'Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day. But when I follow at my pleasure the serried multitude of the stars in their circular course, my feet no longer touch the earth.'
 
HomeCalendarFAQSearchMemberlistRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Fuck the Alt-Right

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Fixed Cross
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3911
Join date : 2011-11-09

PostSubject: Fuck the Alt-Right   Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:07 pm


 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Thrasymachus
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3301
Join date : 2011-11-03
Location : Will to Power

PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:27 pm

To start, I haven't seen anyone calling for isolationism. I have seen people calling for a stop on the US continued entering into ME wars and violence. That isn't isolationism. It is sane rational nationalism, it is basically just not being a neocon.

Wanting to focus your resources and wealth and energy on your own nation isn't isolationism, it is common sense. Globalism is the opposite idea, that nation-states do not matter and are invalid. The way neocons act is to invalidate the category of the nation-state. It is an implicit globalism and I oppose it quite strongly.

I honestly don't know why you associate the alt right or Styx or anyone of these people with isolationism. Maybe you're seeing people I'm not aware of, if so please link them so I can observe this "isolationism" for myself.

As for the argument that "we made the problem so we need to fix it" that is basically the same as saying that "I robbed and destroyed this guy's house so now I need to be the one to come in and police what happened and build a new house", you don't trust the aggressor and enemy with fixing the very problems he starts. The US through the globalists is the enemy of the ME, that is a plain fact, and I don't trust any of these globalist cronies with solving the problems there. Why would the people of the ME expect the US to solve any of the problems it has created? The US will voluntarily redress and honestly fix what it is presently fucking up and had been for decades? Why the fuck would that be a logical thing to expect?

Anyway, we disagree deeply on how we see these issues. Most likely we are seeing different sources of information and different commentators. I honestly don't know which "alt right" commentators you've seen to make you associate the alt right with isolationism. The US is heavily leveraged and entangled in economic and military alliances around the world, so-called isolationism simply wouldn't be possible; but we certainly can stop the neocons at their own globalist game.

I still don't understand what 150k US troops warring against the Syrian government would achieve. Please lay this out for me in plain terms, I want to see how you think about the end game and goals here. What, precisely, do you see coming from that, other than the well known neocon globalist objectives that I already laid out in the other thread?

 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fixed Cross
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3911
Join date : 2011-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:49 pm

My sources are Styx, Alex Jones, and people around them. I consider all of them isolationalist, with their deluded views that the US is not engaged right now in full scale war in Syria.

Isis is US army. Its brought into being by US strategems, policies and resources, operates on US logistics and material, did Obamas bidding. What 150 000 regular troops would add, is that the quality of the army changes for the better, that the US has the courage and integrity to fight its wars with its own people. Thats first.

Trump has already fulfilled campaign promises on economics, and to someone who has been in the region and studied it for decades it looks like he is also about to keep his promise regarding isis.

It really seems people have no idea why isis erupted in Syria. Its because of Assad. Horror creates horror. The US had it very easy mobilizing people for isis, as Assad is very possible the most feared and loathed head of state on the planet.

Look up some footage of pipe and barrel bombs that he has been throwing on residential quarters since he's been in power. Even in 2002, many buildings were missing pieces and half on fire because he had felt the need to correct some sects.

Only someone who wants to live under such a regime has the right to tell the US to take off its hands now. Before 2003, or even 1989, it would have been different.

 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Thrasymachus
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3301
Join date : 2011-11-03
Location : Will to Power

PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:31 pm

I fundamentally disagree. I want an end to US imperial interventions at the behest of insane globalism and the military industrial complex. I want an end to US funded ISIS and the rest too. That is my value here.

I'm sure you can see how that value necessitates that I disagree with you that the US should be pursuing even more... imperialist interventionism and globalism. So you are saying that the cure for the disease is more of the disease? I cannot agree.

 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fixed Cross
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3911
Join date : 2011-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:47 pm

Of course I also disagree to that.

Ive given my position and reasons. None of that suggests I want a perpetuation of the same. Please stop putting words in my mouth. I am for Trump, all the way. And against the left, the right, the middle, the neocons, the globalists, the Russians, the Chinese, - I am for Trumps America - there is no one else who has the vision.

None of this is the same as before.

You interpret the concept of agency, actor, differently than I do. I see only individuals, people, you rather see institutions and precedents.

On technical grounds I also see no precedent.  Trumps strike utterly and distinctly different from any Neocon strikes. I have great confidence in Mattis, his motivations as well as his skills. I want Trump to end the war, he's capable of it, and not run away and pretend it then also goes away.

Remember, Im not a US citizen, I have no interest in the US leaving its worst business untended to right at the moment when there is a sane person in charge. Fuck no. It's extremely noble of Trump to engage. To address the shadow of his nation, the scourge of the world, and try to lift the curse for all of us.

I dont care about Obamacare nearly as much as this. Trump is perhaps going to keep in check the refugee crisis (obviously if Assad stays in the country is entirely going to drain, since the majority is sunni and thus allied with isis and not Assad, and Assad never did anything else than torture them into submission before the war, so -- do the math.) If Assad goes, some Syrians may want to live there.

 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fixed Cross
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3911
Join date : 2011-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:08 pm

I think in general where the left finds truth outrageous and ridiculous, the alt right finds it simply unpleasant and unnecessary. It's much better arguing with these prancy types than it is with those on the left who are incapable of even understanding what you're saying. On the other hand it's pointless other than to now and then insert some facts and let them figure out how they like these facts and if they are able to work with them. If not they'll make a big show of shooting the messenger.

 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fixed Cross
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3911
Join date : 2011-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:23 pm

It makes more sense to me now, the whole thing - I am neither part of the right or the left - I am a lover of culture. I don't judge in terms of political doctrines, only in terms of methods.
And that means I have to stop doing what I'm doing.

 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fixed Cross
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3911
Join date : 2011-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:00 am

These dandy's are pretty easily triggered.
Funny.

Its noticeable that alt righters have generally no tendency to read stuff about or from other countries, and they never leave their town.
This is plenty of reason why they are unfit to judge foreign policy.

They are in fact so puny in their scope, so weak and brittle that when I related my Syrian experiences below sticks video, it turns out people dont actually believe that someone would do that, go there. These shills assumed I was lying, and inventing the stories about suicide bombing kids.

This renders them less relevant qua foreign policy than most European lefties. They literally might as well believe in Santaclause, that would not make them less realistic about the world outside of their fair county.

 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fixed Cross
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3911
Join date : 2011-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:43 am

This gives off a definitive value signal -

where Ive risked and done more than a normal person would do to gather knowledge abut truth and mankind, there is a group composed of people who claim to 'truthers', but don't even recognize the word of an experienced man who has seen the world. That means that whatever efforts a man makes to find truth, the alt right will laugh at the claim that he has left his house. There is such a vast gap of depth and integrity between the world I inhabit and the fashion show that the internet generation puts up as a climate of investigation, that I can only conceive of the entire alt right now as a joke, a joke that played a part in getting Trump elected, not out of any political understanding, but because they like his mannerisms.

Surely there is some concern about policy and agenda, but you see how they steer clear of any subject that might challenge their beliefs. Which is basically half of the information from Europe and the ME. Styx, the smartest of them, kept blundering gigantically when it came to Germany and the Netherlands, He did not even know Wilders had already been larger than he is now, and in government, and he did not manage to pick up on the info when it was offered.  I cant imagine that sort of sloppiness from a European vis a vis American politics. It confirms what Europeans think about Republicans - that they are among the most ignorant and myopic people on the planet.

It's the one ubiquitous reason that despite everything, Europeans as a rule prefer muslims over Republicans. At least muslims value the continent enough to go there - as do many Democrats. To hear someone like Styx talk about Germany and the Netherlands is like hearing the pope analyze Zarathustra. It's imaginative, I'll say that. But also painfully weak.

 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fixed Cross
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3911
Join date : 2011-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:06 am

That was really an eye opener, not being believed about my work and experience simply because guys dont like to believe that Assad is as bad as all that.

They actually value Assad over Truth. Pretty amazing standard of lowness.

 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Thrasymachus
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3301
Join date : 2011-11-03
Location : Will to Power

PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:46 am

I wonder why they did not believe you? Can you post some of the thread conversations here, I'm curious to look at them.

It is good to realize most of these alt-righters are not philosophers; and this applies to anyone political, on any 'side' of politics... the vast majority of them are not philosophers. And it is not their job to translate politics into properly philosophical terms.  Rather their job is simply to be vessels of values, their own self-value, and to en mass act as bulwarks against certain things, certain possibilities and outcomes.

This is why the right only truly comes alive in its opposition to the left, and why the left only truly comes alive in its opposition to the right. Once the right or the left have the chance to govern on its own, it becomes quickly obvious that there is very little actual substance there.

The political dualities serve to delimit each other, that is really their only function. The "true" politics is the politics of all sides, which is synthetic and anti-synthetic at once, derivative and daemonic in nature. Always trying to rationalize and collapse to a higher order, always unable in part to complete that process; and always fraught with errors and illusions.


The alt-right sprung into existence as a response to current world-politics. Again, it is a form of resistance, an opposition-force much more than anything positive and self-coherent.

 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fixed Cross
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3911
Join date : 2011-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:12 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:
I wonder why they did not believe you? Can you post some of the thread conversations here, I'm curious to look at them.

It must have been because they are as lazy, weak and dumb as they are. Ive never encountered people so backward and cowardly before.

It was on one of Styxes videos, cant remember which. Im definitely through with that prancy solipsistic nonsense, entertaining as his jokes sometimes are, he's really just that, a comedian.

Quote :
It is good to realize most of these alt-righters are not philosophers; and this applies to anyone political, on any 'side' of politics... the vast majority of them are not philosophers. And it is not their job to translate politics into properly philosophical terms.  Rather their job is simply to be vessels of values, their own self-value, and to en mass act as bulwarks against certain things, certain possibilities and outcomes.

And, apparently, their main task is to be masseuses of the balls of mass murdering dictators when it comes down to something that could actually matter.

They aren't philosophers, I realize that, but I had figured them for somewhat human at least.

Quote :
This is why the right only truly comes alive in its opposition to the left, and why the left only truly comes alive in its opposition to the right. Once the right or the left have the chance to govern on its own, it becomes quickly obvious that there is very little actual substance there.

None of these morons will ever govern, though.
Ive not actually ever learned anything new from Styx, Ive heard him make numerous dramatic mistakes though.
I was taken a bit by his comedic talent, which he does have, to a degree. Not that he could earn money without lying about politics though.

Quote :
The political dualities serve to delimit each other, that is really their only function. The "true" politics is the politics of all sides, which is synthetic and anti-synthetic at once, derivative and daemonic in nature. Always trying to rationalize and collapse to a higher order, always unable in part to complete that process; and always fraught with errors and illusions.

True politics always originates with a philosopher.
When people are too brittle and clumsy to apprehend a philosophers meaning when theyre being blessed with some gift from him, that means they wont ever amount to anything in political world.

No one in politics listens to Styx. Even so, he's used some of the ideas I gave him in comments without mentioning the source - of course he botched these ideas, placed them out of context.

Saddest thing is that his whole youtube revolt alliance appears to be meant to guarantee his revenue. What scumbag. He steals ideas from people with less than 50 views, doesnt mention them, and goes on about alliances to protect independent content creators so that they can continue to cash out. Really very ugly.

Quote :
The alt-right sprung into existence as a response to current world-politics. Again, it is a form of resistance, an opposition-force much more than anything positive and self-coherent.

I take them more as a reclusive type of hipster, not related to political realities.

 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Thrasymachus
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3301
Join date : 2011-11-03
Location : Will to Power

PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:27 pm

Styx is far from perfect, same goes for Molyneux. They all make mistakes, they all have certain deficiencies of perspective and knowledge that others do have and know. I don't see this as a fatal flaw, just as a necessity of self-valuing; it will never be perfectly perceiving-knowing.

I've never seen anything from Styx or Molyneux that caused me to question their motives. Of course they want to maintain a large viewer base. That isn't bad. Neither of them takes ad revenue.

YouTube is censoring their content and the content of many others. That is bad. I would expect them and anyone else to fight that censorship even if part of that is their desire to maintain their large number of viewers. I would do the same in their position.

If he took your ideas without credit then yes that's bad. It could simply be a case of noble borrowing, the dynamic interaction of ideas wherein the better ideas are taken and used, not always with proper attribution. But I won't defend him since I don't know specifically to what ideas you're referring to that he took from you. Again, he's no philosopher, but I think he serves a good purpose. I agree his comment about Assad liberating his own people is quite naive, but I also understand his point: liberate Syria from foreign (US) influence in organizing and funding and arming all these "rebels" and "terrorists". One doesn't need to defend any tyrant in particular to defend the notion that Syria or any other nation/people should 'liberate' themselves from that kind of pernicious foreign influence.

 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fixed Cross
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3911
Join date : 2011-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:37 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:
Styx is far from perfect, same goes for Molyneux. They all make mistakes, they all have certain deficiencies of perspective and knowledge that others do have and know. I don't see this as a fatal flaw, just as a necessity of self-valuing; it will never be perfectly perceiving-knowing.

I've never seen anything from Styx or Molyneux that caused me to question their motives. Of course they want to maintain a large viewer base. That isn't bad. Neither of them takes ad revenue.

YouTube is censoring their content and the content of many others. That is bad. I would expect them and anyone else to fight that censorship even if part of that is their desire to maintain their large number of viewers. I would do the same in their position.

Styx gets plenty of views, he calls himself a brand, and does it to make money. Which is why he refuses to engage ideas that would render his whole shtick irrelevant. At heart he's just a con, working actively and aggressively against truth.

Quote :
If he took your ideas without credit then yes that's bad. It could simply be a case of noble borrowing, the dynamic interaction of ideas wherein the better ideas are taken and used, not always with proper attribution. But I won't defend him since I don't know specifically to what ideas you're referring to that he took from you. Again, he's no philosopher, but I think he serves a good purpose. I agree his comment about Assad liberating his own people is quite naive, but I also understand his point: liberate Syria from foreign (US) influence in organizing and funding and arming all these "rebels" and "terrorists". One doesn't need to defend any tyrant in particular to defend the notion that Syria or any other nation/people should 'liberate' themselves from that kind of pernicious foreign influence.

You are very forgiving about such comments, I accept them from no one. It's precisely that type of genocidal apathy that Ive always fought, and it's not nearly as bad on the left as it turns out to be with these clowns.

I had truly not imagined anyone being capable of such ignorance about the ME. Trust me, that doesnt occur anywhere in Europe.



Of course you do have a lot of actual nazis commenting to Styx, probably a third or so - so perhaps these people actually like Assad - precisely for his depraved cruelty.

 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fixed Cross
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3911
Join date : 2011-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:06 pm

Molineux is very well informed compared to Styx.

 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fixed Cross
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3911
Join date : 2011-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:09 pm

I wouldnt have put him in the alt right.

This is good.


 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Thrasymachus
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3301
Join date : 2011-11-03
Location : Will to Power

PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:22 pm

I wouldn't listen to Styx if I suspected he had impure motives. But of course that's also a matter of perspective, I'm sure you have reasons for disliking him now.

He has spoken against the Nazis in his comments threads, he says many of them are paid shills, which I agree is very likely. I've also never seen him say anything that made me think "this guy is a secret fascist / Nazi sympathizer." Again, if I thought that I would stop listening to him immediately.

He lives in Vermont, I'm sure he doesn't have real exposure to the ME. I know you do have that exposure, and I trust your views on the ME very much. I think the only time we have profoundly disagreed is recently where you support US invasion of Syria and nation-building there. I understand your points on that, and if I didn't see a much larger picture I could absolutely agree. There are a lot of conservatives here in the US who also support invading Syria, I know because I hear them on the radio and I see their comments online. I also happen to understand the US conservative mindset very well from personal experience, and certainly many of them would want to "saddle up" and go fight Evil in Syria. These same people also wanted the US to invade Afghanistan and Iraq on the same moralistic sentiments; but these same people are also entirely ignorant of the larger games going on. Their moralism, which I will for sake of argument concede is noble, is simply being used for other purposes they are unaware of.

Styx isn't moralistic, which I like. He is an occultist also, he doesn't really make moral statements generally. Thus he isn't going to get on the bandwagon of American Christian Conservatives rallying for a "holy war", seeing as we already know the outcomes of that sort of thinking.

MAGA is simply about refocusing the US on... the US. I'm not saying we should abandon the ME to hell, but I'm honest enough to admit their hell is essentially western caused, and I still haven't seen s single tenable plan or strategy for how Syrian invasion would end any better than Afghanistan or Iraq invasions ended. Here is what I want: Trump and Putin and Xi sit down at a table and come up with an approach to Syria and Assad that satisfies all three of them, and then all three countries act in concert to that end. Russia is not our enemy, although Putin may wish the US would fall, fundamentally he is not our enemy, because Putin really only wants to see the neocon-neolib globalist cabal fall, and I want to see that fall too. Putin wants America to be American again, and I also want that. Russia isn't communist anymore, that is very important to understand; yes Russia is an oligarchy, which is bad, but so is the US now. So I say, work with China and Russia, don't make enemies of them, and return sovereign control of ME to the people there. I know that's not easy to do, but a huge reason it's so hard is precisely because of the globalist military industrial complex "shadow government" that benefits from these wars.

Anyway those are my thoughts on it.

 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fixed Cross
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3911
Join date : 2011-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:16 pm

On the one hand I seem harsh on Styx, on the other hand he would not even last on ILP.

 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Thrasymachus
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3301
Join date : 2011-11-03
Location : Will to Power

PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:58 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
On the one hand I seem harsh on Styx, on the other hand he would not even last on ILP.

Haha yes you're probably right about that.

 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Thrasymachus
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3301
Join date : 2011-11-03
Location : Will to Power

PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:18 pm


 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fixed Cross
Tower
Tower
avatar

Posts : 3911
Join date : 2011-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:45 pm

Pretty decent - he himself appears to know nothing of Syrias religious constitution either, though. It really seems to be entirely unknown that Assad is Alawite. Representing 11% of the population.

Obviously, it is impossible for him to ever maintain order. He never was able to do that without very brutal oppression anyway. How many sunnis he killed is unknown, too many to count, but we know he left 25 Jews alive of a once thriving population, and is expected to be praised for that as a leader of a diverse country.

To put stock in the notion that Assad was a US ally is really a bit silly of Molineux. Assad was just trying not to also get invaded like his Baath brother Saddam.

 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Fuck the Alt-Right   

Back to top Go down
 
Fuck the Alt-Right
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Before The Light :: Tree :: The World :: News-
Jump to: