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 If chaos, then what?

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Fixed Cross
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 11:12 am

tectonic tactician/fixed cross/capable of demonstration
for example

Pezer would be the Master of Ceremony of this group.
Frankly we're all very good rappers, the world should know our style.

Nthing is trivial. Thus "Everything, "All" is definitely trivial. What that leaves is a very peculiar moment of the choosing of my own tastes when a magician told a story.

(etc -)

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides


Last edited by Fixed Cross on Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:19 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 11:14 am

That the thing rappers are never alone.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 11:16 am

I don't believe in chaos
I am chaos
they tell me

why don't I believe in myself they ask

chaos is in the formation of a flower, it is all that collapses in favour of the Great.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 11:26 am

Rap gives an opportunity to bring back the old materials and start from the bottom, the rock where it still meet the grass. It has a kind of pedestrian nature as morality always does before the billions of years - and it uses this, like playing craps against the walls of eternity as I called it - and in this game finds the stone, the eternal dance of an environment of chance, the certainties. Win and lose - these are monumental concepts, the pillars of mercy and severity as they occur in time and define us step by step.

Determining what we wish to win is prior to all this but most of it is implicit in our nativity.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 12:23 pm


Well ok, you want a more concrete definition of chaos. You did what I said not to do, which is continue the greek conversation. Chaos meant void then. Kaoc, the sound of a drop onto a pool. Also why Thales held water to be the what everything is essencially. But the -oc was then deemed too hardcore, so it was softened into oç. It was the sound that determined existence, chaogenetic. Try it! Dyonisoç, Dyonisoç. Etc.

But this obviously is not the chaos Nietzsche, for example, refered to. It is simply its genetic precursor.

Chaos is, as traceable from that very genetic line, that which everything is.

Let's take it from the search for the grandest, most all determining, all encompassing, all being real thing. Famously pursued by catholics and philosophers. Is it God? But this would imply a unity of some sort. Everything can't be God and God remain a distinct thing. As you say, all knowledge must be rooted in experiencie. Can any such unity be drawn from experience?

Nietzsche and Kierkegaard both stumbled on this. The lack of unity.

The only term, and one which understanding requires only the barest intellectual honesty, that encompasses everything, absolutely everything, from order to what mathematicians call chaos or entropy, to punk horses, to what can't quite be put into words yet or ever or really anything at all and everything, including void, truths that contradict void, truths, absoluteness, the impossibility of absoluteness, sadness, blorgorg, infinity, an infinite etc. is chaos.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 12:26 pm

And even that elemental Greek pool, kaoc, is only void un like a genetic almost mystical place, a transition between chaos and Gods and Stuff, not because chaos requires one, or there necessarily is one. Just because chaos includes it un its inscrutable infinity.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 12:49 pm

Thats profoundly clarifying.
Yes then, chaos includes order, chaos is simply that which is but isn't subjected yet.
Lol, that explains my behaviour as FC.


Still this stresses self valuing logic principle as the architect of, for with and by or at least through chaos.
But maybe thats like saying the engine is the architect of the distance. One bridge too far.

VO needs wheels. Chaos can be its wheels.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 12:55 pm

Because VO is an order that destroys all previous orders of its... order.
Thus, it must have a kind of ally, something it doesn't destroy, to navigate itself, to self-valuing.

The self valuing logic is the dancing star born amid the chaos -
chaos is that which has no laws, so that lawlessnesses can exist and set their own laws, so that things can exist.

Chaos is the inverse of the grass growing through the rock, or tarmac. I don't know what that means, I just missed the metaphor.

But now see why chaos is a birth ground, even though not to itself, as it is simply the intermediary of being and the next instance of being; it is the collective unconscious will, the monster of energy that must seclude itself from itself in many compartmentalized chambers called entities; self-valuing is the escape of chaos from itself, which it fortunately never even intended to be, as that would be its death.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 12:56 pm

I believe that ‘void’ is only meaningful in relation to something which is absent. Thus there must be “some thing” already, thus absolute void-as-such, in a universal or a priori sense, makes no sense. I see this also applying to chaos.

I will give a brief overview of my argument for the meaninglessness if non-existence, or rather for the fact that something has always existed and it makes no sense to speak of a time at which there was nothing anywhere;

1) Principle of Sufficient Reason (it makes no sense, not even potentially or in imagination, to speak about something existing or occurring for literally no reason; you can always ask of everything “why did it occur? Why is it what it is, rather than something else?)

2) something exists right now (this cannot logically or sanely be denied)

3) ergo, given 1 and 2, something has always existed

4) ergo, given 3, it makes no sense to posit or speak about a time or original state of “void” wherein nothing existed anywhere, ever, at all.


—-

Therefore, in my view anyway, something has always existed and this is an absolutely fundamental and undeniable Fact. So given this fact, to speak of void is to speak of a specific absence of something which already exists or which already existed. Void just means “hey this existing thing isn’t happening to be here anymore”.

As for chaos, I’ve stated how I define this. I don’t believe in an absolute chaos because that would imply an absolute lack (void) of order, which would make no sense. For any thing to exist or to be the case, it must have some sort of ordered-ness to it. Order simply means relations between, structure, being-ness; without such things, no thing could exist, since this is basically just describing what it means to exist anyway.

 

___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”.  -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 12:59 pm

Pezer wrote:
And even that elemental Greek pool, kaoc, is only void un like a genetic almost mystical place, a transition between chaos and Gods and Stuff, not because chaos requires one, or there necessarily is one. Just because chaos includes it un its inscrutable infinity.
I like this.

Yeah this oq- it sounds Arabic.

Khalaq

Certain relatively chaotic beings.

tarmoq
roq.

Oq = death
to update suihelios



 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 1:13 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:
I believe that ‘void’ is only meaningful in relation to something which is absent. Thus there must be “some thing” already, thus absolute void-as-such, in a universal or a priori sense, makes no sense. I see this also applying to chaos.

Absolutely. So the Zen Void, it makes sense then that it is attained, to simply something contemplated; a true void of awareness (which first took me several hours of energizing, yoga and then meditation to attain, which I did every day for six months) is attained through recognizing all things and aligning them all on precisely the same wavelength. Then, the brain relaxes to about a tenth of its normal effort in a sort of sigh, and can be silent in absolute bliss for hours. Just nothing except use empty roaming of objectless release of endorphins and what not.

This it is simply neurological emptiness of tensions. It has no bearing on any ontological realities. It is the mind which ceases to identify with its thoughts and withdraws in the suspense of disbelief, or the suspense of discernment, not because there is nothing but because there is more than enough, so it doesn't matter whats what, and only in that carelessness before pure being, therein enjoying itself for its simple hearth, is this rapturous bliss of which angels are made to be enjoyed in a sensible, constant manner.

Quote :
I will give a brief overview of my argument for the meaninglessness if non-existence, or rather for the fact that something has always existed and it makes no sense to speak of a time at which there was nothing anywhere;

1) Principle of Sufficient Reason (it makes no sense, not even potentially or in imagination, to speak about something existing or occurring for literally no reason; you can always ask of everything “why did it occur? Why is it what it is, rather than something else?)

2) something exists right now (this cannot logically or sanely be denied)

3) ergo, given 1 and 2, something has always existed

4) ergo, given 3, it makes no sense to posit or speak about a time or original state of “void” wherein nothing existed anywhere, ever, at all.

Or, time is a possibility, and possibility has always existed - apparently. There are many ways to satisfy this question - but the one that finally satisfied me was "nothing has no power to enforce itself".


Quote :
Therefore, in my view anyway, something has always existed and this is an absolutely fundamental and undeniable Fact. So given this fact, to speak of void is to speak of a specific absence of something which already exists or which already existed. Void just means “hey this existing thing isn’t happening to be here anymore”.

As for chaos, I’ve stated how I define this. I don’t believe in an absolute chaos because that would imply an absolute lack (void) of order, which would make no sense. For any thing to exist or to be the case, it must have some sort of ordered-ness to it. Order simply means relations between, structure, being-ness; without such things, no thing could exist, since this is basically just describing what it means to exist anyway.

Chaos go me now means the basic ground of all tectonic differentiation; the medium generated by self valuing principle through having multiple instances of itself, which is basically what self-valuings encounter when they are perpetuating themselves;  it is as if it is the abyss between principle and manifestation.

Daath, in qabaliq order, would correspond to chaos.
One can only know chaos by traversing it, because to know it not-traversingly is not to exist.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 1:19 pm

But it could be that as chaos, one traverses the rest of being and leaves fertile chaos in ones wake.

( --- Digging downward-forward. Ploughing through life and leaving fertile chaos and upheaval as a trail. Mammoth strength. Marching barbarian army. The synchronized heartbeats of a million soldiers. Drums in the deep.) (Uruz is the abyss from which the primordial waters of Laguz flow  - Billian lore)

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 1:25 pm

What follows is that chaos means power.

To be considered chaotic means to not be controlled.
But since there is nothing that doesn't consist of WtP, if it isn't controlled it means it must be self-governed.

Throughout written history this has been the case, the apparitions of power dreams, the structures not known that can't even be registered as proper structures, and yet don't fail to conquer;

chaos is being as it comes in.
Humanity is chaos-resistance.
And all life is human in this way.

Chaos can be known, but only like light can be seen.
You can see where it just struck.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 1:30 pm

Power is a tolerance of chaos, and chaos is a tolerance of power.



 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 3:22 pm

Well it was a nice try anyway.

We may have better luck next time!
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 3:44 pm

I was going to announce that reply, but I figured Id let you have it.

But yeah, Im still irritated by how predictable you become when you see disobedience.
I tend to understand peoples intuitions better than they do, and thats not appreciated.

I guess Ill have to grant you time to incorporate this all into your language.

Nice setup, anyway.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 3:51 pm

Your chaos is still god. "Is it god?" no, god is dead.
It is the earth in which god was assimilated

You still fundamentally underestimate the depth of the principle, and the abyss that it represents.

Chaos is the result of necessity.
Chaos is not arbitrarily there, it has a character.
Existence isn't bland faceless pasta. Necessity has a countenance.

Look to the left.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 3:57 pm

The God recognizes your offering.

Wik wrote:
Chaos theory

Chaos theory is a branch of mathematics focusing on the behavior of dynamical systems that are highly sensitive to initial conditions. 'Chaos' is an interdisciplinary theory stating that within the apparent randomness of chaotic complex systems, there are underlying patterns, constant feedback loops, repetition, self-similarity, fractals, self-organization, and reliance on programming at the initial point known as sensitive dependence on initial conditions

So VO is actually recognizably and paradigmatically the mathematical axiom of chaos.
I didn't even realize how well it fits into the tradition of chaos-theory, how perfectly it completes it.

This solves the presentation problem. VO is axiomatic chaos theory.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 4:09 pm

ACT

 

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- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 4:11 pm

Pezer, you genius pathfinder.

 

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- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 4:19 pm

Presently existing Chaos Theory can be defined as behavioural chaos theory.
Its mathematics are simulations.

Axiomatic chaos theory is the proper integrating and explicating algebra, gives what in geometry is a system of axes and the zero at its heart, except that it isn't a zero but a self-valuing reference frame.

The curvature of the mapping of the progression of connecting self-valuing is the fractal.

I saw the basic implication a while ago;

"Gravity is subtle local derivative of the sort of value transaction constants offered as the motions of the planets with respect to one another with respect to their star with respect to its galactic center, with respect to what lies beyond into the vast ordering fractal Omega." [Clockwork Blue]

 

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- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 6:48 pm

Science is cruel.
The ontological tyranny can not be broken.
It can merely be seen for what it is, and cultivated.

All of the ground is turning green
and Johnny is working on a big machine
ain’t much left for the working man to sing

(Uncle Walt's Band, Getaway)

Thats what the episode ends with anyway.
For chaos theory, Silicon Valley is a good show.

Chaos is overwhelming odds which is why existence is heroic.
Daemonism usurps the chaotic to spit it out again, a whirling snake through lesser chains of probability, the kundalini eats chaos and breathes health into the realm.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 6:54 pm

How to get from chaos to health is in circles.

Time becomes a flower anyway, so why not work with it.

 

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- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 06, 2018 7:18 pm

Quote :
Logic is the will to predict. Without it, nothing can live. We observe regularities, and note these and include them into a system of other already discovered regularities. This has allowed us to conclude so many things that we know even less than we did when we knew nothing, because we have been caged inside our regularities and predictions and all the as yet unclassified rages among us unseen, and causes havoc and the end of our world. Affectance-Storms, nuclear fallout from broken self valuings, splinters of the anentropic shells blasting through our world as it stumbles.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what?   If chaos, then what? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jun 07, 2018 5:59 am

Chaos arises because of insufficient valuing, some of which is necessary and some of which isn’t.

There could be no chaos without an underlying and overlying order. Self-valuing is always inadequate to itself, to a degree, and has issues relating to other self-valuings; that is all chaos is. Complexity in both order and error and the necessities and contingencies of these.

Idealizing or metaphysicizing chaos is dumb, and will never justify anything like nihilism or apathy.

 

___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”.  -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
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