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 Economy and War

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PostSubject: Economy and War   Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:53 pm

I arrived at an insight during this recording. Which, for a change, is recorded with a clear mic.


 

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PostSubject: Re: Economy and War   Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:49 pm

Well, I will agree that wars are the father of technological advances. But this does not help the economy in general for many years afterwards. The immediate effect of wars is to destroy economic systems. All balance and harmony are lost.
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PostSubject: Re: Economy and War   Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:37 pm

Very nice.

War as values-resolution, and some values resolve in physical combat while others resolve in the combat of ideas or emotions. "Marx turned economy into war -- class warfare is now economy" as you said, that's a great point. I want to combine this with your point about the necessity for wars to end in order for there to be any uplift or creation of values; Marx turned economy into a perpetual war, a war without an end. How could it ever end, when according to Marx we have these weird entities, 'classes', that are eternally in conflict? The definition of various classes is left ambiguous precisely because there is no way to define what one class or another is, where one class begins and another class ends. This is the same problem with abortion, incidentally, and why I think the pro-abortion people tend to be Marxists. This vagueness of thinking is necessary to will into being these false constructs of "class" or "right to kill a developing human being", and these false constructs are then used to prop up the machinery of something that pretends to be thinking but isn't thinking.

Marx, what a fucker, he did all this. What a piece of shit. But well also it may have been inevitable that this deep psychological error in human society and civilization was exposed and allowed to win for a while; it will win until it is defeated, maybe that is the point that we must defeat it. No truth until the error opposite that truth has been contested and slain.

That is the honor of war, the supremacy and courage-nobility. Fighting for something, which always means for one's own values, one's self-valuing, which also means therefore to fight for truth even if only at minimum for the truth of one's own self-valuing.

...


Another thought I had about your video, that war is as Parodites describes the result when the exportability of surplus capital across borders becomes impossible or breaks down. I still do not quite understand this point, I think I understand it about 75% or so... economics is war by other means, sure, and the reverse is true too as you said; any nation-state, any culture or people, needs to acquire, create and trade resources in order to flourish and survive, just like our cells and our bodies needs to consume nutrition and trade materials amongst others of their own types to do that. A whole economy sprouts up for this very purpose of trading necessities and making sure things get where they need to go. When this breaks down the health of the respective entities would suffer.

If nations stop trading economically, ideational, emotionally, then what happens? They stop communicating, they begin to devalue each other while paradoxically at the same time begin to covet each other's resources or even just the idea of what the other might have. Open trade at least means there is a medium by which exchanges are occurring, making the psychological realization that acquiring values from the other is possible; when this breaks down, then whatever the other side has becomes a monolithic Other, a kind of terror that feeds intensities of desire that become irrational and probably fantastical. So when surplus cannot be exported you have a stagnation of surplus where it is created, a lack of efficiency of economic production, which will lead to lower wages and less goods and services, less jobs, and less money in that society (remember that money is just another word for values, for a kind of symbolic tangible and tradable representation of values); then on top of that you add the growing psychological distress and irrational desire-lust fetishizing of the Other with whom you are losing human contact, and you get a growing pressure toward open conflict, war.

Molyneux mentioned that traditionally wars have been largely about taking over the tax system of another state, thus being able to fund yourself with the taxes of these others whom you have just conquered. I know this is part of how Isis has been getting so much of its money from territories it has conquered. This can be linked directly to socialism too: socialism does the things mentioned above, it turns economy into [perpetual] war, it creates more poverty, it breeds distrust and inhumanizing, it fetishizes the Other, and thus it creates a trend toward open violence to resolve the internal values-conflicts that are going on but cannot be resolve rationally or in thought or conversation, because socialism/Marxism has basically removed those as options.

If economy is perpetual war, then economy is the perpetual prevention of any values-resolutions. Individual values can be resolved and are resolved in the economy, but only certain kinds of values; monetary values, which product is superior in what contexts and for what reasons, what marketing campaign is superior, all that sort of thing. But real values, human thought and ideas, the struggle for truths, fundamental valuing is not something that is able to be resolved economically anymore. Capitalism has therefore been cut off at the source, and what we have nowadays is just the shadow of capitalism, something resembling capitalism in shape and form and movement but without any center, with no heart, with no real values-competition. This is most obvious now with all the censorship efforts going on in Youtube and elsewhere, or like that video I just posted about how Facebook and all the other social media are working in tandem with nations like Pakistan to target 'thought criminals' (free thinkers) for those corrupt theocratic states. What a fucking joke, those companies and their products and services do not therefore represent anything like true capitalism or a true economy of values... at best they are a severe value-limiting and pruning, keeping valuing at the surface where it can be controlled and pushed into channels that do not really change anything.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Economy and War   Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:39 am

Thrasymachus wrote:


Marx, what a fucker, he did all this. What a piece of shit.

It's nice to know that we are in agreement regarding this.
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PostSubject: Re: Economy and War   Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:59 pm

Cycles of expansion and contraction, or rather of diffusion and concentration.

The society is a massive field in which are located numerous points of capital, 'wealth', as well as are located numerous points of perspective, 'living people' and minds. Let's say there are 10,000 times the number of capital-quanta for living-quanta; so x is the value of living-quanta (people) and 10,000x is the value of total capital.

Capital is distributed across people in shifting patterns. Right now the trend is toward concentration: as the number of people per capital aggregate is decreasing, capital-quanta are concentrating in the hands of fewer people. This will ultimately lead to war, as Parodites has noted with his comments about economy and the ability or inability to trade wealth excess as the producst of labor across geographical and socioeconomic boundaries; as more people are left with less capital, tensions increase in society, and one way this is being compensated for is by expanding trade outside of the society, i.e. trade with the US and the rest of the world.

'Free trade' and the fact that the US has become the global consumer of reliability has occurred in part because of how the capital-quanta in the US society are continuing to be increasingly concentrated rather than diffused. The only way to pretend war, as concentration increases beyond a sustainable point, is to expand trade networks outside the society in order to siphon capital into the vortex of the society and its maw of consumption, because some of this consumption is redirected back into living-quanta (people) as a means of partly offsetting the increasing concentration of capital away from the people. As an example, a dollar today buys less than half what it used to just 30 years ago, and just 30 years ago a family of four in the US could survive relatively well on one income (and if you go back 50-60 years, that same family of four could survive relatively well on one income based in a factory job without even needing a college education), but now a family of four is often poor even with two incomes, even if one or both of those incomes is from a college education, and yet despite this tremendous loss of capital these same people today have computers, flat TVs, iPhones, the internet, access to a plethora of cheap goods from China and around the world as they can simply walk into a Walmart or Costco.


China and Japan and Europe have become reliant upon the US to be the global consumer of reliability, and continue to prop up this situation by purchasing US treasury bonds (giving free money to the US, which the US then uses to consume from the rest of the world). China and Japan and Europe can do this because all of these places have fiat currencies processed by reserve banking, i.e. they can simply invent money out of thin air and move it around at almost no cost. This results in attempts to hide the created money away while at the same time making it useful, so as to accomplish two tasks at the same time: prevent runaway inflation, and allow created money to still be "spent".

Banks and financial institutions have large reserves of capital right now, something mandated by law in the US after the 2008 collapse, however the real reason for these large unusable reserves isn't to make sure that if there is another financial collapse these banks and institutions will remain solvent, rather the real reason is so that the Federal Reserve can pump billions of dollars into these banks and institutions without it attracting notice. This is an example of where the extra, created fiat money is hidden away. It is also hidden away on the Fed's balance sheets, of course, and in various US federal government departments, such as social security which holds a sizable number of treasury bonds, as to many other federal departments.

So the entire system has been leveraged in such a way as to offset, as much as possible, the detrimental effects of the continuing concentration of capital-quanta into the hands of fewer and fewer people. While we all have iPhones and computers and watch HBO and drive decent cars, we are all also getting much poorer over time, except those at the top who are getting much, much richer. Trump cancelled the TPP, which probably means that different factions within the elite are fighting each other for larger shares of the capital-quanta that are being displaced from the American people, and that the Obama-sponsored TPP was designed to benefit mostly only a certain group of such elites rather than others. We can assume that the TPP would have skewed the game in favor of globalist elitists like Soros and away from more properly American elitists, like Trump. But without the TPP, the system is under even more pressure. New capital-quanta must be found outside of the western world, to keep the western world afloat, meanwhile Trump will renegotiate with Canada, Mexico, and probably the UK also, which will likely result in NAFTA-similar deals but with slightly more capital-quanta flowing to the US than had been before.

This coupled with increasing taxes on the top income bracket, and forcing hundreds of billions of dollars or even trillions of dollars back into the US from their hiding places abroad, could really start to fix the situation and prevent war: it would relieve some of the pressure on society, it would slow down the concentration of capital-quanta and would start to slowly move toward more distribution and diffusion of capital-quanta throughout US society. This could be done while also maintaining some degree of China, Japan and Europe funded T-bill debt spending by the US, so that while diffusion of capital is occurring the elites are also not feeling entirely the squeeze of that, which could allow some of them to get on board with the idea. If we could convince some of them that they would be able to handle 5% rates of return rather than 10-15%, but the benefit is also that the entire economy will not collapse and civil war will not erupt, thus making the entire society and economy long-term stable again, they would probably go along with it. We could slowly forcibly wind down the number of T-bills issued, say by 5% a year, thus gradually shrinking new debt without disrupting the US global consumption too much.

And as more capital is diffused throughout American society the middle class will start to grow tremendously, which will bolster the economy from its very heart, from the very ground of the economic as such. This bolstered growing ground of the real economy would provide the solid basis needed to continue to shrink new T-bills issued and gradually start releasing some of the trillions of dollars stashed hidden away in the Federal Reserve, the US bureaucracy, and banks and financial institutions. This will all need to be done very carefully, but it could be done; plus a lot of those trillions of dollars that are presently hidden away could be slowly traded on currency exchange markets, converted into foreign currencies such as the pound, the euro, the yen, or the rubble in order to slowly filter more capital back into these other parts of the world, thus stabilizing them while at the same time providing a slow release valve for the Federal Reserve and the Treasury, so that inflation does not spike out of control.

If this delicate, coordinated and more "fair" approach is not attempted soon, and things either continue as they are or simply hit a wall and mostly stop going as they are, then it will indeed be economic collapse, and war.

 

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"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

Peace. War. Love. Wordz




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PostSubject: Re: Economy and War   Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:23 pm

"Marx turned economy into war... class warfare is now essentially economy." --Fixed.

Yes, I agree with you in this video in the OP. Economy as such has always had a warfare element to it, especially in early capitalist economies (more free markets open to more only moderately wealthy people), but now economy is a literal war, warfare as such has sublimated and become the upper tiers of the economy as such. The loss of the value of war as the father of all things has been felt or reacted to in terms of the possibility for attempting to make the value of economy and economic war into the father of all things, indeed we see this with technological start-ups such as Microsoft and Google and Amazon, that economy is now the means through which new things are fathered into existence.

These new economic formulas (Google, Amazon etc. and I would also include the modern reserve banks, the Fed Reserve itself, and Wall Street generally in all this) are forms of micro-warfare. Today, the upper tiers of economy have become about dozens or hundreds of micro-warfare units, like semi-independent armies or military units, all moving around in a virtual space that maps onto the real world... moving around in ways that are shifting from mutual alliance to combat all the time, and all struggling to rise further up in the tier-hierarchy and thus gain more advantage over others below them. Actual real war is now not anything noble, it is pure cowardice as you say in your video. Even soldiers I know who went to Iraq admit they have no idea why they were there.

And real war is now the progeny of the economy, as you said... yes absolutely. There are no more real wars, not anymore. And in fact we can see this as a regression, a decline in human evolution, since these kind of wars-from-economic-need are actually hallmarks of humanity's ancient, more tribal past, back before wars were even capable of deciding real values.

War was at first an ignoble, dirty thing of necessity, fighting for mere land and resources, and for a larger tax base of people; it was simply about the necessity of survival of tribalistic or medieval units of society. Once real society, the nation-state and a legal system, were formulated then war became possible to be noble, and did become noble (deciding values, i.e. fathering all things)... and now, in the 21st century, we see this slipping away again as if we are descending back into our own dark pre-history, where no values at all can be decided by open and honest opposition and combat, by having winners and losers.

Even when the economy today decides values and fathers things into existence, it does so in a half-ass, lackluster and unserious manner, because these values and things fathered into existence are simply intended to be nothing more than mere products, the fleeting offspring of a hive much like insects: Amazon is the hive and it creates its countless millions of insect drones and sends them out in the world, scurrying as they do to find grains of food and bring them back to the hive, only to then die as their lifespan is so short and they have no other purpose than to simply collect grains of food for the hive.... this is exactly analogous to the logic of modern corporations like Amazon, which send out their "worker bees" (consumer products) into the world whose purpose is to bring back grains of "food" (money) to the hive, at which point the worker bee/consumer product dies (is used up, thrown away).

Thus even if economy today has become the father of all things, including of wars, then no true values are being decided, only surface values, because the logic of the hive-economic that runs the western consumer world is not really capable of having or declaring values. Nothing lasting can be fathered into existence because nothing lasting can be created, with the exception of the further consolidation and expansion of the hive-structure itself, for which purpose alone now all real wars are waged.

 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

Peace. War. Love. Wordz




“Grow a pair, preferably between your eyes.” -Styxhexenhammer666

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