Before The Light
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.


'Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day. But when I follow at my pleasure the serried multitude of the stars in their circular course, my feet no longer touch the earth.'
 
HomeSearchRegisterLog in

 

 RM and value

Go down 
AuthorMessage
individualized
Tower
Tower
individualized

Posts : 5737
: 6982
Join date : 2011-11-03
Location : The Stars

RM and value Empty
PostSubject: RM and value   RM and value Icon_minitimeSat Oct 26, 2013 12:35 pm

RM shows the logic of how PtA can be turned against itself via manipulations in "the situation" (outside influences) as INCENTIVES for lowering the threshold of self-value and valuing-activity. By altering one's perceptions of the EFFORT needed to value X, distortion is introduced as the self is distanced from its ACTUAL valuing-activity and "meaning"-perception of X.

When we take short-cuts to higher values we produce affective tendencies in the self (or "will") to distance from value, and in value (action, necessity, consequences, power and ideas-thought capacity) to distance from self. Not only that, but this progressive destruction of capacity for responsibility and living has tendencies to be self-sustaining, it leads to the development of inertia, an "anti-gravity" of subjective de-acceleration.

The final conclusion of such a phenomenon can only be death, in one form or others.

 

___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”.  -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
Back to top Go down
Pezer
builder
builder


Posts : 2191
: 2592
Join date : 2011-11-15
Location : deep caverns in caves

RM and value Empty
PostSubject: Re: RM and value   RM and value Icon_minitimeSat Oct 26, 2013 5:37 pm

Nietzsche solved that one. The "will" is a name for the stupid animal which one would look at no further, which looking is making. The will to power, well... How do you decieve that? It might be the only platonic idea in the Topus Uranus, and it obviously destroys it. "One is only will to power when one is strong."
Back to top Go down
James S Saint
rational metaphysicist
rational metaphysicist


Posts : 244
: 270
Join date : 2011-12-26

RM and value Empty
PostSubject: Re: RM and value   RM and value Icon_minitimeSun Oct 27, 2013 1:43 pm

Wrong thread..


Last edited by James S Saint on Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:12 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
individualized
Tower
Tower
individualized

Posts : 5737
: 6982
Join date : 2011-11-03
Location : The Stars

RM and value Empty
PostSubject: Re: RM and value   RM and value Icon_minitimeMon Oct 28, 2013 10:56 pm

Christianism gives an 'eternal' form to consciousness, thus closing it off from its environment and power relations. Man used to be essentially open, now he is essentially closed. The modern forms of these closures are many, but all derive from Christianism.

Man is suffocating and he is supposed to accept as the answer either death or... death.

Living is a state that the christian knows nothing about, because he's decided it's preferable to merely exist. He wishes only to experience indiscriminately. That might have worked well for the first few generations, when the burden of life was so great as to make any kind of respite, no matter the cost, seem like a blessing. But fast forward 2000 years, and we see instead the end of man, the final "'What is a star?'—thus asks the last man, and he blinks" of consciousness.  



RM is the final nail in the coffin for humanity. You should be proud, James. It's truly a beautiful thing you've done. (not saying the work wasn't inevitable anyway, and you've played your part in the grand procession of Fate)...

You've contributed to make dying infinitely painless. And for that I love you, and also for that we will forever be mortal enemies.

 

___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”.  -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
Back to top Go down
individualized
Tower
Tower
individualized

Posts : 5737
: 6982
Join date : 2011-11-03
Location : The Stars

RM and value Empty
PostSubject: Re: RM and value   RM and value Icon_minitimeMon Oct 28, 2013 11:25 pm

Pezer wrote:
Nietzsche solved that one. The "will" is a name for the stupid animal which one would look at no further, which looking is making. The will to power, well... How do you decieve that? It might be the only platonic idea in the Topus Uranus, and it obviously destroys it. "One is only will to power when one is strong."
Yes.

On a long enough time-line the question renders itself moot, of course.

 

___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”.  -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
Back to top Go down
James S Saint
rational metaphysicist
rational metaphysicist


Posts : 244
: 270
Join date : 2011-12-26

RM and value Empty
PostSubject: Re: RM and value   RM and value Icon_minitimeTue Oct 29, 2013 2:15 am

Capable;
James S Saint wrote:
.. and I still haven't the slightest notion as to what makes you think that RM has anything to do with Christianity.
..and I still believe that you understand almost nothing of RM.
Back to top Go down
individualized
Tower
Tower
individualized

Posts : 5737
: 6982
Join date : 2011-11-03
Location : The Stars

RM and value Empty
PostSubject: Re: RM and value   RM and value Icon_minitimeTue Oct 29, 2013 2:17 am

James S Saint wrote:
Capable;
James S Saint wrote:
.. and I still haven't the slightest notion as to what makes you think that RM has anything to do with Christianity.
..and I still believe that you understand almost nothing of RM.
That may very well be true, that I understand almost nothing about it. But I want to understand it, and I am trying.

 

___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”.  -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
Back to top Go down
James S Saint
rational metaphysicist
rational metaphysicist


Posts : 244
: 270
Join date : 2011-12-26

RM and value Empty
PostSubject: Re: RM and value   RM and value Icon_minitimeTue Oct 29, 2013 2:44 am

Quote :
RM is the final nail in the coffin for humanity. You should be proud, James. It's truly a beautiful thing you've done. (not saying the work wasn't inevitable anyway, and you've played your part in the grand procession of Fate)...

You've contributed to make dying infinitely painless. And for that I love you, and also for that we will forever be mortal enemies.
That very seriously doesn't sound like "trying to understand".
Back to top Go down
individualized
Tower
Tower
individualized

Posts : 5737
: 6982
Join date : 2011-11-03
Location : The Stars

RM and value Empty
PostSubject: Re: RM and value   RM and value Icon_minitimeTue Oct 29, 2013 6:35 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Quote :
RM is the final nail in the coffin for humanity. You should be proud, James. It's truly a beautiful thing you've done. (not saying the work wasn't inevitable anyway, and you've played your part in the grand procession of Fate)...

You've contributed to make dying infinitely painless. And for that I love you, and also for that we will forever be mortal enemies.
That very seriously doesn't sound like "trying to understand".
No, that is exactly what "trying to understand" sounds like.

 

___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”.  -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
Back to top Go down
individualized
Tower
Tower
individualized

Posts : 5737
: 6982
Join date : 2011-11-03
Location : The Stars

RM and value Empty
PostSubject: Re: RM and value   RM and value Icon_minitimeTue Oct 29, 2013 6:37 pm

Note that "the final nail in the coffin of humanity" is not an expression indicating the END of humanity. it means: something new will now come from this. Things are different, the world is changed, nothing will ever be the same again.


Now we get to start building.

 

___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”.  -N

“A man is not great if he is not small, and he is not small if he is not great. Concepts flirt with the loss of their significance in the oscillation between ambiguous states, and this is in part the function and purpose of concepts.” -Primer on Meaning
Back to top Go down
Arcturus Descending
arrow
arrow
Arcturus Descending

Posts : 293
: 307
Join date : 2011-12-07
Location : Hovering amidst a battle of Wills

RM and value Empty
PostSubject: Re: RM and value   RM and value Icon_minitimeTue Nov 05, 2013 12:52 pm

Pezer

Quote :
Nietzsche solved that one. The "will" is a name for the stupid animal which one would look at no further, which looking is making.
Can you explain what he meant by that?


Quote :
The will to power, well... How do you decieve that?
Perhaps one is more deceived by IT...or by one's perception of it.


Quote :
"One is only will to power when one is strong."
I don't think I go along with that. But perhaps you're defining power as meaning tyrannical power. Just as there can be no "real" courage without fear, can there be any "real" will to power without weakness?
But perhaps I am wrong.

 

___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
Back to top Go down
Arcturus Descending
arrow
arrow
Arcturus Descending

Posts : 293
: 307
Join date : 2011-12-07
Location : Hovering amidst a battle of Wills

RM and value Empty
PostSubject: Re: RM and value   RM and value Icon_minitimeTue Nov 05, 2013 1:05 pm

Capable


Quote :
Living is a state that the christian knows nothing about, because he's decided it's preferable to merely exist.
One has to be a christian to adopt that attitude toward life?
I don't consider myself to be a christian anymore but when I was one, that was not my attitude and rest assured that it is the attitude of all christians - many yes, who are drowning in their beliefs and afraid to live without a god or a religious structure. But you're painting all christians without any backbone and one might say that many non-christians live their lives in this way...merely existing.


Quote :
He wishes only to experience indiscriminately.
Laughing That is an individual thing - one can say that of an atheist or an agnostic too, depending upon their essence or substance.


Quote :
That might have worked well for the first few generations, when the burden of life was so great as to make any kind of respite, no matter the cost, seem like a blessing.
You'll have to explain that to me, if you will. On what planet does any great burden appear to be a blessing, except to an embicile.


Quote :
But fast forward 2000 years, and we see instead the end of man, the final "'What is a star?'—thus asks the last man, and he blinks" of consciousness.
And what does the last man hear......of consciousness?

 

___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




RM and value Empty
PostSubject: Re: RM and value   RM and value Icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
RM and value
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Before The Light :: Storm :: Logic-
Jump to: