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 French Elections

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Thrasymachus
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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:55 pm

To be more precise about what you said regarding sovereignty vs globalism, I think this is a debate over ideas that are clearly enough defined to where there need not be a regression into Marxist group-think of the "either/or" black and white of class warfare.

"Definition of sovereignty
plural sovereignties
1
obsolete :  supreme excellence or an example of it
2
a :  supreme power especially over a body politic
b :  freedom from external control :  autonomy
c :  controlling influence
3
:  one that is sovereign; especially :  an autonomous state "


I find the notion of sovereignty very interesting. Actually the first "obsolete" definition is really interesting, "supreme excellence". We should bring this concept back into the debate over what is sovereignty and why does it matter.

I think the people are sovereign, not the state, and this was the idea behind America. Individual people are sovereign citizens, to whom all rights are reserved precisely because rights are not given by the state but rather are natural rights owned by virtue of what it means to be such and such a being that we are; as you were saying Fixed, that we should think not of right but of ownership. I like this.

Ownership as supreme excellence = sovereignty. This is good.

Therefore the people cannot fail to be sovereign until they have failed themselves, failed to be supremely excellent. Their freedom from external control is only a condition of possibility for true sovereignty, not its guarantor or sufficient condition.

Thus we should not think of nations as sovereign, because it isn't the state or the ruler who is sovereign. In the old monarchies the king was considered sovereign, which meant that the king could not be challenged and had absolute power to make law. His decisions were absolutes. This is how we should understand the idea of sovereignty in our contemporary sense, as individual sovereignty as ownership as supreme excellence. No one can challenge or take that away from the individual who truly embodies this... profound self-valuing.

Thus the model of the autonomous nation-state is a symbol or representation of the principle of the individual as sovereign self-valuing. Nation-states should be autonomous in so far as this is good for individuals-as-sovereigns. Communism and other models of globalism are bad because they undermine or flat out refute the notion of individuals-as-sovereigns; communism lite as socialism is bad because it is a middle-stage wherein individuals are made to be unworthy of the ownership which is theirs by birthright of being such and such a kind of being which they are; a self-valuing is not allowed to form coherently under socialist methods, indeed this is precisely the ethos of socialism: to rob individuals of self-valuing and thus to undermine the category of the individual, therefore the category of the sovereign, in order to pave the way for the total control of the state. Of course "the state" is also merely a symbol and representation of a vast machinery that places absolute power in the hands of a very small number of people who happen to control that machinery for a while.

So actually, a state can never be sovereign. The whole idea of nationalism should be rethought away from "nation-states should have sovereignty" and toward the idea of "nation-states should have relatively high autonomy so as to be conditions of possibility for the sovereignty of individuals qua self-valuing as ownership as supreme excellence."

 

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"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." -Parodites

"Was it necessary for the sense of truth that Nietzsche described as developed by the Judeo-Christian tradition that then manifested itself in the scientific methodology to turn against the symbolic foundation of that structure and demolish it... Jung's answer was that the conflict between science and religion is a consequence of the immature state of both of those domains of thinking... it's just that we aren't good enough at being religious or at being scientific to see how they might be reconciled." -Jordan Peterson
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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:02 pm

Yes, precisely. This breakdown is necessary.
Sovereignty is relative.

Now here's how I've instinctively approached politics.

Each nation of distinction has its own standards of, lets use this compound, excellence/ownership.

Now, some nations have Austerity and Discipline as well as Impersonal Systematization in their core-code, such as Germany, and I'd also say London.
Other nations are more spendthrift, and slower in self-control, and more bountiful, voluptuous. Such as France, Italy, and rural USA.

Then there are far more nations which are smaller and less powerful and that can not enforce any standards, but must work with the ones that can. I count the Netherlands among these, also Mexico, Iran, Indonesia, many second or third tier countries.

The question of whether or not globalism or a kind of universal politics can be answered only after we've answered the question after the identity of the ruler-signifier of this universalness. If France, the US and Irtaly would provide a code for global guidelines of economy and politics, I'd be all for globalism. If Germany and London prescribe, I'm against it.

If Marx prescribes it, I'm against it. But Napoleon is another question - the Napoleonic Code is highly sensible and has become utterly necessary to our civilization. And so there have also been American and Italian leaders that provided "True Code".... but no Germans, nor any Englishmen, except in the arts and sciences, in which perhaps the relations are somewhat reversed, or tilted.

So if you see what I'm getting at, you can estimate why I would think it less objectionable for a French banker to lead than for a German one, and less objectionable to have a rural US dominated globalism, which is bound to be oriented on verifiable goods, than a coastal one which more based based on virtual values.

I see the state of EU affairs that is going to be shifting into place soon as a preparatory stage for real politics, in which actual truth is going to play an explicit part. I see none of the presently active politicians as pertinent to that phase beyond the coming one. All of them are oxen to drag the foundations into place, for something so great that I gladly sit back and exercise patience and simply playful joy, art.

We've won, you know, a victory of cataclysmic proportion, Trumps victory is master signifier to a time when all nations have to find their new place in a global dynamic that shuns Universal Value but requires the Perfect Exertion of capital, strength, and quality. A Global Meritocracy is the only natural outcome, and it will be guided, eased into place, with a lot of diplomacy and feminine virtues- and wiles.

 

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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:27 pm

If Le Pen is strong enough to lead in an economically supercharged logos, I mean in this world of technocratic hypercommerce, and can secede in sanity so as to consolidate the nations trade network as well as its interior capital industry which feeds its technocracy, then this would only speed up the process to a good outcome. Youve probably read some earlier words of mine in favor of a French independence - these logics would then apply. But I simply have my doubts. Ive known her party for some thirty years and I like what she did with it, but I think its spiritual ceiling is too low to account for sovereignty. Macrons virtue over Obobblo is that he has a severe drunkenness about him, which makes it harder to obey. I see him as more of a renegade, and I'm sure the French masons are pretty cool comparatively speaking, gifting the Statue of Liberty and all that.

We'd do well to realize that masonic organizations are bound to property, thus to territory, because real property is only land, real estate and people. So French masons, the original ones, have always rivaled and warred against for example American and German ones as much as they cooperated with them.

Even among the occultist schools that all have their ideas of Unification, there are rivalries between the selfinterests of these groups -and such rivalries often have been the ground to the existence of these different groups, often split up from one, when values came to be polarized among the members on ideological and geo-/demographical reasons alike.

- indeed the individual selfvaluing is primary but groups, if they are organized, they are bodies with response patterns and value attractors and reflectors that sustain them, they selfvalue - groups carry their members in terms of these members terms - but sometimes the group can prescribe further values than the individuals can - pairs certainly are able to do this over individuals, triads can perform extra miracles, etc -

So a group selfvalues properly if it is built by geometrical necessities. Such has been rigorously attempted in the governmental structure of the US, and France as well.

 

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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:35 pm

In my perspective it is imperative for philosophy to stand above the occult groups as a common arrow for them. Without philosophy they are nothing, and this accounts for a lot of sloth and perversion, misdirection and bullshit games of destruction. As Nietzsche was for the transformation of the mind pf power early 20th century, so philosophy now is to the transformation of that mind to another stage - as philosophy plays itself out through such theories as vo, so the political world follows in its slipstream, and takes shape accordingly. It's a butterfly effect, there is only air between the wings of the philosopher and the senses of the conjurers.

Philosophy will always be fundamentally cleaner than politics. But its task is not only to reveal the unclean, but also to have the relatively cleaner parts aspire to cleanliness, to philosophy, to truth and the glory that, in such a case, accompanies and perpetuates power.

Only a philosophical politician can make a name for himself in history, and all know this. Philosophy as Apollo - that to which is aspired, the shining beacon that does not concern itself with anything except the order if its light, which incidentally also is the light of the world.

Ah, to rest on laurels - it's imperative from time to time in the life of the philosopher. After all, what, to us, is "rest"?

 

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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:27 pm

What appears to be important then is the tensions between the various primary European powers. Britain, France, Italy, and Germany being the largest players. These tensions cannot be dissolved by the mere existence of an EU, nor can the tensions be dissolved or even moderated by the situation of mass immigration into Europe. As immigrants from outside of western civilization pour into Germany and France, these nations and people are not going to become less tense, they are going to become more tense. The immigration crisis will at first cause a constriction of the historical spirit of the nations in each respective country, as "sin", which will simulate a kind of homogenization between nations that is mistaken as the decline of those historical tensions of fundamental difference between the primary European nations/peoples -- this pretend decline of tensions is what what the EU-philes assume to be the multicultural humanist bureaucratic utopia.

But then after a brief pause, perhaps a decade or so, a reversal will occur: those tensions were never truly dissipated or reduced, only contracted, as like a spring, and that spring is now under even further tension and force. The differences between each primary European power are actually magnified now, although we perhaps cannot see it so clearly just yet. If Macron represents a more true French style and type than does Le Pen (I agree that Le Pen seems almost German in her un-elegance) then indeed I would think Macron will win, and rightly so, since the concentration of the tension intra-nationally to France for example is going to appear superficially as a move toward German-ness (Merkelism for example, which image would perhaps seem to favor more of a Le Pen type) but in reality will launch outward as a move against German-ness (and any other "Otherness") as a return to French values and valuing. We should also remember the psychological impact of having your country already occupied by an invading force -- the Islamic hordes from the third world that are present in France and Germany now. I don't mean that as anything against Islam or these immigrants specifically, yet they are indeed an invading force, and must be felt as such unconsciously by the French and German people.

Due to the presence of this invading force French and German people will be a little slower to regroup and reassert the tensions. But it doesn't even matter how long it takes for that to happen, the regrouping, because the longer it takes the more harsh and violent it will be. All that is needed is a spark in France, a spark in Germany, to set the fires going in the souls of the people there. The fire of their own spirit, their self-value.

Maybe drunken Macron with his fake revolutionary image can be something of a spark, I don't know. Maybe he is just so much of a walking contradiction and false promise that the French sensibilities will be happy to turn to that rather than a more regimented Austerity-oriented German ethos. Trump at least was also the nicely drunken walking contradiction, although drunk on his own ego rather than actually intoxicated. But the important thing seems to be the showmanship of it, the peacock's tail attraction that gets all the females in heat whether in support or opposition... the entire collective machinery of culture can thereby become mobilized. The daemonic tensions can increase exponentially, as they are right now in the US. And remember that these tensions cannot be reduced-collapsed into any kind of "synthesis", rather these are truly daemonic, anti-dialectical logics at work here, as Parodites outlines the procession of thesis -> antithesis -> antithesis -> antithesis ...

So yeah, a foundation of sorts is being laid. But for what? I don't really know. Maybe a great meritocracy as you mentioned, a kind of shared globalism of nation-state oriented locality goals in concert at the higher level of supremely excellent values-creations. If this is the case then it could simply be that we spend ourselves out of banksterdebt by the sheer force of creative surplus of production of values, the literal creation of more money and the inflation by such creation that marginalizes all former debts. Again, I don't really know.

 

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"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." -Parodites

"Was it necessary for the sense of truth that Nietzsche described as developed by the Judeo-Christian tradition that then manifested itself in the scientific methodology to turn against the symbolic foundation of that structure and demolish it... Jung's answer was that the conflict between science and religion is a consequence of the immature state of both of those domains of thinking... it's just that we aren't good enough at being religious or at being scientific to see how they might be reconciled." -Jordan Peterson
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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:33 pm

But back to what I was initially saying, the tensions seem very important here, and the EU seems to exist to create the conditions whereby it can be pretended that a homogenization amongst the primary European powers has taken place. Of course such a homogenization has not and will not occur, all that has occurred is the transfer of sovereignty-power to unelected and soulless technocrats in Brussels. But by that 'magical' occurrence the whole of Europe has ostensibly been organized (neutered) for peace (sacrificial lamb on the spit)...

And precisely the vacuousness and absurdity of the EU is maybe the only reason it has lasted this long; I doubt that any real European is able to take it seriously at all... how the fuck could they do anything but laugh at it?

Yes, the tensions are still there, and daemonically governing the laying of the new foundation, as you were saying. Maybe the only purpose of the EU was to temporarily abate the tensions long enough in a fake homogeneity so that Europe can be brought to the brink of ontic dissolution only to finally release its springs again back into Being-force, crushing the EU in the process of rebirth of national valuing-power and a return to the natural love of ownership-rights. So what would such a situation and people do with that newfound energy and enthusiasm? In the old days they would make war; today they might simply start businesses and blogs, create artwork, read books and join internet philosophy forums...

 

___________
"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." -Parodites

"Was it necessary for the sense of truth that Nietzsche described as developed by the Judeo-Christian tradition that then manifested itself in the scientific methodology to turn against the symbolic foundation of that structure and demolish it... Jung's answer was that the conflict between science and religion is a consequence of the immature state of both of those domains of thinking... it's just that we aren't good enough at being religious or at being scientific to see how they might be reconciled." -Jordan Peterson
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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:01 pm

I think there are more than one very important stage here when it comes to revitalizing the national autonomy and inspiring sovereignty in the people (in the individuals, where it belongs). One stage is having borders around your nation and controlling immigration, but another stage altogether involves the soul or spirit of the nation, its values and taste. Going off of this idea, we might say that Macron could address (perhaps, I can't confirm this of course, I do not know him well enough) the latter issues of taste and spirit, while Le Pen could address the former issue of borders and physical security.

So either way, whoever wins we might say that a sort of revitalization of France is coming. That is to be expected considering the situation with Germany and the EU, the immigration crisis especially and how bad it is getting. Maybe the EU only has a historical purpose of reminding European people of the values of their own cultural lineages specifically and of the value of western civilization generally, by contrasting these so absolutely with the souldeath nonexistence represented by the EU-phile.

To revitalize each of the primary European powers, that is a good goal to aim for. France, Britain, Germany, and Italy. Maybe Spain and The Netherlands can come too. Austria and Greece not far behind. Scandinavia may have to play catch-up later.

 

___________
"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." -Parodites

"Was it necessary for the sense of truth that Nietzsche described as developed by the Judeo-Christian tradition that then manifested itself in the scientific methodology to turn against the symbolic foundation of that structure and demolish it... Jung's answer was that the conflict between science and religion is a consequence of the immature state of both of those domains of thinking... it's just that we aren't good enough at being religious or at being scientific to see how they might be reconciled." -Jordan Peterson
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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:01 pm

Le Pen is backing down... see, Trump wouldnt do that.
Without her hard anti EU stance she has very little of a program. She wants to woo moderates but for what? If not Frexit, what has she to offer?

EU means open borders.

Quote :
AN HOUR AGO by: Harriet Agnew in Paris
Marine Le Pen has attempted to broaden her mainstream appeal ahead of the French presidential election by signalling that her flagship policy of leaving the euro is no longer a priority.

The candidate for the far-right National Front, who is opposing independent centrist Emmanuel Macron in Sunday’s run-off, has alarmed investors during her campaign by saying she would seek to renegotiate France's relationship with the EU and call a referendum on a so-called “Frexit” from the bloc within six months.

But Ms Le Pen played down her anti-euro message and softened the timetable for any exit at the weekend, saying in an interview with newspaper Sud Ouest that “if everyone is agreed we could take a year or a year and a half to organise a co-ordinated return to national currencies”.


The shift in tone represents an attempt to reassure voters with euro-denominated savings and investments, which would be likely to plummet in value if France returned to the franc. The message is particularly aimed at centre-right supporters of Republican candidate François Fillon, who was eliminated from the election contest in the first round on April 23.

Ms Le Pen finished second in the first round to Mr Macron, a former economy minister who has never previously run for office but is now favourite to succeed President François Hollande in the Elysée Palace.

Market Questions
How much higher can the euro go?
Single currency will stay in focus this week ahead of the final French election round

The FN also struck an alliance with a smaller party for the first time in its 45-year history. Ms Le Pen said she would name Nicolas Dupont-Aignan, the anti-EU founder of the Debout la France party, as her prime minister if elected. Mr Dupont-Aignan, mayor of Yerres in southeastern Paris, earlier declared he would “support and campaign with Marine Le Pen for an expanded government”. He also ran for president, taking less than 5 per cent of April’s first round votes.

While Mr Dupont-Aignan shares Ms Le Pen’s desire to leave the euro and return to the franc, the pair maintained in a joint statement on Saturday that “the transition from the single currency to the European common currency is not a prerequisite for any economic policy”.

Ms Le Pen on Sunday denied that this changed her position on the euro, telling BFMTV: “I have been calling for the transformation of the single currency to the common currency for quite a long time, so there is no contradiction in that.” 

In a separate interview with the Le Parisien newspaper, Ms Le Pen reiterated her view that “the euro is dead”. She said that if she were elected France would have a national currency “like all other countries”, as well as “a common currency together”, which would not “concern daily purchases but only large companies that trade internationally”. 

A desire to leave the euro is a pillar of the FN programme but while there is strong support for it from within the party, polls suggest that some 70 per cent of French people are against it — partly because they think it will make them poorer.

Interactive
French presidential election second round polls
Emmanuel Macron, an independent pro-European centrist, will face Marine Le Pen, leader of the far-right National Front, in the May 7 run-off to become France’s next president

Pro-business think-tank Institut Montaigne estimates that leaving the euro would cost France €180bn, half a million jobs and 9 percentage points of gross domestic product over the long-term.

Marion Maréchal-Le Pen, niece of Ms Le Pen and an FN MP, echoed her aunt’s more emollient tone on Europe. Speaking after a press conference to announce the alliance with Debout la France, she said negotiations on the EU and the euro would start in 2018 and would take “several months" or even “several years”.

Some of Ms Le Pen's supporters welcomed the move to soften her position on Frexit. Robert Ménard, the mayor of the town of Béziers in the south of France who was elected with FN support, told Le Figaro: “It's very good news. It proves that she has finally understood. To win an election it's necessary to assemble and gather first in your own camp. For the Front National, that’s the right.”



 

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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:18 pm

Another thing to consider is that virtually all of Frances major colonies were Arabic. It's not an injustice that much of the country is populated by Arabs - neither as it is unjust that large parts of the Arabic world are francophone.

This means that France simply must keep imposing its values, or rather resume doing so. There is, like between India and Britain, a certain love between the colony and the master - an acceptance of and even gratitude for the gift of that great language and its connected culture. This can be restored, as it has never quite left. It is different in the Netherlands, which does not prescribe national pride to its citizens at all, and with some reason. Worse in Germany, where a national shame is prescribed. From what Ive seen in London, it works very well there, I could not discern differences in dignity between the various ethnic types that live among each other there, they seem largely simply qualitatively above average minds. That's no doubt because of the pride all take in citizenship of a global primacy.

Paris should aspire to no less. France has the actual power to elevate its citizens above the desire for religion - perhaps some steps will be made to retrieve the pride in this power, to prepare for a reinstatement of it as a true logos. Secular politics is an artform.

 

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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:29 pm

It's entirely possible that Indonesia was better off under the Dutch than it is now under a parasitic globo-capitalistic economy and a tyrannical theocratic regime. But more surely so I am glad that I have grown up with knowledge of that country and experience of its virtues, storytellers and foods.


 

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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Mon May 01, 2017 9:50 am

I admit I may be entirely wrong about Macron. Ive been wrong about politicians, humans, before. I dont think I ever underestimated any man. Here too, I risk radical overestimation.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/05/01/macron-set-calais-migrants-loose-uk/
If Macron treats the UK with overt disdain, acts with political disdain onto the Crown, I'll just lazily assume he'll be found dead soon enough. Maybe he is just a run of the mill moron. He'd definitely not be able to do what I suggested, if he's as pompously dumb as all that.

More and more I am leaning to Sauwelios' idea that things have to completely break down before dignity can be found in Europe. Ive even had to disavow half of my family, as they have turned to fascistic muck. One came onto my facebook with deathwishes, the next one joined him in support, haughtily denouncing my rejection of the death wisher. Michiel Bakker that guy is called, a vile thug that makes his money by disgracing his grandfather. He's such unbelievable scum.... He even stole the name his brother told him he wanted to give to his child, and gave it to his own, and laughed at his brother for it.... You cant make that stuff up... he's not actually aware that others exist. And in Amsterdam, that kind of shit is actually popular. People love a self loathing, family betraying nazi.

All kinds of completely absurd subhumanism are however prevalent in Europe, humans there dont know their hearts. Nearly every single person Ive met in Montreal, beggars and bankers included, has a fundamental health in his eyes that Ive rarely seen in Europe. An absence of the pressure of despair, of political slavery. To simply be human. Its not even suspected as an option there.

Great misfortunes may be at Europes doorstep.

 

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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Mon May 01, 2017 10:26 am

Someone in the comment section of that Breitbart article said it really well.

DaKardii wrote:
Europe is screwed. Absolutely screwed. There are six countries that can be considered regional powers in that continent, and all six of them are a mess right now.

We have Russia, which is ruled by a thug who is arming the Islamonazi regime in Iran and half the time looks like he's taking advice from the pro-Nazi, occultist Eurasianist cabal.

We have Germany, which is ruled by a mentally unstable Hillary Clinton wannabe who is trying to turn the European Union into a German-dominated federation (aka, a Fourth Reich) before it falls apart.

We have the UK, which is ruled by a slimy politician who is playing both sides of the ongoing crisis.

We have France, which is ruled by an Obama wannabe who is doing almost nothing in the face of multiple terrorist attacks. Meanwhile, an election is coming up, and the only choices are the daughter of a Nazi sympathizer who wants to ban religious symbols of any kind from being worn in public in order to "fight extremism," and an Erdogan wannabe who is now threatening to use migrants as a geopolitical weapon.

We have Turkey, which is rapidly descending into a neo-fascist dictatorship thanks to its Islamist president (who is arming al-Qaeda and ISIS, by the way).

And we have Italy, which is being totally overrun with migrants thanks to its pro-open borders government.

Hail THOR

 

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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Mon May 01, 2017 2:15 pm

Yeah ok. Now we get the vile thugs violently "protesting" against Le Pen in Paris, Marseille and elsewhere.

So we can see, Soros hired scum or just people with <60 IQs that are resentful of their existence, and find in retardation and looting the only means to forget their self-suffering.

Ill introduce a term to complement self-valuing: self-suffering.
This is always present, and it must always be of a lower degree than the selfvaluing.
We could call it "Agon" if we are generous.

In mob-particles, those humanoids that don't have structural integrity, the self-suffering is far greater than the selfvaluing, thus they need to hide their own existence, nature, from themselves, and to join mobs is the easiest way of doing that.

 

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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Mon May 01, 2017 3:31 pm

So T, despite the philosophical vistas we acquired, I must concede to you that Mackerel is just another Merkel....

And yet Le Pen is backing down from the Frexit priority - so we may actually retain a chance of a Parisian leadership of a Nationalistically United Europe.

It's that or the hordes versus the tribes.

 

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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Tue May 02, 2017 8:24 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
Yeah ok. Now we get the vile thugs violently "protesting" against Le Pen in Paris, Marseille and elsewhere.

So we can see, Soros hired scum or just people with <60 IQs that are resentful of their existence, and find in retardation and looting the only means to forget their self-suffering.

Hahaha. Yes precisely.

Quote :
Ill introduce a term to complement self-valuing: self-suffering.
This is always present, and it must always be of a lower degree than the selfvaluing.
We could call it "Agon" if we are generous.

In mob-particles, those humanoids that don't have structural integrity, the self-suffering is far greater than the selfvaluing, thus they need to hide their own existence, nature, from themselves, and to join mobs is the easiest way of doing that.

Right. Makes me think of what Peterson said with regard to these idiot leftists, that any individual one of them will only represent maybe 5% of the total ideological non-entity-ness of Marxist-postmodernism, so not really a big deal. They are too stupid to ever understand even close to the full scope of their own 'philosophical' position; but when you get 20 of them in a group, suddenly they manifest that full position. They become a living embodiment of souldeath, maximum selfsuffering.

 

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"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." -Parodites

"Was it necessary for the sense of truth that Nietzsche described as developed by the Judeo-Christian tradition that then manifested itself in the scientific methodology to turn against the symbolic foundation of that structure and demolish it... Jung's answer was that the conflict between science and religion is a consequence of the immature state of both of those domains of thinking... it's just that we aren't good enough at being religious or at being scientific to see how they might be reconciled." -Jordan Peterson
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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Tue May 02, 2017 8:26 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
So T, despite the philosophical vistas we acquired, I must concede to you that Mackerel is just another Merkel....

And yet Le Pen is backing down from the Frexit priority - so we may actually retain a chance of a Parisian leadership of a Nationalistically United Europe.

It's that or the hordes versus the tribes.

We should start referring to Europe as "occupied Europe". Gets the point across rather clearly.

I mean, really Europe is occupied now by a foreign invading force. A standing army, if you will, that everyone wants to pretend isn't actually an army, but just wants to hang out and work together in factories and drink lattes or something.

I can imagine the psychological impact of knowing that one's country or home is occupied like this by a foreign force. Especially when you aren't even allowed to say that in public or admit it except in very private, secret whispers between like-minded friends.

What a fucking joke. Unbelievable that it has gotten to this point. Europeans will either revolt and throw this curse of EU and mass immigration off like it ain't no thang, or else Europe will simply vanish from existence... the EU will become the IEU, Islamic-European Union. That could happen in less than a decade, or even in just a couple short years once the critical threshold of numbers of non-integrating but voting immigrants is high enough. Terrifying to think about.

 

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"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." -Parodites

"Was it necessary for the sense of truth that Nietzsche described as developed by the Judeo-Christian tradition that then manifested itself in the scientific methodology to turn against the symbolic foundation of that structure and demolish it... Jung's answer was that the conflict between science and religion is a consequence of the immature state of both of those domains of thinking... it's just that we aren't good enough at being religious or at being scientific to see how they might be reconciled." -Jordan Peterson
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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Tue May 02, 2017 10:43 am

It's really weird, yeah... yes I used to be haunted and quite worried regarding my fate and that of the few people in my family that aren't Marxists and turn to psycho-zombies whenever a difficult topic is raised, those few that are still able to suffer truth, and thus are insufferable to the Good Europeans.
Because thats the thing that is most sickening to me - that the 'indigenous' Europeans are so scummy. I can handle a few million believers that are honest about their beliefs and fight for them. Thats normal to me, I'll even be okay losing to them in a fair battle. But the indigenous ones, these are the fascists. After all it is they that silenced me, and so many others.

No muslim has ever personally told me to shut my mouth with my blasphemous thoughts. Not that I think this is from love of the intellect or some shit like that, it's just that theyre secure in their values.

The "whites", these contain the true trash. White well to do social democrats.
I cant even.
One cant even.
1984 cant even be used to wipe your ass after you think about them.
The horribleness of it is their weakness.
It's a marvel. You can present them with any fact, or any emotion, any theory - if it has an intensity to it that goes beyond Drake's emotional repertoire, they will sit there staring with literally bulging eyes. Ive seen it man. Time and time again, they have turned to eerie cartoon forms. Now of course I come from a Communist clan, so that accounts for much of the insanity close to me - it took a philosophical mind to at once respect my grandfather, and be able to condemn, mock and forgive his foolish youthful belief in Stalins goodness and all that, it is forgivable because Stalin was his ally against Hitler, and he actually fought the nazi scum.

But none of his offspring save me was able to do cognitive justice to the mans path. All of them contented themselves with being confused, alienated, not really taking him for human anymore, and so they let him die in a second rate, disgusting, shadowy nursing home. My mother protested, she is a deeply honorable woman. But all the other family wanted him gone from his wifes house so she could have some peace... and he could just die already. Thats how they talked about him. Thats what Communism does. It dehumanizes, it takes the heart out of people. Ive never heard such shocking things as what my aunts said about my grandfather.

Its a confused story, as it is the offspring, that are actually pure consumerists, that have lost their humanity. But the cause of this can be seen in the double standards that any kind of Marx-inspired religion causes.

You were saying it well elsewhere, the lack of existential effort that is being made - it has forced them to make out of the fundamental ethical uncertainty in their hearts a world, a life, without ethics. Without any standards whatsoever, except what happens to be the 'norm'.

I think my family represents a kind of extremity, an ultimate consequence, of what is sick about Europe. Most Europeans are less sick than some of my cousins, but the general political plague that haunts the continent can be perfectly understood if one draws the consequences from my family morals. Basically it is this, and I am not exaggerating, I promise: as soon as a non facile question of value is brought up, the messenger must be silenced at all cost. Of course ridicule is the first means, Ive often had everyone around the dinner table laugh at and scorn some modest remarks I made about alternative views to the newspapers - but eventually it turns to sicker things like direct excommunication, spreading lies to my mother about me being violent to my sister, and recently the whole deathwishes on facebook congregation they formed, where they convinced themselves that I was to blame for not even supporting these deathwishes.

Ive never seen sicker and insaner people than these cousins of mine.

Basically, most people in Northern Europe may very well deserve, as in merit Islamic subjection - it may actually teach them some values! Islam is higher, apparently, than Communism and Socialism - it requires more discipline, more humanity, more of a heart.

So what now.... I honestly dont know. It is all so depraved that it's really hard to imagine some sort of non-mucky outcome of the present terms.

The bottom line here however is not a hopelessness, but rather the certainty that, down the line, very interesting tensions are going to surface there - as when the 'educated classes' have been entirely absorbed into that death they cultivate, the simper ones will have grown so utterly detached from these classes and their government and religious owners, that they will have the opportunity to grow attached to Earth and Life. At which point, different types and classes of leadership can be conceived.

Soul death is a temporary strategy. Earth simply produces soul from death.



"Patience love. The night is loyal."

 

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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Tue May 02, 2017 11:20 am

Earth produces soul from death... yes I agree, quite true. Euro-American communist latte anti-culture will probably just implode into a new Hitlerian nightmare, I assure you that half of them in the US would have been happy to follow Obozo or Shillery into a new Third Reich, so long as the pro and anti imagery was crafted sufficiently and presented with a warm smile; cartoons, yes.

The Right isn't willing to follow Trump like that. Look at all the criticism Trump is getting from his base now, for dragging his feet on a couple of issues he campaigned on. Whereas the Left never criticized Ibozo even once in eight years. Hell they didn't criticize Shill after she lied, traded secrets, deleted emails, laughed maniacally, and then lost the election she was basically handed on a silver platter and was such a pure bitch that she didn't even appear to her supporters on election night after they waited for hours for her. Half of the Left in the US loves her even more now, because in addition to being Female Jesus she is also a Poor Victim of Patriarchy now, whereas the other half don't like her that much but would never ever say that aloud, not even to themselves.

 

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"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." -Parodites

"Was it necessary for the sense of truth that Nietzsche described as developed by the Judeo-Christian tradition that then manifested itself in the scientific methodology to turn against the symbolic foundation of that structure and demolish it... Jung's answer was that the conflict between science and religion is a consequence of the immature state of both of those domains of thinking... it's just that we aren't good enough at being religious or at being scientific to see how they might be reconciled." -Jordan Peterson
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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Tue May 02, 2017 11:46 am

Yes, strikingly true about the Right and Trump.
And whats great is that it seems Trump has actually listened to his critics on some issues. When did that ever happen?

I disagreed with his critics on some issues but that is far less important than that there exists an actual discourse of power and value in a state.

Trump seems to be doing well.

 

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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Tue May 02, 2017 5:54 pm


 

___________
"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." -Parodites

"Was it necessary for the sense of truth that Nietzsche described as developed by the Judeo-Christian tradition that then manifested itself in the scientific methodology to turn against the symbolic foundation of that structure and demolish it... Jung's answer was that the conflict between science and religion is a consequence of the immature state of both of those domains of thinking... it's just that we aren't good enough at being religious or at being scientific to see how they might be reconciled." -Jordan Peterson
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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Wed May 03, 2017 10:45 am

Holy cow, that's weird.
Then, the French are defined by mass violence, the Revolution is still the most wanton orgy of political violence inside of a European country, and they're proud of it.
It is every year, I think, that the ghettos erupt and set hundreds of cars on fire.
The first of may is the Communist 'holiday'... not entirely surprising all this, considering the historical madness.


But whatever.

Whoever wins the elections, Europe is laying herself down to be gangraped like a stupid teen porn debutante.

 

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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Wed May 03, 2017 6:36 pm


Sad, you know. Back in the 1960s and 1970s France was a wonderful place to visit and I visited many times and always had wonderful experiences.

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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Wed May 03, 2017 6:39 pm

I strongly regret that I didn't visit Paris 7 years ago, when I probably could have made it work.

 

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"We must, now armed with such a language, realize the “transcendental unity of ideas,” through a new morality that aims, not to hypostasize experience and grasp in positive knowledge a series of particular virtues and vices, but rather to fully explicate this continuity; where philosophy exists to represent this transcendental order, morality most exist to mediate the two spheres, the spheres of experience and ideality." -Parodites

"Was it necessary for the sense of truth that Nietzsche described as developed by the Judeo-Christian tradition that then manifested itself in the scientific methodology to turn against the symbolic foundation of that structure and demolish it... Jung's answer was that the conflict between science and religion is a consequence of the immature state of both of those domains of thinking... it's just that we aren't good enough at being religious or at being scientific to see how they might be reconciled." -Jordan Peterson
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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Wed May 03, 2017 6:42 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:
I strongly regret that I didn't visit Paris 7 years ago, when I probably could have made it work.

Yeah, I think it was still somewhat sane back then. I can't even imagine what the future of France will look like in the future.
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PostSubject: Re: French Elections   Wed May 03, 2017 10:03 pm

I disagree that this entirely changes Paris.
Look at its history. It's the most insanely mob-violent city at the least of the West, if not of the whole world.
This is pretty fitting. Im perfectly honest when I say Id enjoy my espresso on the corner with the chaos as a spectacle. The value-war starts in Paris.
This is one of those situations where it has to get worse before it gets better. Paris has suffered several of such situation, and somewhat gladly, it seems. Everything for a bit of romance... sigh.

 

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