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 Wanting/valuing types

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PostSubject: Wanting/valuing types    Wanting/valuing types  Icon_minitimeSat Sep 23, 2017 11:55 am

There are two types or modes of wanting: 1) to want, and 2) to want to want. Men generally embody the former type, women generally embody the latter type. The first type is direct wanting, as in "I want/value X, therefore I will seek to obtain X". The second type is indirect wanting, as in "I want you to want X, therefore I will seek to get you to value X".  

Women (the second type, although the types aren't fixed to either gender but are more like a spectrum on which men and women tend toward one side or the other) usually act to get others to value/want something that is also desirable to the woman herself, they are more focused on other people and trying to figure out their value-structures so as to predict and control or at least manage them. I think this evolved due to women needing to secure a man for making children and protecting those children as they grow up, likewise the woman needs to secure a society or tribe to help her in child-rearing. The woman is physically and logically inferior to the man in a biological-psychological sense (men are physically stronger as well as mentally more logical-objective, as a general rule), therefore she was forced toward the second type of wanting/valuing out of necessity.

Men (the first type) usually act to get values directly. This type doesn't really care what other people want, and rightly so, unless what the other person wants conflicts with what the man himself wants. Men can form alliances on the basis of shared direct wants, and this is the basis of the male dimension of society. Likewise men will oppose one another and go to war over conflicting values/wants. I think this is also evolutionary, since men needed to deal with reality directly: build shelter, fire, hunt for food, fight off predators, and fight off other tribes/societies.

I think the direct type of valuing/wanting represents the strong form, and the indirect type represents the weak form. It is objectively better to go directly for your values and ignore or be indifferent to what other people want/value so long as those other people are not obstacles to your own values/wants. Caring about what others want de-powers your own valuing. This is probably why there is still no truly female philosophy.

 

___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”.  -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Wanting/valuing types    Wanting/valuing types  Icon_minitimeSat Sep 23, 2017 12:04 pm

Another problem with the second type of "wanting to want" is that while it starts out as wanting another person to want X, the model ends up being internalized upon oneself, so that oneself starts to want to want X; "I do not want X, rather I want to want X". This seems absurd, and it is absurd, but it is how many people go about their valuing activities. They do not allow themselves the clarity and simplicity of wanting X, they feel "ashamed" or "unworthy" or somehow cut themselves down from their own values and wants, separate themselves from them and play this complex psychological (ressentimental slavish morality) game with themselves and with other people whereby they are always trying to obtain X through indirect means. Never can they simply do or say for X, they must "negotiate the situation" within themselves and with others around them to have X come about "naturally" as if they themselves were not the cause of X and did not want X but are now at least somewhat glad that X is the case.

I find this second type disgusting and offensive. I used to practice some of this second type, since it is more or less what I was raised with and the sort of society I have been around most of my life. But it is really ignoble. Men especially, and philosophers especially, should refrain from partaking in this second type and stick to the first type only. Ironically this will cause women and others who are second-typers to actually respond better not only for your own sake of obtaining X but also for their own sake as well. Direct valuing leads to healthier valuing all around.

 

___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”.  -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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individualized
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PostSubject: Re: Wanting/valuing types    Wanting/valuing types  Icon_minitimeSun Sep 24, 2017 6:35 am

A prime example of a place that has lost its ability to self-valuing as direct wanting: India. Although I am not sure to what extent India ever had this ability in the first place.

 

___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”.  -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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