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'Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day. But when I follow at my pleasure the serried multitude of the stars in their circular course, my feet no longer touch the earth.'
 
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Sisyphus
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 23, 2018 8:54 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
I expect these posts of mine to be as much a deterrent as a ban. There is no way these goals can be attained from the "here and now".  And I don't expect many people to be capable of looking beyond the obvious and fearsome indifference of the world.

Time will tell of strength.
Not of much else.

I am reading your and Capable's posts. All of them.

I view the "here and now" with comparison with the past. I cannot blindly follow. I tried that and it didn't work for me.

I can't change the world. Nietzsche didn't change it either. But I can change myself. Nietzsche never had the opportunity to do so even if he wanted to.

But I will walk with you for as long as you allow me to be in your presence.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 23, 2018 8:56 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
Most people are hesitant to believe they could do what they would like to. I have already done more than I had thought possible. So I am in a different kind of situation, where I only bother with selecting goals that are beyond the normal scope of teleology.

I had a head start but you are catching up with me.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 23, 2018 8:58 am

Thrasymachus wrote:
Indeed, only strength really endures. I had that thought recently too. Might as well offer that as a definition of the will to power: “only strength endures”.

I agree. But for my own use I have included "flexibility".

Therefore, for me, it would be "Only strength and flexibility endures."
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 23, 2018 9:09 am

Fixed Cross wrote:


Don't you see it nihilism is over, the Earth is empty.

I disagree with this. There are lost souls, sure. But there are some enduring souls too.

Nietzsche was one. You and Capable are two more. And there are others.

Nietzsche didn't change the world. After he passed the herd animals were still following their shepherd.

Nietzsche challenged man to become a better man; to become a Superman.

Some have done this and are well known. Others have done this and no one knows their name.

Nihilism is never an answer. It is a sign of giving up on the question.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 23, 2018 9:10 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
All goals are dead. - Clint Eastwood in his mid-twenties

Well, even famous people say things that are not supported by facts.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 23, 2018 10:55 am

Sisyphus wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
I politely ask Sisyphus to remember he is in a place that Capable/Thrasymachus created for the purpose of discussing philosophy on a certain level.

If this level is too high, then feel free to insult Capable so much as to merit banning. I think it is a radically pointless behaviour to, instead of practicing philosophy, spend your time on writing insults to your host. But to each his own.

Let's consider that it was I who was first insulted.  I have not given anyone permission to do that.  It is unacceptable.  Nietzsche told me as much.

I am still trying to find Capable's level of investigation.

Don't think that I cannot interact at any level this forum wished to interact at.  That's not the point at all.

The point is that I have my understanding.  I will voice them.  I am always being honest in these discussions.  I'm not saying I am correct.  All I am saying is that I have my understandings based on my reading of Nietzsche during the mid-1980s.  I have forgotten much.  That is the most important reason I joined this forum.  To test my remaining understandings.

I hope Capable will tell me what I said that offended him and why it offended him.  If we can't talk about that he will eventually ban me because I will continue to respond on this sire according to my understandings.

I know what offended Capable, which was your comment that the US has no culture. Capable is a very proud and very cultured American. If you say America has no culture you re saying his values do not exist. And that brings someone little choice but to get angry. Especially considering this climate where all the lefties say the US has no meaning, value, and that its culture is inferior to any given South American or African country that wants to send its immigrants over to the US so the US can "learn from better cultures" and "white people can from non-white people what it means to be white" and all that stuff.

The fact is no one would be going to the US if it didn't have this tremendous culture. No one goes to any islamic country because they are per definition without culture. Instead the muslims want to come to the US to enjoy the phenomenon of culture.

Further I was also under the impression that you are proud four culture, as you so often come up with music and other nice things from it.

Anyway, you are an appreciated guest here. But these are explosive times with much at stake, and American culture is definitely at stake as all the muslims and lefties want to destroy it and negate it.

One could argue that islam is a culture but maybe islam would need to bring forth some cultural item first. I agree that once, 1000 years ago, it may have had the semblance of a culture, but I think that was all theft and imitation of Greece and old Middle Eastern traditions that existed long before that, erm, "book" was first published.

Know yourself above that Sisyphus - you yourself are a cultured man, and an American. To say there is no American culture is an injustice to yourself. That is not self-valuing!
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 23, 2018 11:05 am

Sisyphus wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
Indeed, only strength really endures. I had that thought recently too. Might as well offer that as a definition of the will to power: “only strength endures”.

I agree.  But for my own use I have included "flexibility".

Therefore, for me, it would be "Only strength and flexibility endures."

Yes, I think strength always includes flexibility. Marble must for example be a relatively flexible material, in that it is not brittle.
There is a saying that something that doesn't bend must break. That ha been used in man ignoble ways, but there is of course a part of truth in it.

A tree is evidently a good example of a strength including flexibility.

Another way is seeing how things change direction when a strength pulls or pushes them, but it happens in a curve, the direction is bent into another direction. In this case it is the effect of the strength that manifests in a flexible way.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 23, 2018 11:16 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
Sisyphus wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
I politely ask Sisyphus to remember he is in a place that Capable/Thrasymachus created for the purpose of discussing philosophy on a certain level.

If this level is too high, then feel free to insult Capable so much as to merit banning. I think it is a radically pointless behaviour to, instead of practicing philosophy, spend your time on writing insults to your host. But to each his own.

Let's consider that it was I who was first insulted.  I have not given anyone permission to do that.  It is unacceptable.  Nietzsche told me as much.

I am still trying to find Capable's level of investigation.

Don't think that I cannot interact at any level this forum wished to interact at.  That's not the point at all.

The point is that I have my understanding.  I will voice them.  I am always being honest in these discussions.  I'm not saying I am correct.  All I am saying is that I have my understandings based on my reading of Nietzsche during the mid-1980s.  I have forgotten much.  That is the most important reason I joined this forum.  To test my remaining understandings.

I hope Capable will tell me what I said that offended him and why it offended him.  If we can't talk about that he will eventually ban me because I will continue to respond on this sire according to my understandings.

I know what offended Capable, which was your comment that the US has no culture. Capable is a very proud and very cultured American. If you say America has no culture you re saying his values do not exist. And that brings someone little choice but to get angry. Especially considering this climate where all the lefties say the US has no meaning, value, and that its culture is inferior to any given South American or African country that wants to send its immigrants over to the US so the US can "learn from better cultures" and "white people can from non-white people what it means to be white" and all that stuff.

The fact is no one would be going to the US if it didn't have this tremendous culture. No one goes to any islamic country because they are per definition without culture. Instead the muslims want to come to the US to enjoy the phenomenon of culture.

Right, the "culture" in the Arab Muslim world is... such that they simply want to come here, those of them who have any spark of humanity, that is.

Hell at least we have fucking bookstores here.

Quote :
Further I was also under the impression that you are proud four culture, as you so often come up with music and other nice things from it.

Anyway, you are an appreciated guest here. But these are explosive times with much at stake, and American culture is definitely at stake as all the muslims and lefties want to destroy it and negate it.

Indeed. And they will not succeed.

See what happens when the weak, corrupted leftist hammer tries to smash into the anvil of American truth.

Quote :
One could argue that islam is a culture but maybe islam would need to bring forth some cultural item first. I agree that once, 1000 years ago, it may have had the semblance of a culture, but I think that was all theft and imitation of Greece and old Middle Eastern traditions that existed long before that, erm, "book" was first published.

Know yourself above that Sisyphus - you yourself are a cultured man, and an American. To say there is no American culture is an injustice to yourself. That is not self-valuing!

It is typical leftist drama. It stems from self-hate, which I have seen in Sisyphus before.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 23, 2018 11:22 am

I refuse to even entertain the notion the America has no culture, certainly when compared to the Muslim world.

I mean, fuck. Jezuz. All these silly leftists are being thrown into the forge-fire, and still they... whine about fairness? What the fuck do they think history even is?

ODIN

Yes, and Roman Gods, and the Greeks. Apollo. By the beard of Zeuz.

GrecoRomanism is all that matters.

And the Nordic Rune Gods, ofc.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 23, 2018 3:17 pm

For the soldiers that want to make rank.





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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 23, 2018 3:27 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:
I refuse to even entertain the notion the America has no culture, certainly when compared to the Muslim world.

All of the world is focussed on what the US does, and all of the world consumes its art. It is by all standards the leading culture of the world. To become this it has integrated high and challenging aspects of the greatest cultures in human history.

And indeed, I think it is fair to say that a people needs to have more than just one book, which they are also allowed to freely interpret, to be attributed the term "culture". Islamic culture is thus a contradiction in terms.

Its harsh, but Im not the one responsible for that poverty, so too bad.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 23, 2018 3:40 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
I refuse to even entertain the notion the America has no culture, certainly when compared to the Muslim world.

All of the world is focussed on what the US does, and all of the world consumes its art. It is by all standards the leading culture of the world. To become this it has integrated high and challenging aspects of the greatest cultures in human history.

And indeed, I think it is fair to say that a people needs to have more than just one book, which they are also allowed to freely interpret, to be attributed the term "culture". Islamic culture is thus a contradiction in terms.

Its harsh, but Im not the one responsible for that poverty, so too bad.

Exactly.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 23, 2018 6:40 pm

And thats really unnecessary as there is nothing wrong with Arab culture. They even used to have poetry and fairy tales. But as the one book became more powerful the others fell away. The one book could not self-value the other things, it is brittle and makes brittle. That religion has a lot of spit but brittle bones. Some strong people can endure it but most turn to mush, mentally, before the age of 30. A greater cognitive dissonance than what was caused by 9/11 -- aha - that is the way the muslims vanquished, we were taught what it is to believe in the absurd because family and authority consider disbelief a sin severe enough to excommunicate.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 23, 2018 6:58 pm

Any culture or society so utterly devoid of freedom— free speech, free thought, free press, free action— must be mercilessly burned to the ground.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 23, 2018 7:07 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Sisyphus wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
I politely ask Sisyphus to remember he is in a place that Capable/Thrasymachus created for the purpose of discussing philosophy on a certain level.

If this level is too high, then feel free to insult Capable so much as to merit banning. I think it is a radically pointless behaviour to, instead of practicing philosophy, spend your time on writing insults to your host. But to each his own.

Let's consider that it was I who was first insulted.  I have not given anyone permission to do that.  It is unacceptable.  Nietzsche told me as much.

I am still trying to find Capable's level of investigation.

Don't think that I cannot interact at any level this forum wished to interact at.  That's not the point at all.

The point is that I have my understanding.  I will voice them.  I am always being honest in these discussions.  I'm not saying I am correct.  All I am saying is that I have my understandings based on my reading of Nietzsche during the mid-1980s.  I have forgotten much.  That is the most important reason I joined this forum.  To test my remaining understandings.

I hope Capable will tell me what I said that offended him and why it offended him.  If we can't talk about that he will eventually ban me because I will continue to respond on this sire according to my understandings.

I know what offended Capable, which was your comment that the US has no culture. Capable is a very proud and very cultured American. If you say America has no culture you re saying his values do not exist. And that brings someone little choice but to get angry. Especially considering this climate where all the lefties say the US has no meaning, value, and that its culture is inferior to any given South American or African country that wants to send its immigrants over to the US so the US can "learn from better cultures" and "white people can from non-white people what it means to be white" and all that stuff.

The fact is no one would be going to the US if it didn't have this tremendous culture. No one goes to any islamic country because they are per definition without culture. Instead the muslims want to come to the US to enjoy the phenomenon of culture.

Further I was also under the impression that you are proud four culture, as you so often come up with music and other nice things from it.

Anyway, you are an appreciated guest here. But these are explosive times with much at stake, and American culture is definitely at stake as all the muslims and lefties want to destroy it and negate it.

One could argue that islam is a culture but maybe islam would need to bring forth some cultural item first. I agree that once, 1000 years ago, it may have had the semblance of a culture, but I think that was all theft and imitation of Greece and old Middle Eastern traditions that existed long before that, erm, "book" was first published.

Know yourself above that Sisyphus - you yourself are a cultured man, and an American. To say there is no American culture is an injustice to yourself. That is not self-valuing!

Okay. I understand so much better why he became upset. Thanks for bring that to my attention.

I have expressed here a couple times that I am a proud American. My statement about America having no culture is not timely anymore. Not even a valid statement any more. I should not say it again.

And when I said that I didn't mean to insult the USA. Our culture is still changing. Our world moves much faster than any other country on the planet.

And I agree, how many people risk their life trying to sneak into Nicaragua or Albania?

I will be more watchful of my wording in the future so that I am not misunderstood.



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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 23, 2018 7:11 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Sisyphus wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
Indeed, only strength really endures. I had that thought recently too. Might as well offer that as a definition of the will to power: “only strength endures”.

I agree.  But for my own use I have included "flexibility".

Therefore, for me, it would be "Only strength and flexibility endures."

Yes, I think strength always includes flexibility. Marble must for example be a relatively flexible material, in that it is not brittle.
There is a saying that something that doesn't bend must break. That ha been used in man ignoble ways, but there is of course a part of truth in it.

A tree is evidently a good example of a strength including flexibility.

Another way is seeing how things change direction when a strength pulls or pushes them, but it happens in a curve, the direction is bent into another direction. In this case it is the effect of the strength that manifests in a flexible way.

Excellent response. I don't know if it is Nietzschean but it sure is Chuang Tzu.

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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 23, 2018 7:14 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:


It is typical leftist drama. It stems from self-hate, which I have seen in Sisyphus before.

I apologize that you were offended by what I said earlier.

But this last statement is not true. You have never seen that in me. You may have imagined it but that is your illusion.

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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 23, 2018 7:18 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:
Any culture or society so utterly devoid of freedom— free speech, free thought, free press, free action— must be mercilessly burned to the ground.

But I still occasionally get to agree with you.

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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 24, 2018 2:17 pm

I won't lift another finger for you faggots
you dickless motherfucking squishy maggots
you know what you deserve and you're gonna get it
I could stop it for you but Imma let it




Self-valuing logic belongs to me and mine. Only those that benefit us in acts are allowed to use it.
Using it without benefitting its owners shall be a trespass of the cosmic order (kosmos) and consequences will follow.

I like this.


My fellow kings and queens, you know who you are.
The rest, yeah exactly, you don't know who you are.

Thus speaks the Übermensch.


Last edited by Fixed Cross on Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:51 am; edited 8 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 24, 2018 4:55 pm

Sisyphus, this was not in reaction to you, nor was my intention to call you either a faggot or a maggot or any of that.
You are certainly welcome to use VO.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 24, 2018 5:36 pm

This thread has led to the realization that in order for VO to survive, it must self-value, it must set terms for its interactions.
It must only interact with those worthy of it.
Proof of worthiness is not judged in objective terms.
It needs to simply happen to be the case.

I can't force a flower to grow without Sun. I can't force a human to self-value without the proper conditions either.
Ive underestimated how difficult it is to come to the moral decision to integrate all of ones life into the cognitive discipline of self-valuing logic.

All of the emotions have to be addressed and, to an extent, mastered - familiarized ;  and above all, the courage before risk is upheld on an hourly basis. At the genesis there is sacrifice. The light is separated from the dark and singled out to be absolute rather than potency.

This is how the sword is connected to the mind.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 24, 2018 11:51 pm

Yes, things must first wear terrifying and monstrous masks, as N knew. That they are or appear as “dark and mysterious” is a void into which we feel compelled to expand ourselves as Depth. Depth for its own sake, we are a depth-process. We wish to sink ourselves into a depth, which means into something “eternal” (into something that, no matter how far into it we get, we can always go still further).

We need novety, we also need these “eternal” experiences, and we also need to establish ourselves as experts in some domain of importance. On top of all that, the allure of the unknown promises hints of power. The stronger one is the more one will be able to check fear of the unknown with this allure to a potential new power-scope. Thus as Fixed and I were saying that only strength endures.

I don’t know about this, though: “have acted on behalf of philosophy out of philanthropic motives.” What defines a real philosopher is that his concern is truth itself. He can be philanthropic or misanthropic or, more likely, neither. It would vary and change anyway based on concerns of the moment and based on context. It doesn’t matter. All that matters is valuing reality, truth, above all else. Also, to “act on behalf of philosophy” doesn’t even make sense. Philosophy isn’t something we act on the behalf of. Philosophy is something that happens because we cannot help but to value truth itself and regardless of other concerns that would tempt us away from that. Philosophy is simply a thing that happens as a consequence of truthful men, a kind of “secret cannon throughout history” as Parodites once said (my paraphrase), and certainly is not something to which we owe any allegiance. The truthful man (philosopher) owes allegiance to nothing, except truth itself. But that does not mean he does not value other things, only that they can never command him.

Also, if we were to truly act “on behalf” of “philosophy” (whatever that means) I can easily see this implying that we attack philosophy mercilessly and attempt to burn it to the ground of its many errors and illusions, even perhaps to despise “philosophy” because of how sickly and silly so much of it ends up being. A philosopher is his philosophy. If he is not, then he is not a philosopher to begin with.

“We lack a true and vital struggle with illusion” as Parodites also said. “Philosophy” can also be described as this lack. Enslaving oneself to another philosopher’s ideas, or to “philosophy itself” (which doesn’t even exist) would be precisely this lack.

Anyway, it’s stupid to attempt to analyze the motives of a true thinker/philosopher based on whether or not he was philanthropic or misanthropic. A more pernicious and defeating conflation can scarcely be imagined. Even thinking along such lines would certainly run the risk of ruining oneself for anything truthful.
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 25, 2018 12:15 am

When considering another philosopher’s ideas and work, the last thing I give a fuck about is how “philanthropic or misanthropic” he seemed to feel or seemed to act like. Who fucking cares. It has no bearing on his work either way, and certainly isn’t some kind of unchanging or fundamental label that can be applied to a philosopher (and if it can be, then such a person is necessarily steeped in ideological pathologies as grave and artificial self-limitations, so isn’t a philosopher anyway).
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 25, 2018 12:17 am

Jezuz, we might as well ask what a philsopher’s favorite color was. Who fucking cares?
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PostSubject: Re: Will to Power   Will to Power - Page 13 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 25, 2018 12:29 am

Thrasymachus wrote:
Also, if we were to truly act “on behalf” of “philosophy” (whatever that means) I can easily see this implying that we attack philosophy mercilessly and attempt to burn it to the ground of its many errors and illusions, even perhaps to despise “philosophy” because of how sickly and silly so much of it ends up being.

Isn't that exactly what Nietzsche did?


Quote :
Anyway, it’s stupid to attempt to analyze the motives of a true thinker/philosopher based on whether or not he was philanthropic or misanthropic. A more pernicious and defeating conflation can scarcely be imagined. Even thinking along such lines would certainly run the risk of ruining oneself for anything truthful.

"What philosophy is is twofold. It is the love of two things. First, though not necessarily foremost, it is love of the pleasure of cruelty. Thus Leo Strauss says that cruelty, 'as cruelty directed toward oneself, is effective in intellectual probity, in "the intellectual conscience."' With this cruelty the philosopher drives himself toward the truth, regardless of whether it be pleasant or unpleasant, edifying or depressing. But philosophy is also the love of the pleasure of seeing the truth, that it is edifying. Thus philosophy does two things: it seeks to discover more of the truth, regardless of whether it be edifying, and it enjoys the truth to the extent that it has discovered it--like a beatific vision!" (https://beforethelight.forumotion.com/t523-sawelios-weltanschauungsphilosophie-and-automorphism)

Political philosophy, which as Lampert puts it "is driven by love of the human, philanthropy" in the sense of "action on behalf of the human in its highest reach, its reach for understanding" (HPBS, page 14), follows from this enjoyment of the truth...

::

Thrasymachus wrote:
When considering another philosopher’s ideas and work, the last thing I give a fuck about is how “philanthropic or misanthropic” he seemed to feel or seemed to act like. Who fucking cares. It has no bearing on his work either way, and certainly isn’t some kind of unchanging or fundamental label that can be applied to a philosopher (and if it can be, then such a person is necessarily steeped in ideological pathologies as grave and artificial self-limitations, so isn’t a philosopher anyway).

Don't you think it's saying something that Marx was consistently described by those who knew him in real life as a very unpleasant fellow, whereas Nietzsche, to the contrary? (Schopenhauer, too, was very unpleasant: obit anus, abit onus...)
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