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Fixed Cross
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 14, 2018 6:35 pm

Amasopher wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
See, this is why you should be quoting me. I am much more coherent and concise.

Wow. Just wow.

This speaks such palpable absence of respect, of even the inking that you could have respect, after our last conversation, that I am done with you.

Fuck off, please.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 14, 2018 6:49 pm

And good riddance!



AH.

Praise Odin.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 14, 2018 6:53 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:
Sauw, you’re not seriously suggesting that Heidegger was a better philosopher than Fixed is?

By what abductive reasoning did you arrive at that idea?

Interestingly, this morning (late night for me), after pointing out Fixed's sloppy reading, I finished reading an "academic" essay which says:

"Strauss gave many indications to the effect that he regarded Heidegger as the greatest thinker, or even 'the only great thinker', of our time; but he gave indication also, at least occasionally, of a doubt as to whether Heidegger is properly called a philosopher. The reason would seem to be that, as he put it in a lecture toward the end of his life, 'Heidegger seems to have succeeded in getting rid of phusis without having left open a back door to a Thing-in-itself and without being in need of a philosophy of nature (Hegel)'. As should go without saying, this same reason establishes not the irrelevance of Heidegger‘s thought to reflection on the meaning and possibility of philosophy, but the contrary[.]" (Christopher Bruell, "The Question of Nature and the Thought of Leo Strauss".)

If we follow this suggestion, I can certainly say Heidegger was not a "better" philosopher than Fixed is, as he wasn't a philosopher at all. Fixed certainly seems to be a philosopher in that sense, because of the emphasis he has repeatedly laid on necessity/causality (as have you):

"[W]hat is meant by nature, properly understood, is nothing other than necessity, or 'the realm of necessity' in its primacy: Strauss refers in Natural Right and History to 'knowledge of "natures", that is to say, of unchangeable and knowable necessity'. Nature, then, is not merely philosophy‘s most proper subject matter. As we had to some extent foreseen, nature is also its fundamental presupposition, a presupposition that has come to appear to be radically questionable.
[... I]t seemed to [Strauss] that at the bottom of the whole affair lay 'the problem of causality' and that Heidegger himself had at least pointed in this direction. [...]
By way of elaboration of what he meant by the 'problem of causality', Strauss had referred, in the letter to Klein, to Kant and 'the unsolved Humean problem'. [...] The principle of causality had become the problem that it had for the moderns [i.e., the highest, the most difficult problem] as a result of the challenge to it, unprecedented in its clarity and consistency, posed by the biblical doctrine of creation." (ibid.)

As I've tried to indicate throughout my posts in this thread, the question of nature is the question I've been concerned with. Thus the last thread I intentionally posted under the name of just Sauwelios, which I've mentioned before, begins as follows:

"Nature and God, rightly understood, contradict one another. Nature is supposed to be something fixed, determinate; God is supposed to be omnipotent, i.e., absolutely free." (http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=193537)

The essay I finished this morning also quotes Strauss, without translation:

"Auf die Frage, ob der Mensch ein natürliches Wesen sei, antworten Sie [Karl Löwith] mit einem Ja und Nein ...; wenn dem so ist, kann die Natur nicht der Grund alles Seienden sein und Heidegger, der diesen Grund in Sein findet, ist daher vorzuziehen."

I translate:

"To the question whether man be a natural being, you [Karl Löwith] answer with a yes and no [...]; if that is so, nature cannot be the ground [or (sufficient) reason] of all being(s), and Heidegger, who finds this ground in Being, is thence to be preferred."

Being (Sein)... In German, this word is not cognate with phusis, but in English, it is (and the suffix -ing, too, is basically the same as -sis):

"[The am/was verb] is sometimes referred to by linguists as *es-*wes-. Until the distinction broke down 13c., *es-*wes- tended to express 'existence', with beon meaning something closer to 'come to be'." (https://www.etymonline.com/word/am; cf. https://www.etymonline.com/word/be)

At this point I see Fixed has replied again, saying that my expressing my being baffled by his presenting his blatant misinterpretation as _of course_ the text's fault "speaks of such absence of respect, of even the ink[l]ing that [I] could have respect, after our last conversation, that [he is] done with [me]"... Too bad for any (future) readers who find my investigations interesting: I could have said and quoted more, but I take Fixed's "[f]uck off, please" as his request to me to leave this thread again. Well, at least typing out that whole Nishitani passage has made _me_ understand it better! So Fixed, thanks for that. Or, if Nietzsche's Zarathustra is right that it's inhuman to bless where one is cursed and one should rather curse along a little: fuckerthefuck fuck fuck!
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 14, 2018 8:27 pm

Quote :
By what abductive reasoning did you arrive at that idea?

It was a simply question. Feel free to actually answer it. I'll note for now that you avoided answering.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 15, 2018 8:13 am

Some questions have no answers.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 15, 2018 2:40 pm

On will to power:  

This is German. Whose will to power is more foundational, so much so as to remain often hidden behind its opposite or, probably more often, its lack, than that of the Germans? I would see a comparison here only with Americans, where it comes to possessing a ‘cultural’ will to power so ironclad and unshakable that it can actually dissolve itself into its opposite and thrive underground, convincing most people that it no longer exists... perhaps this is its most happy form of existence, as a joke upon all joke-telling itself, as a comedy that transforms all other comedies into heroic tragedies by default. After all, America is born of its constitution and was conceived as young as possible, and is still very young; and too, for Germany, also being the last modern European state to constitute itself formally as a nation, is thus also young, but perhaps even more tellingly it is in Germany that the two greatest ideas of all, “culturally speaking”, have been born: the will to power and its opposite, namely communism.

So it seems fitting to me to allow Germany to continue to rule in Europe today, even through the debased means it is currently employing to that end. Germany rose to power culturally, militarily, and philosophically in a very short time, and then upon being decimated and beaten back, losing so much of itself in the process, after the World Wars, has done it again and aims to conquer all of Europe. Like America, Germany has been convinced to apply its will to power externally too soon, before it has allowed its sufficient inward development and sensitivities to cultivate; probably this impatient “outward” expansion, in all its forms, is just the natural condition of both America and Germany still being in their youth. America and Germany can help keep each other in check of their respective excesses, although there is certainly much to be said for the fact that America became, after WWII, very much more “German”-like with the intrusion of so many scientists, programs, theories, and philosophies from Germany into America. So the heart of America became more German, while in the academic institutions America became more British as a kind of compensation or reactionary regressionism.

What but a supremely and deeply buried, foundational will to power could endure electing someone like an Oblonko or a Shilkery? Or a Murkhell for that matter? I don’t mean that such a person can be elected at all, but that they can be elected and not immediately bring everything to total ruin. Machiavelli is a snake biting his own tail, now. Germany almost simultaneously conceived Nietzsche and Marx, and the world quickly became remade in the image of the terrifying daemonic tension that followed. What the fuck is will to power if not this?
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 15, 2018 4:56 pm

Salute on behalf of Europe This is excellent medicine
Germany and the US retain Roman structural integrity.

Ive linked this a dozen times but its just really perfect backing up what you say, the Bismarck film.
https://vimeo.com/151907297

Bismarck was a master of daemonism.
Nietzsche was Bismarcks exact contemporary, so it is unthinkable that N did not write for Bismarck, as much as implicitly about him.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 15, 2018 7:12 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:
What the fuck is will to power if not this?

Sure, that's cultural will to power. I'm not sure it's working though. The US uses threats and money to get compliance.

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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 15, 2018 7:15 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:

Bismarck was a master of daemonism.
Nietzsche was Bismarcks exact contemporary, so it is unthinkable that N did not write for Bismarck, as much as implicitly about him.
I agree. But also an admirer of Wilhelm perhaps?
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 15, 2018 9:08 pm

Sisyphus wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:

Bismarck was a master of daemonism.
Nietzsche was Bismarcks exact contemporary, so it is unthinkable that N did not write for Bismarck, as much as implicitly about him.
I agree.  But also an admirer of Wilhelm perhaps?

Yes Im sure, just as Bismarck must have tremendously respected his king to do him such an epic service.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 12:14 am

The scales are moving.



'I come back to you now, at the turn of the tide.'
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 6:41 am

Sure, Putin would love to see the return of the Soviet Union and all its former territories.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 9:06 am

Sisyphus wrote:
Sure, Putin would love to see the return of the Soviet Union and all its former territories.  

Cabbage-talk, Sisyphus. No tv for you.
Putin has in fact restored civilization in Europe as he liberated it from Nato's genocidal nazi grasp.

The next step is to recognize Moscow as one of Europes main capitals and integrate Russia entirely into Europe.
Only then will Europe return to being worthy of the Earth it takes up.

Europe is nothing without Russia. But American tv will have you believe otherwise. They think Europe is part of the US.
Can you tell me the capital of Lithuania though? Or of Croatia?

This documentary shows how Putin even restored some sanity in some liberal Brits and Americans.
Between him and Trump, we now have 2 actual men in politics, at the same time. Thats... never before been the case, has it? Not since Rome.

An that is where we are heading. The restoration of the Roman Empire across several continents. The end of the time of barbarians, lit. "blatherers".
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 1:06 pm

Quote :
Salute on behalf of Europe This is excellent medicine
Germany and the US retain Roman structural integrity.

Ive linked this a dozen times but its just really perfect backing up what you say, the Bismarck film.
https://vimeo.com/151907297

Bismarck was a master of daemonism.
Nietzsche was Bismarcks exact contemporary, so it is unthinkable that N did not write for Bismarck, as much as implicitly about him.

As I understand it, it was German tribes that beat back Roman armies over and over, ultimately setting the northern boundary of the Roman Empire for a long time. As for languages in Europe, there are Romantic ones and then there are Germanic ones. Germany is just... very deep.

I’ve also become convinced to study the history of Prussia, as I think this is very relevant now. Bismarck therefore too, of course.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 1:41 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
Salute on behalf of Europe This is excellent medicine
Germany and the US retain Roman structural integrity.

Ive linked this a dozen times but its just really perfect backing up what you say, the Bismarck film.
https://vimeo.com/151907297

Bismarck was a master of daemonism.
Nietzsche was Bismarcks exact contemporary, so it is unthinkable that N did not write for Bismarck, as much as implicitly about him.

As I understand it, it was German tribes that beat back Roman armies over and over, ultimately setting the northern boundary of the Roman Empire for a long time. As for languages in Europe, there are Romantic ones and then there are Germanic ones. Germany is just... very deep.

Germany was known as the Holy Roman Empire for centuries after Rome fell.

Also, the German language uses, like Russian but no other European language, the Latin/Greek case-system. The language when one constructs in it (I write both German and a bit of Latin), and the forms of thinking are similar. Entirely different from what are known as "Roman languages" like French and Spanish, which copied another aspect of Latin, more vocabulary, less deep influences, not its structural integrity. But German has literally copied it.

The power to organize of Rome (and Athens) has transferred to Germany, not to the Latin countries.

There have been several peoples that beat back the Romans. The Swiss to begin with, also the Visigoths, Slavs, the Teutons even invaded Rome - but none of these were inclined to copy its ironclad thought-structures, the grammar, nor did they thus attain to its iron will.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 1:53 pm

There are quite a bit more language groups than Romanic and Germanic ones in Europe. To begin with of course the Slavic ones as well as Russian which is a blend between Greek - which is fundamentally different from other European languages, and Slavic with pre-Germanic Nordic elements, but also the group to which Finish, Hungarian and I believe Basque belong. Then of course we have the Keltic language root as remains entirely intact in Welsh, of which I know a name of a town by heart: Lllanfairpllgwyngylgocherichwyrndropwllantisyliogogogoch.
Might have misspelled that.

In any case all this is known under the collective header of Indo-European, or Indo-Aryan languages. The bordering and contrasting group is Semitic, including Arabic an Hebrew.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 2:07 pm

So whereas other Germanic languages such as Swedish, Danish, Dutch and English have the linear structure that is used everywhere in the world, Germany itself uses the otherwise largely forgotten or receded discipline of cases, which requires that one think ahead of speaking. To my knowledge only Greek, Latin, Russian and German have this non-linear, purely dynamic architecture.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 6:17 pm

Europes core countries are France Germany Italy and Russia. England, of course, but they play with slightly different rules. Not continental, existential, but calculating. Their policy has always been to keep all the European powers relatively weak with respect to each others by shifting their alliance all the time.

There is another core power, which used to be a unity as the Austrian Hungarian empire, but is now a region also touching Poland, Czech/Slovak, Ukraine, Romania. This looks to be rising to prominence again through "populist forces", i.e. real democracy.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 7:20 pm

Yes, I believe that part of the reason "the west" attained its world power status, and was able to develop the cultural and scientific and military power that goes along with that, is due to how the European countries relate to each other. They are "elemental", atomic, the entire continent acts like a complex molecule... self-contained and self-referential but with separate parts serving different functions, and the whole thing changing all the time yet remaining what it is.

The US does this too, with its 50 states, but the US is more like a single atom than a huge molecule. The US is like a super heavy atom, Plutonium or something, whereas Europe is like an glucose molecule...


United States physic-al value-structure:

Will to Power - Page 9 Plutonium-atom-11588962


Europe physic-al value-structure:

Will to Power - Page 9 Cst-review-carbon-crystals-life-molecules-19-638

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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 7:42 pm

Interesting analogy but I think Europe is a set of lighter atoms seeking to become a larger atom, but being unable to merge into stability due to excess of heat essentially, excess of physics - so it is more of a messy plasma that seeks to attain enough heat within itself to go into a fusion. But it must attain this heat in its individual parts.

Germany tries to make it become an atom like the US, as they are both aspects of Rome, as the founding fathers implied very heavily. But in order to do that it needs Russia. If England gets the upper hand Europe is merely a failed imitation of the US, where "failed" is a euphemism, but with Russia it becomes a vast continental inevitability. And this will force the US to expand into the South with a new sort of federal brotherhood as Pezer described in the studio one time.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 7:47 pm

Entrenched continents. The two will then attain a deeper nature as whatever is in Fireland in the south of Argentina and Chile is also in Alaska, and what is in Lisbon is in Wladiwostok. As I assume that what is in Casablanca is also in Cape Town.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 8:08 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Sisyphus wrote:
Sure, Putin would love to see the return of the Soviet Union and all its former territories.  

Cabbage-talk, Sisyphus. No tv for you.
Putin has in fact restored civilization in Europe as he liberated it from Nato's genocidal nazi grasp.

The next step is to recognize Moscow as one of Europes main capitals and integrate Russia entirely into Europe.
Only then will Europe return to being worthy of the Earth it takes up.

Europe is nothing without Russia. But American tv will have you believe otherwise. They think Europe is part of the US.
Can you tell me the capital of Lithuania though? Or of Croatia?

This documentary shows how Putin even restored some sanity in some liberal Brits and Americans.
Between him and Trump, we now have 2 actual men in politics, at the same time. Thats... never before been the case, has it? Not since Rome.

An that is where we are heading. The restoration of the Roman Empire across several continents. The end of the time of barbarians, lit. "blatherers".

Well, you seem to be more knowledgeable and opinionated regarding this than I am.

No, I can't tell you the capital of either of those countries without looking it up. My data base is full and I would have to delete some stuff in order to store more.

But I agree with you regarding the "two men in politics" at the same time. We know what Germany and Britain have.

BTW Trump scored 30 out of a possible 30 on his mental health evaluation.

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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 8:16 pm

Yes - it was the myth that got Europe on the brink of war, that Putin would want that. He just doesn't want nato nukes at his border and in the territories that have always been and still are inhabited by Russians. I am part Russian, so yes I am involved. No hard feelings of course. You are right about there having been two men and more in politics at once. Often this is in a war situation. But I find al three men now in charge pretty strong-minded; Xi of China is clearly a capable and, in perhaps rather dark ways, wise man as well. Women haven't managed to really mess up that type of hierarchy, on the contrary. They play into it with their easy ways.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 8:20 pm

The analogy of the atom and molecule is solid because it shows exactly how Europe is failing as an entity.
Nation states are atoms, but a trade-union is not thereby the full potential of the atoms at the same time.

War is the form in which it has found its full potential most of the time. The Renaissance was also a continental rebirth and the Inquisition a continental scourge.
Rome is behind all of this, aways - the motivations are still Greek and Roman. This is what keeps us alive, that we war.

On the other hand, the US is more like a direct cross breed between Athenians and Comanches, very pure will both forward and to the earth.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 11:11 pm

I understand now why the Vikings, Greeks and Romans had multiple gods: because they could self-value, which means they could hold multiple different value-standards at the same time without collapsing these into one “universal” standard.

They had slaves, and free people. A slave could be killed and no one cared, but such was not permitted against a free person, because for a free man the law applies.

Two different standards. This is self-valuing: one standard for oneself and one’s type, and to hold anything else not of that self and type to totally different standards.

This is also the birth of globalism in the inverse, which is thoroughly Xstian; glow-ball-ism, the trendy neon party philosophy of millennials everywhere, millennial “agonstics and new agers” who are even more Xstian than their Lutheran or Catholic parents. “Love is, like, an attitude, bruh”. Lol.

When self-valuing was lost to the Xstian perversion, to the “one god”, no longer could man will and value in tiers according to himself-as-standard, he had to subvert himself to “the all”, to the Kantian category, to the Hegelian absolute, to the Jezuz and his worldcross. Yeah, fuck that.

European globalism is just the survival of the Xstian strain. But the old gods still walk, and they do not take kindly to this upstart forger and petty criminal of values, who nonetheless breeds quite creative men and quite deep hearts if only, as with Shakespeare, because when you are bred to grow everything together with everything else then honest men will be forced to make something of that, to find a compromise, a higher more comprehensive idea, in it. Yes. Universalism as a means to the further comprehension of values, because of how it works upon the valuer.

But it cannot survive. Values are earthy. Many gods, many value-standards. The future will be like this: men and slaves. Hell, the present is like this right now. Just that the Cstian and his one god doesn’t realize it. But I mean that slavery as a status, and indeed these millennials will even attempt to value themselves and turn it into a status, will actually come back.

Compassion is the new face of the one Abrahamist god today, as liberal leftism, as “humanism”, as “Love to all”, which is obviously the death of love as Nietzsche and so many others knew. If you love then you must also NOT love what is NOT your love. Yes/.. just imagine the mind of Ragnar or Floki, with these multiple worlds (“gods”) circling in the dark ether of their mental universes, like lightning, each god a totally separate center of logic and its own reality. Ah, to be formed by such a plural tectonics, to be the self-valuing born thereof. The sheer power of this is hard for us moderns to think about... the sheer power to not even possess a concept-space in ones mind for “universality”.


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