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 Europe Studies

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Fixed Cross
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PostSubject: Europe Studies   Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:33 pm

This can be the basis for a politics. But just the deep foundation.


 

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Thrasymachus
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PostSubject: Re: Europe Studies   Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:05 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
This can be the basis for a politics. But just the deep foundation.



Very nice. I agree with your insights here. It seems that secular civilization achieved two things in relatively short time: it shot up tremendously in technological and scientific power, and it decreased tremendously in spiritual vigor, to use your term. You are right, not many people in the west today would die for anything. Whereas most Muslims would probably die for Islam, even the moderate ones could more or less easily be made to do that.

So this confrontation was set up at the original moment when western civilization turned toward secularism, abandoning the overt Church and turning religion inward into a properly psychological, metaphorical 'secondary consciousness' of the self. Freud, Nietzsche, of course those who came before even if they thought of themselves as Christians (Kant for example) were early secularists. These people basically paved the way, oh yeah can't forget Shakespeare and so many artists, writers, Luther himself even if we want to go that far back... this secular path was set a long time ago.

The consequences of the secular path are easy to see in hindsight: the increase in science/tech, the decrease in spiritual vigor, the loss of self-sacrifice as necessary virtue; the inevitable meta-confrontation between new secular and old religious souls, the old paradigm you identify (Catholic, Muslim, Greek) against the new paradigm for which nothing is so hallowed that one might feel the necessity of self-sacrifice before it... the technological prowess turned the secular west into the economic powerhouse, of course also the philosophical tradition that birthed capitalism, but ultimately the secular west is very small compared to the rest of the medieval religious world. Maybe half a billion people in the US, Canada and Europe who are really western secular citizens of this tradition, compared to 7 billion people outside of that tradition and most of whom are religious in some manner or another. And of course the inevitable power and resource gap between the west and the rest adds fuel to the fire of the dynamic of 0.5 vs. 7 billion people. The immigration crisis was probably inevitable, most likely it will get much worse and turn into a literal horde. Europe and the USA will be forced to erect their borders quickly, and arm them to the teeth, that is how bad things could get. Moralism will tend to fall to the wayside in the face of total ruin, or at least those like Merkel who preach stupid moralistic platitudes of shame and guilt and death will have their voices increasingly shouted down by the panic of the thinking person.

I don't know, just some initial thoughts in response to your video.

Oh yeah, I was also thinking that the western demonization of Islam itself is a response to the fact that the west is trying to compensate for its secularism in the face of the religious power of self-sacrifice which the west now lacks. By turning Islam into a monolithic idea, and polarizing values-statements about it as either Totally Good or Totally Bad, as the values-tendencies of those in the west are slowly being polarized around, is maybe a natural response to the west's own inadequacy here.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Europe Studies   Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:07 pm

And also, your insight that people will shun you and attack you whenever you try to achieve something, whenever you fight for a value... this is very true. Whenever you find someone who doesn't run from that, but actually smiles in response to your statement of purpose, there you have found a true human.

 

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"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." --Parodites

"Between this sky and the faces turned toward it there is nothing on which to hang a mythology, a literature, an ethic, or a religion—only stones, flesh, stars, and those truths the hand can touch." --Camus
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PostSubject: Re: Europe Studies   Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:10 pm

I really like how you broadly trace the history of secularization. Shakespeare, yes. That's very interesting!
What a bold way of moralizing that man had, through sheer consequence. I suppose that is just Tragedy, but within Christianity, or this Nordic, Gothic form of it, the Greek form resurfaces in a more sophisticated less titanic and more human manner.

 

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