is there a stock market bubble

or is it perhaps the case that through clear manipulation of scarcities so as to produce the mirages of increasing wealth, the actual abundance of the world is being unlocked?

Because money is a primitive means. Stock markets are on the one hand a means to use for primitive aims and yet the means are so sophisticated and psychologically real that their wielder can't completely become primitive, so on the other hand they are a program for man by which nature includes more of herself in him - he becomes a predator in his own right, realm which is the metaphysical acquisition of power as a conductor to an increased physical sense of will to power, which leads to the Moon and beyond.

"We must not reach Neptune because the diamond markets will collapse and picture perfect is no more." - Sanity's older brother, Marcus

The stock market was invented by the Dutch traders-robbers in part to share the risks of sea-travel, in part to account for the increased wealth of the nation which would have been in magnitudes of a hundred or a thousand fold. The stock-market was a way to break up the tremendous wealth of the plunder and spoils of a far larger and far richer land into pieces to be shared along and across the infrastructures of wealth in the nation and grease and oil this machinery and grow and cultivate its rumbling to a genre purring of a powerful machine. By selling shares to the futures of the East Indies Company furthermore, the risks of such idiocies as travel across the seven seas could be shared. It was a sharing of risk and reward. And with this engine being built, the world whetted its appetites for a time of new predation, a form of metaphysical lust that translates into dominion over a larger scale of orders, a more abstract dominion, an increase in self-value in the coldest sense, acquisition, usurping nature. The planet became a victim, a prey. We are now to invent economies to reverse this particular trend, of the Earth as prey - she is on the precipice of becoming our biggest investor - next to the Sun, oh and now I hear Jupiter calling. Investors come knocking Initial Earth Offering -IEO- was at the inception of the Saturn calendar.

We should invent a new market that is only for investing and trading in the area of space exploration and related tech. Companies can set goals like "build an advanced meta-materials manufacturing plant on the moon" or "settle 100 colonists on Mars", or "set up a mining operation near the asteroid belt", things like that. Then we can stop raping the earth and start raping the solar system, which is really what needs to happen.

As for markets in general I think they do create and discover new wealth, but they also wipe that wealth out of existence once those markets crash. So the logical thing to do would be to set up means of transferring discovered/created wealth out of markets or rather to the fringes of the markets, where they can still loop back into derivative investments but as soon as a market crash occurs they can quickly get out of the way and leave the markets for more certain things. So the "crash" actually needs to increase in size, in its aspects of space and time, be spread out to maybe a few days and move more slowly through the entire marketplace.

Haha-- wow, and now I see that this is exactly what has been occurring. We now see market crashes occurring in slow motion, very spread out and diffuse, everyone sort of knows it is happening but of course most "normal" people ignore it because they do not want to believe they are in a crash scenario; while the smart investors understand this means to move their wealth to fringes, where this wealth can still activate back into the markets for the time being but also be pulled out in an instant.

I am sure most of these large investors and funds have computer AI systems set up that automatically move money out of markets in fractions of a second, if certain parameters are met.

Ok and this also helps to explain the sharp rise of the price of gold and also of bitcoin. Gold and bitcoin are partially fringe elements of markets, but are also more importantly external to the markets as they technically constitute their own independent marketplaces.

As this slow market collapse we are currently in continues, more and more wealth is migrating to the fringes, and moving into things like gold and bitcoin, thus propping up these external markets more and more. Yes, this is perfect --- a dual market system where the primary market feeds secondary markets, so you have a situation like a bubble of air underwater, when one end is squeezed smaller the other end balloons larger. Then eventually it goes back in the other direction, back and forth, like a pendulum.

Now that the NYSE is by no means the only important stock market on the planet, things will be better once this market crashes more properly as of course it is going to do at some point. Alternate markets will get hit, but some external markets like gold and bitcoin will increase even more. There will be weird eddies and feedback loops of course, since in a sense when markets turn downward even the external smaller markets also experience deflations, but ultimately the dual pendulum situation is set up so that wealth (money, abstract value-made) can cycle from one end to the other, in and out, as needed.

Supposedly the US and EU markets are closely linked, as well as the Japanese markets and even the Chinese too. Thus if one fails then, supposedly, the others will fail too. That is a naive assessment but there is some truth to it. Ultimately we would need to build a large model of all relevant primary and secondary markets, also including truly external markets such as gold and bitcoin, and then we could see how each one affects the others.

IEO, yes this is needed. The earth has been investing in its own rape for too long, let the larger solar system start doing that, I am sure it is eager to participate, since this would be for it a quite nice novelty. Then the earth can relax and become a full partner of humanity, as it ought to be.

Start extracting moon rock and delivering it to earth, so we can stop destroying the Amazon. Or something like that.

Thrasymachus wrote:

We should invent a new market that is only for investing and trading in the area of space exploration and related tech. Companies can set goals like "build an advanced meta-materials manufacturing plant on the moon" or "settle 100 colonists on Mars", or "set up a mining operation near the asteroid belt", things like that. Then we can stop raping the earth and start raping the solar system, which is really what needs to happen.

A very good idea.
I want to set this up. Ill need to build some funds and infrastructure. But this is a really great plan.

Quote :

As for markets in general I think they do create and discover new wealth, but they also wipe that wealth out of existence once those markets crash. So the logical thing to do would be to set up means of transferring discovered/created wealth out of markets or rather to the fringes of the markets, where they can still loop back into derivative investments but as soon as a market crash occurs they can quickly get out of the way and leave the markets for more certain things. So the "crash" actually needs to increase in size, in its aspects of space and time, be spread out to maybe a few days and move more slowly through the entire marketplace.

Haha-- wow, and now I see that this is exactly what has been occurring. We now see market crashes occurring in slow motion, very spread out and diffuse, everyone sort of knows it is happening but of course most "normal" people ignore it because they do not want to believe they are in a crash scenario; while the smart investors understand this means to move their wealth to fringes, where this wealth can still activate back into the markets for the time being but also be pulled out in an instant.

Nice insights. It could be good to draw some of this schematically.

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I am sure most of these large investors and funds have computer AI systems set up that automatically move money out of markets in fractions of a second, if certain parameters are met.

Yes, for the past 5 or so years I think about 40-60 percent of big trading firms revenue came out of trading algorithms. But apparently due to the extreme costs and the dulling curve of yields from that costs, AI is now taking the back seat again in a lot of places and people move back to manual trading. Still, at the very top, this nano-banking is definitely still the rule.

Thrasymachus wrote:

Now that the NYSE is by no means the only important stock market on the planet, things will be better once this market crashes more properly as of course it is going to do at some point. Alternate markets will get hit, but some external markets like gold and bitcoin will increase even more. There will be weird eddies and feedback loops of course, since in a sense when markets turn downward even the external smaller markets also experience deflations, but ultimately the dual pendulum situation is set up so that wealth (money, abstract value-made) can cycle from one end to the other, in and out, as needed.

Supposedly the US and EU markets are closely linked, as well as the Japanese markets and even the Chinese too. Thus if one fails then, supposedly, the others will fail too. That is a naive assessment but there is some truth to it. Ultimately we would need to build a large model of all relevant primary and secondary markets, also including truly external markets such as gold and bitcoin, and then we could see how each one affects the others.

When bitcoin was behaving like a maniac before Saturn entered Capricorn (accompanied with a set of events that completely arrested all volatility) I noticed a distinct discrepancy between the Euro and Dollar bitcoin markets. To make a long story short, the dollar is seen as a good alternative to bitcoin as it went down, where the Euro was not. Rather, when Europeans sold their bitcoin, they preferred to invest in Litecoin, where Americans just went back to the Dollar.

More and more the Euro market is separating itself from the US market, in more than one way. Take for example Germany's legislature that will banish all combustion engines within two decades. That is pure market-destruction. To begin with, it is well known that there are no alternative energy sources; all solar panels, batteries and windmills are produced at very high environmental costs and strictly using energy gained form burning stuff, so it is entirely artificial and in no way connected to supply and demand.

Thats just one example of how Europe is dissociating from reality, and thus disconnecting from US and Asian markets. But the production capacity of Europe is enormous, as is its standing wealth, so it will be a long time before it is really noticeable in "real life" for people to the extent that they connect the dots. I don't know what could possibly be the aim of these authorities, and I really am not sure that I want to know. It is obscene.

Quote :

IEO, yes this is needed. The earth has been investing in its own rape for too long, let the larger solar system start doing that, I am sure it is eager to participate, since this would be for it a quite nice novelty. Then the earth can relax and become a full partner of humanity, as it ought to be.

Nice.

Thrasymachus wrote:

Start extracting moon rock and delivering it to earth, so we can stop destroying the Amazon. Or something like that.

Most of the amazon is destroyed for soy beans, and these are mostly cultivated to feed livestock... if we want to preserve the Amazon or whats left of it, we would have to raise beef-prices, especially in fast food.

Fixed Cross wrote:

Thrasymachus wrote:

Start extracting moon rock and delivering it to earth, so we can stop destroying the Amazon. Or something like that.

Most of the amazon is destroyed for soy beans, and these are mostly cultivated to feed livestock... if we want to preserve the Amazon or whats left of it, we would have to raise beef-prices, especially in fast food.

Yes, but I think only the Brazilians can stop the rape of the Amazon. They need to use the power of Law to do this, they need to simply draw a line and say "no more, we will absolutely not cut down one more acre of the Amazon for these soy bean plots, period", and when someone throws a trillion dollars at them to cut down more acres to set up more soybeans, the Brazilians will simply say "fuck you". I mean it... only their absolute will and self-value to hold in their massive country this absolutely precious resource, only this pride could change things. Because the demand for meat will never go away, and even if prices rise that will only create more potential profit margins for expanding soy bean plots.

I am quite pissed off that the Amazon is being ass-raped like it is. Same with other natural wonders and necessities. But it is simply part of larger natural process and necessity, so we need only to locate and push an alternate need and natural process to curb it. Because I for one am never going to stop eating meat.

Brazil has a noble destiny. Either that or they will go down in history as the country that fucked humanity forever. And it is easy to forget that Brazil is nearly the size of the entire United States, in sheer landmass.

I also love the idea of a transnational highway from London to Moscow to New York, through Alaska. Fuck. What a beautiful notion.