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 Honest political campaigning

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Thrasymachus
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PostSubject: Honest political campaigning    Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:44 am

If politicians were honest about what they believe, campaigning would look a lot different... well at least for the liberals and establishment conservatives/neocons.

Trump: I believe in national strength and independence, I believe in personal success and individual responsibility, I believe trade deals should be negotiated fairly between each country to sustain the self-value of each country, and I believe we need to reduce our debt and dependence on foreign oil and credit, including that we need to stop the march of globalism which represents a decrease of our national autonomy, freedom and sovereignty. I believe in freedom of religion but I also believe America is a Christian country and I believe Islam is dangerous and less good of a religion than Christianity. I believe letting too many Muslims into America is dangerous in the long run, and I think most Americans agree with me on that. I don't believe in racism nor do I believe in reverse racism of quotas and shaming people into doing what they don't otherwise want to do of their own free choice. I don't believe in abortion except in some extreme cases such as where health of the mother is at stake.

Hillary: I believe America is best when we aren't as strong, I think that we need to be weaker so that others are not bullied and intimidated by us. I think most of the problems we face in the world are because our American strength is a trigger for others who aren't as strong or successful. I believe anyone who don't like us, Muslims for example, is because we deserve to not be liked because we are too mean. I believe in globalism and the reduction of national sovereignty and independence, so that our wealth can flow out and enrich all people, because I believe Americans are greedy and should instead want to help people out more. But I also believe in my own personal wealth and power and I'm happy to sell out to any foreign power if it means I can make a few million. I believe that illegal immigration is good, and I believe that sanctuary cities are good and should keep ignoring federal immigration law; in fact I believe all cities in America should be sanctuary cities. I believe in high debt and taxes because that keeps the greedy rich white republicans in line, and more debt means we are more dependent on the rest of the global community, which is good. I also believe in abortion under any circumstances, because who would want to go through 9 months of pregnancy when you can just rip apart the baby limb from limb and sell it for spare parts to a science lab? Plus there are too many people as it is!


Yeah..... honest campaigning would be a lot more interesting. You'll notice that liberals are required to lie about their true beliefs in order to even have a chance of winning elections (which lately they haven't been doing very much of anyway, winning that is). Over 80% of the country by county and by geography voted for Trump, and something like 3/4 of all state governors are Republicans now. Liberals are reaching a point where the required performance needed to mask and sell their dishonesty to voters is simply unpalatable for the average person; hyper-connection of information is also helping to establish a higher threshold for the lies to be successful, namely they need to lie better, more often and more consistently. But that only makes the fact they are lying all that much more obvious.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Honest political campaigning    Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:26 am

I have nothing to add to or disagree with your post. I respect honesty as one of the highest virtues. Nature is always honest. We should be more natural.
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PostSubject: Re: Honest political campaigning    Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:29 am

Nature doesn't just value honesty, nature values whatever works. Often dishonesty works just as well or better. Plenty of animals and plants incorporate deception and disguise into their survival methods.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Honest political campaigning    Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:40 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:
Nature doesn't just value honesty, nature values whatever works. Often dishonesty works just as well or better. Plenty of animals and plants incorporate deception and disguise into their survival methods.

Yes, nature values what works. But it's not dishonest. But I will agree that it appears to use deception and disguise. The pitcher plant and the Venus flytrap are perfect examples.

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PostSubject: Re: Honest political campaigning    Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:23 pm

Life uses decoys to survive and exaggerations to attract mates.

Both are deceptions, both demanding on the brain. So the being is already trapped between two opposite type of deception/perception-manipulation in order to both live and make life, and can thus not help being a deceptive, and thus doubtlessly self-deceptive being.

Our way of addressing this is no longer trying to shed both things as monks try, but to embrace being as an artform, something created quite wildly out of whatever is available - to make itself appear as awesome and untouchable as possible.

That is why tv works so well to distort everyone who has to do with it - it taps right into that primordial drive to hide most of the truth and exaggerate aspects of it, which is not just human but plantlike as well, thus making the human bend toward a kind of universal life standard that fits plant, animal and human alike, - mass media combine the human minds into several much larger minds, to which the self-deceptive human caters all too willingly, as it is his own bread and butter on his head.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Honest political campaigning    Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:39 am

Your points are well taken Fixed. I'm not disagreeing with you here.

I'm just trying to find ways to make it sound not so crude and not let it sound so absolute.

Yes, it has already been shown numerous times that most people will lie if they see a benefit in doing so.

The cat family of animals at ambush predators.

Perhaps I should change my statement of "nature is honest" to "nature does what it has to do".

That doesn't conflict with my Taoist Philosophy and regarding humans, I think it doesn't conflict with Nietzschean philosophy either. (Those who cannot survive on their own will travel with the herd.)



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PostSubject: Re: Honest political campaigning    Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:20 am

I dont think that contradicts much either.
We can say there is a truthfulness to all the play with appearances, namely the acknowledgement that life is precious and hard won, and requires creativity.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Honest political campaigning    Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:36 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
I dont think that contradicts much either.
We can say there is a truthfulness to all the play with appearances, namely the acknowledgement that life is precious and hard won, and requires creativity.

Yeah, really, sometimes we need to add a fudge factor into our interactions with our external world.

And yes, "The Art Of War" is nearly 50% about deception.

And indeed, all too often creativity is needed in our every-day life. There has to be more ways to get to "A" from "B".
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