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 Completely random passage by Nietzsche

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Sisyphus
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PostSubject: Re: Completely random passage by Nietzsche    Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:32 am

kami3 wrote:
Quote :
We must defend our values.

No; we must put our own values to the test, we are our own first ennemy to conquer, then all inferior beings are "enemies" because in our growth,our self- development, they have a tremendous influence if we are not aware, that's why our first task is to find superior beings that give us the right tools, the right eyes.

Been there, done that. All that's left is to defend.

Quote :
We see that happening today in the USA. Sad.

The herd is doing wrong from A to Z and both sides are the herd and in all countries, some countries doing fine but you can be a happy slave !

Yes, happiness (whatever that is) is a matter of perspective.

Quote :
who is leading who.

Today, It's the corporations, they bought all european politicians for example with twisted laws.Sad for us but great for them ! It's the law of the strongest.

It's happening in the USA too. I just hope the trend can be slowed.

Quote :
Nietzsche was not an angry Atheist

He was at war against everything "that has before been believed in, demanded and sanctified.  he is not a man, he is dynamite."

But most of all, he is a liberator !

But being at war does not require anger. When reading Nietzsche I never viewed him as angry. If I had I likely would have paid less attention to what he said.

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PostSubject: Re: Completely random passage by Nietzsche    Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:35 am

Thrasymachus wrote:
Interpreting Nietzsche as naive "might makes right" (as "whoever wins in any conflict of any kind is necessarily right, because he won") is not only the stupidest way to interpret Nietzsche, it is also the death of the mind as such, the death of philosophy itself.

Agree. The winners are not always the guys who wear the white hats. Remaining true to one's values is a win, IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: Completely random passage by Nietzsche    Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:38 am

kami3 wrote:
This is how its work

We do not understand the universe completly, so after the transvaluation of all values, the values become measurable by their strenght/power, by their ability to resist against other values.

The winning value posses supremacy until a new superior value come to take over.

There is no eternal fact as there are no absolute truth so we have to use "natural selection." dixit permanent conflict ! That's why "Man shall be trained for war".

Good way of viewing this. And I must agree as the universe is constantly changing.
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PostSubject: Re: Completely random passage by Nietzsche    Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:39 am

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Nice to see you are an optimist.

Well we have to undergo the ultimate consequences of our actual system first....

Yeah, I sometimes refer to myself as an optimistic realist.
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PostSubject: Re: Completely random passage by Nietzsche    Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:16 pm

Sisyphus wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
Interpreting Nietzsche as naive "might makes right" (as "whoever wins in any conflict of any kind is necessarily right, because he won") is not only the stupidest way to interpret Nietzsche, it is also the death of the mind as such, the death of philosophy itself.

Agree.  The winners are not always the guys who wear the white hats.  Remaining true to one's values is a win, IMO.

Right. And Nietzsche was not so stupid to not know this. "Winning" has far more to it than whoever ends up with the larger army or more skilled tactician or rhetorician. Look at Marxism as an example, it "won" to a large extent in the world and still is winning, yet that doesn't make it right. There are reasons why it won, just as there are reasons why it is not right. Nietzsche's own historical naturalistic perspective refutes any attempt to read Nietzsche as a pure relativist, such as "might makes right" interpretations do.

Let me clarify here: a historical naturalistic approach does not imply or necessitate relativism, quite the opposite. Historical and naturalistic means to examine real situational, specific, contextual causes and reasons, and such causes and reasons extend beyond themselves into the objective. In fact, historicism and naturalism is just a method of moving into the more objective from the less objective.


All forms of relativism are deeply anti-historical and anti-naturalistic. Evolution itself isn't "relativistic" at all.

 

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"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." --Parodites

"Between this sky and the faces turned toward it there is nothing on which to hang a mythology, a literature, an ethic, or a religion—only stones, flesh, stars, and those truths the hand can touch." --Camus

"It is a tedious thing to be always beginning life; they live badly who always begin to live." --Seneca

"I kick ass, all these other humans suck balls." --Inmendham
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PostSubject: Re: Completely random passage by Nietzsche    Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:54 pm

Absolutely correct. Nowhere does Nietzsche allow for any relativism of preference. The idea that whoever is most efficient is superior is absurd, as maggots and the malaria virus would have to be held in the highest esteem.

As N says in that quote, he is full of contradiction. It takes a nuanced reader to appraise his position.

N makes it abundantly clear that the final criteria are taste and smell.



 

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PostSubject: Re: Completely random passage by Nietzsche    Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:02 pm

the "win" that i seek is based on the collective intellectual integrity
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PostSubject: Re: Completely random passage by Nietzsche    Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:11 pm

kami3 wrote:
the "win" that i seek is based on the collective intellectual integrity

I don't know what that means. Also you didn't address the point Fixed and I made.

 

___________
"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." --Parodites

"Between this sky and the faces turned toward it there is nothing on which to hang a mythology, a literature, an ethic, or a religion—only stones, flesh, stars, and those truths the hand can touch." --Camus

"It is a tedious thing to be always beginning life; they live badly who always begin to live." --Seneca

"I kick ass, all these other humans suck balls." --Inmendham
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PostSubject: Re: Completely random passage by Nietzsche    Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:21 pm

Quote :
Interpreting Nietzsche as naive "might makes right"


From my point of view, he is right, there is no mistakes in those books, he is an ubermensh 10x smarter than Einstein.

but that's my interpretation, "the might makes right" is on me, not on Nietzsche.
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PostSubject: Re: Completely random passage by Nietzsche    Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:14 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:

Right. And Nietzsche was not so stupid to not know this. "Winning" has far more to it than whoever ends up with the larger army or more skilled tactician or rhetorician. Look at Marxism as an example, it "won" to a large extent in the world and still is winning, yet that doesn't make it right. There are reasons why it won, just as there are reasons why it is not right. Nietzsche's own historical naturalistic perspective refutes any attempt to read Nietzsche as a pure relativist, such as "might makes right" interpretations do.

Let me clarify here: a historical naturalistic approach does not imply or necessitate relativism, quite the opposite. Historical and naturalistic means to examine real situational, specific, contextual causes and reasons, and such causes and reasons extend beyond themselves into the objective. In fact, historicism and naturalism is just a method of moving into the more objective from the less objective.

All forms of relativism are deeply anti-historical and anti-naturalistic. Evolution itself isn't "relativistic" at all.

Interesting thoughts on relativism. I'm sure I have thought and said something like "Everything is relative." But that's not true of a value oriented philosophy, is it?

But then, I do shy away from suggesting any absolutes.

There must be a rather fine line between the objective a relative. Maybe there isn't even a line.
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PostSubject: Re: Completely random passage by Nietzsche    Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:17 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:

N makes it abundantly clear that the final criteria are taste and smell.

And both of those are subjective, not objective.

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PostSubject: Re: Completely random passage by Nietzsche    Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:19 pm

kami3 wrote:
the "win" that i seek is based on the collective intellectual integrity

I don't talk much about "collective" anything. (Might have something to do with my Anarchist philosophy.)
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PostSubject: Re: Completely random passage by Nietzsche    Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:00 pm


Quote :

I don't talk much about "collective" anything.

The smartest people tend to converge their thoughts, if you and me, right now by magic would get extra 400 IQ, our way of thinking would have high probability to become very similar and that very quickly.

The smarter we will get trough time, the more connected we will become through the full understanding of the underline wheels of human general behavior.





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PostSubject: Re: Completely random passage by Nietzsche    Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:38 am

kami3 wrote:

Quote :

I don't talk much about "collective" anything.

The smartest people tend to converge their thoughts, if you and me, right now by magic would get extra 400 IQ, our way of thinking would have high probability to become very similar and that very quickly.

The smarter we will get trough time, the more connected we will become through the full understanding of the underline wheels of human general behavior.

Fair way of looking at it. I willingly share my mind. And I accept whatever from others I feel will be useful to me.
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