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'Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day. But when I follow at my pleasure the serried multitude of the stars in their circular course, my feet no longer touch the earth.'
 
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 Self Knowing

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individualized
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PostSubject: Self Knowing   Self Knowing Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2018 8:04 am

By not giving a fuck about what others think (by developing this emotional substance and machinery, so to speak, in my soul, as opposed to merely stating that I do not give a fuck or that I do not want to give a fuck, because such statements are nothing more than words) I am able to close my value-sphere around myself more tightly, and by doing this I am able to know myself far better. I am able to see myself, encounter myself, much more and much more clearly. As a result of this, I am deepened in my inability to give one fuck for anything anyone else might happen to think of me, unless that person or that thing said has some relevance and value.

This closes the circle even tighter; see, this is a kind of self-feeding cycle. Pretty damn cool, I would say.

And the more of not giving a fuck that I become, the more I am able to apply my emotions more sanely and helpfully to others, the more kind toward others I also become. Kindness presupposes degrees of knowledge, because kindness is a kind of building. Unkindness may include knowledge but does not presuppose it, it can simply be blindly destructive or blindly dismissive.

There is a lot of unkindness bound up with the kindness in most people, I notice. They, often being unable to differentiate the two, end up putting up limits in their soul beyond which they will not transgress. I really hate having to deal with these sort of limits, it is a pain in the ass to be honest. So when you find someone without those sort of limits, you will know that this person has delimited his/her soul to a very significant degree, which further implies that this person has a tight self-valuing circle around themselves, which means they are able to respond to and deal with far more substantial values and far more substantially than most other people. It is also in such people that you will tend to find the "don't give a fuck" attitude in their personality.

As Parodites once said, the ultimate human power which no one can ever take away and on which all other powers rest, is the power to tell everyone else to go fuck off.

 

___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”.  -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning


Last edited by Thrasymachus on Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Self Knowing   Self Knowing Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2018 8:06 am

Having a delimited soul in this way seems to indicate the presence of a delicate balance of tensions in the soul. Many oppositions all intricately stacked in relation to one another, a very fine machinery. This is truly beautiful.

If you find someone like this, hang on to them if you can.

 

___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”.  -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: Self Knowing   Self Knowing Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2018 10:01 am

Thrasymachus wrote:
By not giving a fuck about what others think
What are the disadvantages to that philosophy? Every advantage has a disadvantage.
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Styrkjar
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PostSubject: Re: Self Knowing   Self Knowing Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2018 10:46 am

Serendipper wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
By not giving a fuck about what others think
What are the disadvantages to that philosophy?  Every advantage has a disadvantage.
I think it's possible you might grow insensitive to constructive criticism. Also there is the potential that you alienate yourself from other people with your behavior. A healthy relation between not giving a fuck about the judgement of others but also valuing it and deciding if it is uncalled for is sometimes necessary. Unless of course the people judging you are not rational, follow a certain ideology and don't value other opinions and judge you based on said ideology or have nothign but negative intent. Give a fuck about the people you care about, don't give a fuck about the rest. It will drive you insane and exhaust you trying to reason with people which don't have the capabilty to understand you even though you are being 100% rational, therefore limiting your ability to help the imporant people in your life. Like Thrasymachus said, not giving a fuck about things which are of no value to you lets you focus on helping others and helping yourself better. As long as you can differentiate between what is important and what is not I think there are no major drawbacks.
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PostSubject: Re: Self Knowing   Self Knowing Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2018 11:38 am

Styrkjar wrote:
Serendipper wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
By not giving a fuck about what others think
What are the disadvantages to that philosophy?  Every advantage has a disadvantage.
I think it's possible you might grow insensitive to constructive criticism.
Yes, that was my thought too.  One has to be wrong before he can be right and to wall oneself off seems to be shielding oneself from correction.

Quote :
Unless of course the people judging you are not rational,
It could follow that the blanket proclamation of not giving fucks presumes everyone is not rational. Otherwise we could give some fucks and not other fucks, depending on perceived rationality.

Quote :
follow a certain ideology and don't value other opinions and judge you based on said ideology or have nothign but negative intent.

The "us vs them" tribalism wherein we don't fraternize with the enemy.

Quote :
It will drive you insane and exhaust you trying to reason with people which don't have the capabilty to understand you even though you are being 100% rational, therefore limiting your ability to help the imporant people in your life.
What if irrational people are family?  I'm going in circles because I want to help family, but they are irrational, so the only way to get along is to see them as strangers, but if I do that, then I've lost the incentive to associate with them because why bother with irrational strangers?  I've found no way out of that mess.
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PostSubject: Re: Self Knowing   Self Knowing Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2018 7:52 pm

Serendipper wrote:
What if irrational people are family?  I'm going in circles because I want to help family, but they are irrational, so the only way to get along is to see them as strangers, but if I do that, then I've lost the incentive to associate with them because why bother with irrational strangers?  I've found no way out of that mess.
That of course is a problem. What you can do is support your family in points you can agree with. To blindly support someone just because they are family is not an option of course. The difference between family and friends is that you cannot pick your family, you are kind of stuck with them even if they are irrational. But try seeing them as more than their views, unless of course that is not possible. Family problems are usually very specific so I couldn't find a solution if I wasn't aware of the given situation. For instance I have met people, including my significant other, whose families were so irrational, ill-minded and negative that every attempt to reason with them failed. At a certain point you might have to realize that the situation is too extreme and you have tried everything, therefore having to accept that you might never be on good terms with them. I see this a lot in families with strong traditions f.e. in Asian culture. If you do not abide to their word, which is worth so much more compared to yours solely on the basis of age, you will be an outcast and disowned. This results in Asian teenagers commiting suicide because they are not getting into the college their parents want them to go to. This no longer has anything to do with respect for your elders, it is tyranny.
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PostSubject: Re: Self Knowing   Self Knowing Icon_minitimeTue Mar 20, 2018 12:59 pm

Styrkjar wrote:
Serendipper wrote:
What if irrational people are family?  I'm going in circles because I want to help family, but they are irrational, so the only way to get along is to see them as strangers, but if I do that, then I've lost the incentive to associate with them because why bother with irrational strangers?  I've found no way out of that mess.
But try seeing them as more than their views, unless of course that is not possible.
If I see them as more than their views and view them as family, then I care about them and want to help which of course leads to problems because no good deed goes unpunished and the road to hell is paved with good intentions.  Ok, so if i step back and view them as strangers to avoid being helpful, then because I view them as strangers and have no desire to help, then I lose sight of why I bother with people who are nuts.

Quote :
Family problems are usually very specific so I couldn't find a solution if I wasn't aware of the given situation.

Mom will complain about the price of her medications (which is a list filling the entire side of a sheet of paper and half the other side), so if I suggest not paying $10/mo for dialup internet since she hasn't had a landline in a decade, she refuses to listen to me and she thinks she needs it to make her gmail account work.  She won't even ask someone else to verify my claim because truth is not important to her; only having her way is important.  She makes the most ridiculous claims and then insists everyone kowtow to them or else she'll start in on guilt trips of how hard her life was/is and whatever tactic is necessary to get her way.  She has such little trust in me that to this day she can't ride in the car with me driving without constantly praying which makes me want to drive straight into a tree.  I take offense that she eternally sees me as an 8 yr old who couldn't possibly have anything of merit to say.  And that's essentially the problem with all of my family.

Dad is polar opposite, but equally the same extreme.  Instead of the bible, money is his god and he's so cheap that it's expensive.  Mom can't save a penny and dad can't spend one.  He's sitting on a fortune because of his obsessive saving, but drives with dry rotted tires and his brakes were 16 yrs old when I changed them which is a hazard to his own life.  If I fill a pot of water to make spaghetti, he'll come running to be sure I don't overfill it will water and waste energy.  He saves envelopes for scratch paper and bread bags for sandwich bags.  He'll turn off the heat and sit in front of the tv with a sweater and hat.  It's just constant fighting with either of them and they both should be in the looney bin.  If I lived in Europe, I could probably sue both for abuse lol.  The only way I can conceive of dealing with them is if I were a buddhist master with no conception of self... or a drooling idiot.

They can't see their problems, but I can so the moral obligation to clean it up is on me.  Why should I care if mom and dad think I'm an idiot?  Why does it bother me?  I've tried asking for help from professionals online, but all I get is a list of options: Here are your choices.  Yes, I'm aware of my choices, but I need to be told what to do.  So I thought maybe I could buddy-up to some chaps on a motorbike forum or something and get some advice, but you seem levelheaded enough, so what do I do?  Essentially I have no family, but also have to deal with having a family.  The support group who are supposed to be there for me to discuss my problems are the same people who are causing me the problems.

Quote :
For instance I have met people, including my significant other, whose families were so irrational, ill-minded and negative that every attempt to reason with them failed. At a certain point you might have to realize that the situation is too extreme and you have tried everything, therefore having to accept that you might never be on good terms with them. I see this a lot in families with strong traditions f.e. in Asian culture. If you do not abide to their word, which is worth so much more compared to yours solely on the basis of age, you will be an outcast and disowned. This results in Asian teenagers commiting suicide because they are not getting into the college their parents want them to go to. This no longer has anything to do with respect for your elders, it is tyranny.
Mom points to the bible where it says "Honor your father and mother." wherein "honor" means "obey" so I'm a slave or a pet, nevermind that she doesn't "honor" hers whom she fights with like cats and dogs.  My HS history teacher said the fact that I turned-out any kind of normal is a miracle.
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PostSubject: Re: Self Knowing   Self Knowing Icon_minitime

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