what science calls Dark Matter.

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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:02 am

I just don't take that step, I don't grant the notion of singularity if it isn't also mono-tectonic.
I understand any quantum field however thin just as manifest as a star or an organism. From such a field, anything can be formed. Anything will be formed, simply because it is possible.
What we know is that there was a seismic event in the cosmos that basically shaped the way it is now. That could have been any collision of axes of gravity, such as black holes, which when they would 'spill their guts' might also cause some kind of big bang and paradigmatic, law-setting causation.
There are lots of things that may very well have other sides, that may be veils to other systems  - we can perceive so little and the math of the superelliptical galaxies shows it.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:04 am

I honestly think the Big Bang is purely the reinvention of God in secular terms - but with an even less rational ground.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:06 am

There can simply not be a The Whole.

Its a dense contradiction.
There are wholes, many different ones, that is the case.
But to posit a single whole is to contradict the notion of a whole.

It's hard to put in language, just imagine a whole that is not part of something else, and notice how the lines of logic and even cognition blur at the 'edge of the whole' which is obviously an illogical notion. The Whole must be infinite, because if it has borders, it borders on something else. But infinity didnt come out of the Big Bang.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism   Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:14 am

When I was 12 or so I figured oh cool, they scientifically proved that science can not explain the origin of what it explains. I took that for something very freedom loving.
Only later on I realized people actually tried to pretend that this singularity actually makes sense.

I piss on singularity. It's bullshit, it can take it.

 

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