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PostSubject: Three Kinds of People   Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:17 am

There are three basic types of people: the Tyrants, the Adventurers, and the Sheep.

Tyrants seek to establish what they decide they will get established.

Adventurers seek to react to situations, and have a taste for situations.

Sheep survive, and do so much better when they adopt pastors, or complicated industrialized systems of control.

And, as Nietzsche so kindly pointed out, there probably doesn't exist a person that doesn't have each to some degree.

Hell, they are probably evolutionary mechanisms of behavior that have different triggers, like who ends up in what position of a dog pack.
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PostSubject: Re: Three Kinds of People   Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:15 pm

Pezer wrote:
There are three basic types of people: the Tyrants, the Adventurers, and the Sheep.

Tyrants seek to establish what they decide they will get established.

Adventurers seek to react to situations, and have a taste for situations.

Sheep survive, and do so much better when they adopt pastors, or complicated industrialized systems of control.

And, as Nietzsche so kindly pointed out, there probably doesn't exist a person that doesn't have each to some degree.

Hell, they are probably evolutionary mechanisms of behavior that have different triggers, like who ends up in what position of a dog pack.

Interesting breakdown. I like your middle distinction between sheep and tyrant, the "adventurer": someone who wants to experience life, situations, occasions, new experiences, who finds themselves most in reacting to novelty. A type that does not desire power over others nor expressly desire escape from the powers of others over him or herself. To the adventurer, survival might not be as important as the quality of life lived, risky experiences are justified because they are adventurous, they bring thrill, novelty, new possibilities (unlike the sheep, for which risk and even novelty is a thing constantly to be avoided).


I have my own breakdown of "types of people..." that I tend to think of: that there are two types of people, those who see and directly know the power and reality of thought/consciousness, and those who do not. Those people who see thought, affect, indeed all internal subjective experience as substantially real and practically powerful in its own right, and those people who tend to not see this or who see thought/feeling/consciousness as less-than-totally-real, or subservient to an "actual reality" that is more materialist-physical. I would classify writers, poets, philosophers in the first category, and (most) scientists and most "average" people in the latter.

 

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"Do you hold out hope, then?" ... "I hold out dignity." ... "She will need opiates before long, for the pain. She will cease being who she is." ... "Then I will love who she becomes."  --Penny Dreadful
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PostSubject: Re: Three Kinds of People   Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:55 pm

Capable wrote:
Pezer wrote:
There are three basic types of people: the Tyrants, the Adventurers, and the Sheep.

Tyrants seek to establish what they decide they will get established.

Adventurers seek to react to situations, and have a taste for situations.

Sheep survive, and do so much better when they adopt pastors, or complicated industrialized systems of control.

And, as Nietzsche so kindly pointed out, there probably doesn't exist a person that doesn't have each to some degree.

Hell, they are probably evolutionary mechanisms of behavior that have different triggers, like who ends up in what position of a dog pack.

Interesting breakdown. I like your middle distinction between sheep and tyrant, the "adventurer": someone who wants to experience life, situations, occasions, new experiences, who finds themselves most in reacting to novelty. A type that does not desire power over others nor expressly desire escape from the powers of others over him or herself. To the adventurer, survival might not be as important as the quality of life lived, risky experiences are justified because they are adventurous, they bring thrill, novelty, new possibilities (unlike the sheep, for which risk and even novelty is a thing constantly to be avoided).


I have my own breakdown of "types of people..." that I tend to think of: that there are two types of people, those who see and directly know the power and reality of thought/consciousness, and those who do not. Those people who see thought, affect, indeed all internal subjective experience as substantially real and practically powerful in its own right, and those people who tend to not see this or who see thought/feeling/consciousness as less-than-totally-real, or subservient to an "actual reality" that is more materialist-physical. I would classify writers, poets, philosophers in the first category, and (most) scientists and most "average" people in the latter.

The adventurer may have any number of moral codes, so novelty of feeling is isn't everything. There is a code to uphold, out of respect for the gods. The tyrant can also have any number of their own moral codes and, of course, sheep.

The "types" are descriptions of goals, wants, "wills."
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PostSubject: Re: Three Kinds of People   Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:49 am

Pezer wrote:
There are three basic types of people: the Tyrants, the Adventurers, and the Sheep.

Tyrants seek to establish what they decide they will get established.

Adventurers seek to react to situations, and have a taste for situations.

Sheep survive, and do so much better when they adopt pastors, or complicated industrialized systems of control.

And, as Nietzsche so kindly pointed out, there probably doesn't exist a person that doesn't have each to some degree.

Hell, they are probably evolutionary mechanisms of behavior that have different triggers, like who ends up in what position of a dog pack.
What about the Individual him/her -self?
Do you see no human beings as individuals who listen to and follow their own calling - who march to an entirely different drummer than that of others? I would, in actuality, say that your above three - all react to situations.
The individual, on the other hand, chooses to create his own situations and thus responds accordingly...although I suppose one could say that the tyrant, the adventurer and the sheep also create their own situations but it is the motivation/intent which separates them from the individual. The tyrant seeks to gain power and control over others and to abuse; the adventurer seeks to defy and transcend death's meaning by 'diving' into life (not such a negativething of course) and the sheep seeks to surrender his will and autonomy by creating a scenario in which he is helpless but also gains delusional strength by attaching himself to the herd.

The tyrant...the adventurer...and the sheep ....is this where evolution has brought us to? Do you see any other categories of people?

And those 'triggers' themselves - these are what we need to always be consciously aware of. Our instincts are wonderful and work for us as tools when they are in harmony with our intelligence and rightful intentions.

 

___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Three Kinds of People   Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:32 am

Pezer...

Quote :
The tyrant can also have any number of their own moral codes and, of course, sheep.
Could the tyrant live by what can be considered a 'moral' code - doesn't moral imply what is just and right? Or does he simply live by what satisfies his own needs/desires for power? Wouldn't that, in itself, conflict with a sense of morality?

The sheep may or may not have their own moral code - but I would say that it is usually built into what is good for the herd - and according to its beliefs and that may or may not necessarily in itself be moral either. Am I wrong?


 

___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Three Kinds of People   Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:58 am

VaerosTanarg wrote:
Pezer wrote:
There are three basic types of people: the Tyrants, the Adventurers, and the Sheep.

Tyrants seek to establish what they decide they will get established.

Adventurers seek to react to situations, and have a taste for situations.

Sheep survive, and do so much better when they adopt pastors, or complicated industrialized systems of control.

And, as Nietzsche so kindly pointed out, there probably doesn't exist a person that doesn't have each to some degree.

Hell, they are probably evolutionary mechanisms of behavior that have different triggers, like who ends up in what position of a dog pack.
What about the Individual him/her -self?
Do you see no human beings as individuals who listen to and follow their own calling - who march to an entirely different drummer than that of others? I would, in actuality, say that your above three - all react to situations.
The individual, on the other hand, chooses to create his own situations and thus responds accordingly...although I suppose one could say that the tyrant, the adventurer and the sheep also create their own situations but it is the motivation/intent which separates them from the individual. The tyrant seeks to gain power and control over others and to abuse; the adventurer seeks to defy and transcend death's meaning by 'diving' into life (not such a negativething of course) and the sheep seeks to surrender his will and autonomy by creating a scenario in which he is helpless but also gains delusional strength by attaching himself to the herd.

The tyrant...the adventurer...and the sheep ....is this where evolution has brought us to? Do you see any other categories of people?

And those 'triggers' themselves - these are what we need to always be consciously aware of. Our instincts are wonderful and work for us as tools when they are in harmony with our intelligence and rightful intentions.

The person you are describing sounds like a mix between tyrant and adventurer, but tyrant at the core. It is a missunderstanding of these categories to think that a tyrant seeks to "abuse." A tyrant seeks only to impose.
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PostSubject: Re: Three Kinds of People   Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:01 pm

VaerosTanarg wrote:
Pezer...

Quote :
The tyrant can also have any number of their own moral codes and, of course, sheep.
Could the tyrant live by what can be considered a 'moral' code - doesn't moral imply what is just and right? Or does he simply live by what satisfies his own needs/desires for power? Wouldn't that, in itself, conflict with a sense of morality?

The sheep may or may not have their own moral code - but I would say that it is usually built into what is good for the herd - and according to its beliefs and that may or may not necessarily in itself be moral either. Am I wrong?


Give me some time to answer these questions on morality, which is a very complex issue.
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PostSubject: Re: Three Kinds of People   Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:34 am

I've been thinking about it and this is a good list. However, it is important to note that it is only a narrow slice of the unfathomable pie of human psychology.
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PostSubject: Re: Three Kinds of People   Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:37 am

Quote :
The person you are describing sounds like a mix between tyrant and adventurer, but tyrant at the core. It is a missunderstanding of these categories to think that a tyrant seeks to "abuse." A tyrant seeks only to impose.
So...what I described the 'individual' as being was....

Do you see no human beings as individuals who listen to and follow their own calling - who march to an entirely different drummer than that of others? I would, in actuality, say that your above three - all react to situations.

The individual, on the other hand, chooses to create his own situations and thus responds accordingly


Well, I suppose that you do have a point there. Without other criteria, these words might ALSO describe a tyrant. A 'real' individual in my book though would ALSO live by a certain code of ethics in which to the best of his/her ability, no harm would be done to others. But one must put 'ethical individual' there.

But I don't understand why you would think such an individual, without the word 'ethical' in there, would necessarily have to be a 'tyrant to the core'. What do you base that on? Doesn't the fact that the individual marches to an entirely different drummer than others presuppose that he is not a tyrant? Tyrants march to the same drummer as many others - they just march as the leader of the pack, the herd. Could a tyrant BE one without his mindless herd? A real individual needs no herd - a tyrant does...though a real individual, as a human being, obviously desires the company of others who live within the same spirit of life and meaning as he/she does. There is a difference between solidarity and the herd mentality.

Quote :
A tyrant seeks only to impose.
And you see nothing abusive about that? At the very least, it borders on abuse, at least in my book.

An individual, and an ethical one at that, senses and knows the value of free will and autonomy within self - and so chooses not to impose his/her will on others - simply seeks understanding and harmony with others - which is not an imposition - unless taken to another level and forced.

But I will agree with you on this point - it is within all of our capacity to become as a tyrant n particular moments or situations - if we are not careful and conscious of ourselves. It is not always an easy thing to allow, to live and to let live and to let go. But I think that unless we strive to live this way, we lose the freedom which we ourselves seek.

 

___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel


Last edited by VaerosTanarg on Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:35 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Three Kinds of People   Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am

Pezer wrote:
I've been thinking about it and this is a good list. However, it is important to note that it is only a narrow slice of the unfathomable pie of human psychology.
A narrow slice...more like a little corner of the most vast galaxy in the universe. But I agree with you, as human beings, we are unfathomable, and it is so important to discover, to come to know just what we are capable of - morally and immorally speaking that is. We are capable of being so corruptible and even the best of us; for instance, the missionary, the crusader, the teacher, the saint...to simply name a few ...anyone, could become, by nature of his/her humanity and lack of understanding and self-exploration and transcendence, a tyrant.

 

___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Three Kinds of People   Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:43 pm

You missunderstand my use of the word tyrant. I don't mean it as a literal allusion to being a political tyrant of a country, I mean it as a psychological type.

An individual that makes his own rules and allways follows them is a tyrant because he is imposing his will on himself.

Not "to the core," "at his core."
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PostSubject: Re: Three Kinds of People   Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:48 am

Pezer wrote:
You missunderstand my use of the word tyrant. I don't mean it as a literal allusion to being a political tyrant of a country, I mean it as a psychological type.

An individual that makes his own rules and allways follows them is a tyrant because he is imposing his will on himself.

Not "to the core," "at his core."
I understand what you're saying now but I personally would not use the word 'tyrant' in this way. Aside from having a negative connotation, I don't think it portrays the above individual in his 'real' light. But it might just be me.

An individual can live by a certain code and not digress from that code (perhaps except in extreme circumstances) but the only way he becomes a tyrant to self is if his self-imposing will causes him to become miserable because of it; deprives him of his joy and doesn't allow for change ever. What comes to mind here is one who has an over-the-top extreme sense of duty. I may be wrong, but I sense that this person is a bit of a masochist...and one's own enemy. And truth to tell, I think that one who is so hard on himself will ultimately be hard on others. As we treat ourselves, we treat others - and vica versa. Smile I learned that somewhere along the way. And then that tyranny is not simply self-imposed.


 

___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Three Kinds of People   Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:34 pm

The 3 kinds of people are actually just those who can count and those who can't.
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PostSubject: Re: Three Kinds of People   Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:29 am

James S Saint wrote:
The 3 kinds of people are actually just those who can count and those who can't.

Nono there's ten, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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PostSubject: Re: Three Kinds of People   Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:49 am

Nono.. it is "those who count and those who don't"
..it's a socialist thing. Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Three Kinds of People   Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:26 am



You forgot the fourth kind of person. The Solitary. He doesn't seek to impose his laws on others, nor does he respect the laws of others. Why try to make slaves out of beasts that cannot perform the tasks you would want performed, that cannot live up to your standard? He doesn't seek out new experiences or dangers either, and cares not for adventure. He doesn't like the herd, so he avoids it. Mostly just because he doesn't like their stink, and also because he simply enjoys being with himself more than he enjoys being with others. Unlike Nietzsche's Zarathustra, he never goes down from his mountain. Why? People come up to him, of their own accord. And he graciously offers to them some of his riches, simply because it amuses him that someone would actually make it to him and be able to scale the mountain by themselves.




 

___________
A sik þau trûðu


Nisus ait, "Dine hunc ardorem mentibus addunt,
Euryale, an sua cuique deus fit dira cupido?"

Have the gods set this ruling passion in my heart,
or does each man's furious passion become his god?
- Virgil.


It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must
from time to time be present.-- Antonin Artaud
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PostSubject: Re: Three Kinds of People   Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:07 pm

Parodites wrote:


You forgot the fourth kind of person. The Solitary. He doesn't seek to impose his laws on others, nor does he respect the laws of others. Why try to make slaves out of beasts that cannot perform the tasks you would want performed, that cannot live up to your standard? He doesn't seek out new experiences or dangers either, and cares not for adventure. He doesn't like the herd, so he avoids it. Mostly just because he doesn't like their stink, and also because he simply enjoys being with himself more than he enjoys being with others. Unlike Nietzsche's Zarathustra, he never goes down from his mountain. Why? People come up to him, of their own accord. And he graciously offers to them some of his riches, simply because it amuses him that someone would actually make it to him and be able to scale the mountain by themselves.

It is almost as if here is described wisdom itself.
But what does such a solitary do if he is, like Zarathustra became after a long solitude, overfull?

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Three Kinds of People   Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:31 pm

Ferment, like all over-ripened fruit.

 

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A sik þau trûðu


Nisus ait, "Dine hunc ardorem mentibus addunt,
Euryale, an sua cuique deus fit dira cupido?"

Have the gods set this ruling passion in my heart,
or does each man's furious passion become his god?
- Virgil.


It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must
from time to time be present.-- Antonin Artaud
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PostSubject: Re: Three Kinds of People   Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:38 pm

If he needs the consolation, if he suffers from over-ripeness and excess vitality, he can always take consolation in the thought of the eternal.


" One of the greatest antidotes to the scruples and the sufferings of conscience is the thought of things of eternal significance, or what we call “wisdom.” Indeed, if human wisdom requires its sanction on the earth, as all other things do, I would have to find it in the fact that it is perhaps the sweetest drop of ambrosia yet to be squeezed from the poppy bud of mortal esperance, and constitutes that profound sleep of heart and soul which every promising case of genius requires if it is not to perish of its doubts, skepticism, and indecisiveness. Should a philosopher then presume to bear the truth? Not in the sense that he should aim to speak the truth for the truth’s sake. He should aim only to entreat such promising cases to the picture of what is, was, and must be, to the image of the eternal and of truth, for they will need such an image in which to repose from the contests and the avarice of the perishing and of chance, as well as from the promises of their own nature, which are heavy pains upon their conscience." -- Hamartia




" Let us bear our witness to man, who is in death given but a loam of dirt to mark his grave which, even if this loam of dirt be the whole earth, makes little difference; man, whose seminal were by Adam communicated but to the grave, from which his sad progeny only can be reckoned. Death's the rounded vault and bright company the course of life does trace, that solitude and lone star attenuate. It is the living but are the exiled, bereft and deserted, and death the great repatriation; old sheol were our only promised land. Let us look at what a frail and trembling, naked, creature he is, or this human will, this so strange a thing, which for us aims to resolution of all the quandaried aspect of our passion. There is little sympathy between our passions and our acts; man's passions are too powerful to be translated into his actions, and man's actions, alas, too powerful to be comprehended by the heart. Love forever dawns, and it no morning knows; in the barren womb of thoughts, our passions die before they're ever born, quenched in the very fire that gave them life.

All mark themselves with their own flame, and the sign of Cain were properly in our own hand, for all that we began in tentative advances ends up a confession, and all confession quickly runs to thoughtless repetition. The image of man is offered by the philosophers and saints as the image of all the universe's struggle, and yet it is but a splintered icon of the mute striving that can be read in living creation, and so blear and ruined an image! Yet, we must admit, of the infinite still high emblem, and immortality. One ruined fragment does repose in our glad youth, to which the knowledge of love belongs, and but one more conferred to the heart aged and pensive, which discovers reverence and pious worship. Yet, when we these thus repair, we find the one's truth proves the other's falsity, one's sickly vice the other's justice. Man is not the measure of all things, and man is not even the measure of man. In the clement modesty of the nightingale at song of which Ovid, Keats, Ruth, and so many others told, I find a still better compass of the world; that strain without answer or chorus, and well-instanced requiem for each starveling era, stanchless of its heroes and romances, but forever sated with his lonesome call." -- Till Hope Creates.

 

___________
A sik þau trûðu


Nisus ait, "Dine hunc ardorem mentibus addunt,
Euryale, an sua cuique deus fit dira cupido?"

Have the gods set this ruling passion in my heart,
or does each man's furious passion become his god?
- Virgil.


It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must
from time to time be present.-- Antonin Artaud
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