French Elections

Very pertinent distinction, passion vs drama.
Ill have my mind go over that for a while.

Fixed Cross wrote:

Very pertinent distinction, passion vs drama.
Ill have my mind go over that for a while.

I apologize for causing you to think.

Terrible abuse, ill forgive you this once.

Fixed Cross wrote:

Terrible abuse, ill forgive you this once.

Thank you so very much.

I'm still trying to figure out how a pro-EU bureaucratic, third world mass immigrant importing, privileged banker globalist elitist is a better choice for France than a "France first" anti-third world mass immigrant importing, Euroskeptic anti-globalism pro-French economic growth and anti-corporate welfare anti-deregulation candidate.

Marion Le Pen, Marines niece, is leaving politics for business life now to return to ot with some experience. She is what Marine is not - A true French French conservative and practicing Catholic.

Ive studied her a bit the past decade and I think she can win the presidency, say in 8 years.

I dont share the method of valuing people in terms of who like or dont like them - I didnt do that in high school and Im not starting now.
What I do is take my time to listen to the candidates speeches and make up my mind based on their words.

Ugglery is just very stupid and has no idea what she's saying. Her words will never be an indicator of anything politically relevant, never were, except that she was going to lose the elections.

Im not really about to take this miscreant as a standard for my own judgment.
I simply listened to all the stuff Macron and Le Pen said and formed my judgment based on that.

I never read secondary literature on philosophy either.

Besides, all the enemies of Macron on Breitbart and such seem to really hate Arabs, calling them "sandniggers" - I'd rather have a Europe full of Arabs than of people who call Arabs "sandniggers", thats not a tough one for me. Such racists are worth less to me than any given insect.

Fixed Cross wrote:

Besides, all the enemies of Macron on Breitbart and such seem to really hate Arabs, calling them "sandniggers" - I'd rather have a Europe full of Arabs than of people who call Arabs "sandniggers", thats not a tough one for me. Such racists are worth less to me than any given insect.

I don't understand -- so you aren't willing to use what Obama, Hillary Clinton, Merkel, etc. have said in favor of Macron as a mark against him (since you don't particularly like Obama, Hillary and Merkel) but you are willing to use some comments on Breitbart, ostensibly from pro-Le Pen people, as a mark against Le Pen?

Has Le Pen ever called an Arab a "sand nigger"?

I guess thats sort of fair in the context -even though I brought it up as an aside to stand in contrast to what you brought up.

But in all seriousness, Ive really given extensive and philosophical explanations of the prospects I see under Macron - Im certainly and clearly not basing my opinion of him on his enemies or other secondaries.
Ive studied the guy with great interest obviously, as he's the significant unknown now.

Which all can be summarized as follows: If France can fairly play and challenge Germany from within the EU, this will actually begin to justify the EU.

Value war as you once called it is what I foresee as possible under Macron.

I totally get and accept that/if you do not see this, but I do.
Ive been wrong about Brexit, and its implications. I like that it happened a lot - but I thought it was the beginning of a wedge in the EU.
Then I began to see the simple logic: England is an island, with a separate currency - it's fucking great for the EU that they left, and lost all their Euro-trading privileges, which run to amounts of a trillion a day.

So this is why an ex Rothschild banker who is demonstrably French and Francophile could be just the ticket to arrange for my earlier idea that Paris must become the capital of the EU. I would even move back to Europe if that happened. I dont care what itd be like there, the honor of living in a continent that valued itself so wisely on such a capital issue would render me ecstatic.

I'm sure that I haven't studied him as much as you have, or Le Pen either. But based on what I know and the important issues going on in Europe right now i can't make a case for Macron over Le Pen. But if indeed the French People did really vote for him (if all the voter fraud and media mindgames ultimately didn't sway the people and results enough and the majority who voted really did want Macron) then that's fine, they will get what they deserve, good and bad.

Democracy is just for making sure whoever leads is a representative of the most people. That's really the only value I see in democratic voting. I certainly don't expect voting to produce the best candidate, just the one who most reflects the way people in that society think and value, which is really what matters, again for good or bad.

Sure, but Macron is already cozying up to Merkel, and he came out for his victory speech to the European anthem, not the French anthem. So I have my doubts.

Also and I hate to bring this up, but since you did I'll just say that the Rothschilds are German, at least as far as I know.

Thrasymachus wrote:

I'm sure that I haven't studied him as much as you have, or Le Pen either. But based on what I know and the important issues going on in Europe right now i can't make a case for Macron over Le Pen. But if indeed the French People did really vote for him (if all the voter fraud and media mindgames ultimately didn't sway the people and results enough and the majority who voted really did want Macron) then that's fine, they will get what they deserve, good and bad.

Democracy is just for making sure whoever leads is a representative of the most people. That's really the only value I see in democratic voting. I certainly don't expect voting to produce the best candidate, just the one who most reflects the way people in that society think and value, which is really what matters, again for good or bad.

It's also a question of the quality of humans that happen to be available for elections. With Gore and Bush the US had a truly shitty deal.
Macron just happens to be someone I suspect of extreme cleverness, as well as a profound identification with La France -
even his choice of wife alone tells me this. He's no playboy, no superficial boon. He has great love for the principle of the Lady.

And all this is just luck. He's just got some human qualities and some French one, that not any of his 3 predecessors that Ive known had. Only Miterrand had something magnetically French-optimist about him, but Chirac, Sarkozy and Hollande are all people Id avoid talking to, (well, Sarko on wine is quite funny)  but Macron is someome I'd like to have a conversation with.

So here are two ideas that I hold that are contentious:
- Macron is capable of delivering for the French people
- Macron is desiring to deliver for the French people.

We'll have to wait and see, really. Im not claiming certainty by any stretch. I just appreciate Macron much more than I do Merkel, Obama, Hollande, or Rutte, or Erdogan - there's something to him. And there was something almost noble to his speech.

Yes, his entire strength is that he is an eurocrat. We will have to see if he can play it smart for the benefit of the French.
Germany needs to be a close friend if France is going to be able to challenge it in economic terms.

Quote :

Also and I hate to bring this up, but since you did I'll just say that the Rothschilds are German, at least as far as I know.

So is Trump.
But really the Rothschilds belong to the nation of Israel. They worked relentlessly to create the state, and now they are deeply involved in running it.



Rothschild Boulevard, Tel Aviv

I may do well to explain that I see nothing of this in terms of discrete positive values except that potential of having Paris as Capital.
That would namely mark the beginning of a paradigm where European values can be discovered, retrieved, etc.

At this point, and since quite a while now, Ive seen no value at all in contemporary European culture, meaning in the spirit of its populations.
So I look at this from a very bleak perspective. To me there is no Europe to save, hasnt been there for a decade. So I see Macron not as a savior or great joy, but as someone who could deprive France of its absolute weakness relative to Germany, which has been the major sickness of the EU - a superior nation suffering the laws of an inferior one.

"One law for lion and ox is oppression" - Blake
Obviously France is Lion where Germany is Ox. Without Frances leadership, the EU is a slavecamp.

And also be very aware that I write this to make that happen. I dont write any of this reflectively. I do not think that if I do not write it, it will happen. That is to say, I do certainly not see Macron as enough to make this happen. He may possibly be used by fate as a setup to some Ascending. But it is philosophers who represent fate.

I see philosophy, the meaning of my work, as occurring at the core of world-events. I care not for causality here, just for logos. The philosophers mind is a furnace rooted in the ethics I described as eternity itself, and politics is its circumference.

So having said all this, I can definitely confirm the eeriness of the euro anthem there and especially of the belgian and german flaglets being waved around.
But then Macron began to speak, and I didnt feel the usual deflated spirit, but something almost foolish in its will to heroism.
Im saying it can turn into something. Not that it will without our help, or even to guarantee that with it, it will -
I just have a feeling.

If France is decidedly socialist, which seems accurate, that's no reason to reject Le Pen since she is on the left and wanted to strengthen the state and protect French social systems such as the welfare state. In contrast, Macron is a deregulationist who wants to reduce the size of the state and favors corporate interests.

Now look at this, results from the first election:




And now the results of the runoff second election:




Yeah... does that second one look like the results of a real election, especially in light of the results of the first election?

No fucking way. Macron was illegally given the election by tampering and cheating. Obviously.

And they're so fucking stupid they don't even know how to hack an election and make the results look legitimate. Lol. What utter pieces of garbage.

The French electoral system works differently from most countries. The two rounds arent similar.
first election round had a larger number of candidates, four of them were close to each other.
The second round had two. That accounts for a different type of distribution.

Le Pen is a piece of shit. The French are too good to vote for her.

Despite some cool people voting for her, mind you. I dont look down on her supporters, Im just understanding of the French.