My Kinda Christian

religion is a goddamn virus and the sooner it dies the better.

but obviously i don’t want some communist antheism either, because such a place simply substitutes the government for the god. it’s still religious. communist regimes are even more religious than theocracies.

thus i am quite skeptical of any defense of religion, because i see how that contributes to the formation of an eventual world communist government. 1984 explains this very well. there are very few actual atheists, most of them are simply religious in another even worse way. which explains why we often hate atheists even more than we hate crazy religious fanatics.

this fucking species is so goddamn stupid and unevolved it’s going to take thousands of years for a little kernel of sanity to appear within it en mass. i don’t have that fucking long to wait. it’s a slow process and follows rules of existential evolution that no one has really theorized yet.

persona gods as projections of our valuing and as attractor points for moments of true reality encounter in ways that would otherwise remain closed off to us because of the limits of reason and backward derivative thinking, yeah that’s ok with me. but there is no theory or analysis that can explain the difference between that and typical religious belief nor anything that explains how to keep the one from becoming the other. in my view gods are products of language, liminal points as parodites said, thresholds; this is very real, but it is not “religious” at all. philosophy is closer to these liminal gods than any religion will ever be.

so fuck religion, and fuck atheism too when it throws the baby out with the bath water and contributes to the communist world order that is ironically even more religious than are the religious people and societies that the atheists love to hate so much.

Religion as I hold it is a kind of wealth, that one needs to earn.
My gods don't allow much in terms of weak heart, weak will - besides this, Ive been fortunate to be taught about them in the right ways - amoral ways.

Mass religion or slave religion will remain prevalent among people whatever you try, be it tv or Jesus or name any standard before which you can be passive. But I prefer to be more specific about what I condemn - the pearls are usually in the mud. Precisely because there is no Supreme God who would regulate the pearl-tossing.

Religion is just the order of things when humans aren't philosophers, which is always the vat majority, and they aren't completely lawless. Religion is like the canvas of morality where you paint your own form of it. It has limits, but god is a nicely ambivalent term. That was supposed to be my point earlier, but I forgot.

right, personal gods are value structures and must be earned. that’s probably how all religions began. but then that sort of thing ends up becoming an entirely different sort of thing. and as i said, no one can explain how to not have that happen.

so someone needs to philosophize these value structures that are pure logical forms existing liminally in the existentia-metaphysica. then that someone also needs to accurately explain religion from this perspective, so we can finally learn how to keep the one from creating the other.

i suppose i’ll have to work on that eventually.

Capable wrote:

right, personal gods are value structures and must be earned. that’s probably how all religions began. but then that sort of thing ends up becoming an entirely different sort of thing. and as i said, no one can explain how to not have that happen.

I think the Jews showed how that can be prevented. They kept religion and blood somewhat tied, in name absolutely, and this works wonders. The Greeks had a looser form of a similar idea, that you had to be Greek to even be taught about the Olympus. Privilege that can be earned by birth - but this birth gives duties, it is not a free privilege but a partaking of something that goes somewhere in the long run. This is what religion proves constantly, it creates lasting things. In this alone a great value is revealed, though it is now a negative value, it will remain a value most likely, this will to create beyond human lifespans is not going to extinguish. Rather than eradicating mass region, which Im just not gong to be able to do, I wish to flip a switch in it. Turn its massive will beyond human lifespans to a great earthly architecture.

wow fuck I just realized I posted without having read all the real shit discussion of gods.

I think Gods are real in the sense old religiousists say they are real. Actual Gods that manifest in awe-striking ways. Well, as Fixed says, the big ones. That's why Japan is cool, but let's not get into that.

I don't need to explain what they are ontologically, because I believe reality precedes ontological considerations inevitably. Will to power is the only ontology that works, explains. And it doesn't classify anything. It just tells you.

VO is faithful to will to power, and prefers sword to words words words, so koodos and hail and thank you.

But um. Yeah, Maher turned to shit well before Trump. I think Religulous just drained him of his last inspirational genious. He wanted to outdo the Selfish Gene guy and Hitchens and them. And he probably did. Hitchens was never really serious about it, he was just a good Englishman.

Good insight on Islam. The final cogs are clicking for me. It's really all about rules, and thus ruling. By the power of the great cathedral of Constantinople.

Other than these manifestations though, these Gods are also real through objects of worship, like temples or idols. The jewish one is just too beyond to bear any of it. A burning bush is the best we're gonna get.

Quote :

A burning bush is the best we're gonna get.

word

Or even misteries and ceremonies and rituals. Worship itself is a form these gods take, fill.

Nietzsche said he created a bunch, when talking about how Z was an old atheist and never would have. I relate to that.

I don't wanna fuck with any big religion. I just want mine, the Olympian one, recognized and allowed to flourish. The great United States of America will allow me this. And Saturn. Riches and bitches.

And, hopefully, some witches.

so how does one distinguish between a “real god” and some idea in one’s head that they simply ascribe divinity and external reality to?

this is a good question. let me see why.

if i take this cigarette i’m smoking and then take the idea of it, and then imbue that idea wit divinity and claim there is a cigarette god in reality, what am i really doing? i’m creating a mental value structure that begins to extend itself into the world as a system. this system begins to override and overwrite already existing patterns in me and also, through me, in the world around me.

so if i actually did this and really believe it, the cigarette god thing, did i just create a god? sort of yes. i created a liminal point, an attractor point in the existentia-metaphysica, in “reality as such” at the most abstract yet totally tectonically real logical level. obviously no such cigarette god ACTUALLY exists, but for the purposes of the value structure and resulting system that doesn’t matter.

so yeah this is about language, like how creating a ratio causes the units to fall away leaving an objective statement that is not relative nor subjective. this is the beauty of language. and inane have been doing this for a long long time. so that the multitude of these created things conflict and war and a process of natural selection obtains, the will to power pezer mentions. now today we are left with whatever “gods” have survived that process. but then those same gods also have to deal with the derivative systems that came from them, namely religions and hordes of idiots who have no feeling whatsoever for the original moment of god-creation which is a kind of intimate reflection in and understanding of reality as such, fused between man and world. this fusion is also therefore why gods are highly psychological, and why religions are even more prone to psychological conflations, traps, decay.

only an individual person could withstand a god, and only if that person were intimate in that miner if creation of the value structure itself.

i don’t want a religion, i don’t want power. not in that way any ya/ the desire for power via religion is scientology. also communism. as hitchens says it’s a totalitarianism. and beneath any human being worthy of the name “human / being”.

of course religions are also threshers and churn up whatever already exists, and some of the resultant chaos is creative destructions. again it’s an evolutionary natural selective process.

Well but these derivative systems that drain, these "viruses," only cover a latent religiosity that is latent in all people, placed there genealogically. All sorts of Gods exist in this way, from veru fucking horrible to simply sublime.

The Olympian Gods were born for this reason, to clean up the mess, rule the world of Gods and allow an international world of men and women. They are the first acknowledgment of a need and a capacity to reign in the crazies in god world. This reigning in is itself gods.

The only really essencial ones are Zeus, the great God herder, the holder of the scepter, he who will not be told shit. And Dionisos, who tells everyone to chill out.

After there are some good ones, but I really fucking hate Apollo. I'm glad Achilles chopped his head off.

What fucked the whole experiment up for so long was the speed at which Greeks were going. They broke their necks. But the work was done, and they made the world happen.

Only Africans, pre-colonial africans, are pure enough to withstand these Olympians upon meeting them and sort of scoffing. They dance around the fire and play the drum. Indians do too, but their not pure at all. Evil basterds. In a good way lol.

i agree. ppl have this deep religiousity need, it’s psychologicsl to these apes that we are, and it’s somehow also deep in the conscious philosophizing activity. i think fixed is right that it’s about valuing as objectifying and projecting values and valuing types.

but this religiousity need psyche thing is a huge liability. i would like to expunge it, although that’s maybe impossible on a group level, at least right now. in a few thousand more years maybe it will be feasible.

nietzsche wanted everyone to make their own gods, that’s why nietzsche was awesome. no one hated xstainity more than him. but yeah all sort of gods and religions exist to feed this psychological metaphysics need, you’re riggt about that. nice point

" in a few thousand more years maybe it will be feasible. "

That's the ticket. Zarathustra is a patient man.

Nietzsche wanted... Lol, the superman. He would never recomend anything to anyone other than to overcome and self-overcome.

all of life tries to expand itself “, it’s self value, over and into the world.

i see gods like this, we are trying to expand our self valuing into the world of truth. like spiders and the webs they spin.

spiders don’t need gods because spiders don’t access the category of truth like we do. our world is nature plus truth categories. hence... gods are made.

I don't know. Many Gods, including many I like, offer nothing close to truth.

Yes, all life tries to expand itself. And Gods are life. And all we are is this game of life.

Some of us are more adept than others.

i’m not much interested in anything that isn’t close to truth. but maybe that’s just me.

Truf is the best of all, the gem of life.

The prize for us, at the pinnacle, who faught for it.

yep. some real marilyn manson meets iggy shit.

Capable wrote:

so how does one distinguish between a “real god” and some idea in one’s head that they simply ascribe divinity and external reality to?

To me that appears almost like a physics problem, like how one distinguishes between blanks and live rounds. A real god, once you make the contact, will represent a significant system of pressures, quickly and racially change all kinds of things in and outside, and you won't be able to just let go of the god. A false god will just be a thought.

Note that I do not recognize any external reality; all physics is happening inside of the web of self-valuings interconnectedness. Its not less real thereby, just not external to the self-valuing fabric in which our consciousness arises.

Everything that is important is in part internal. Thats what its importance means.

Quote :

this is a good question. let me see why.

if i take this cigarette i’m smoking and then take the idea of it, and then imbue that idea wit divinity and claim there is a cigarette god in reality, what am i really doing? i’m creating a mental value structure that begins to extend itself into the world as a system. this system begins to override and overwrite already existing patterns in me and also, through me, in the world around me.

so if i actually did this and really believe it, the cigarette god thing, did i just create a god? sort of yes. i created a liminal point, an attractor point in the existentia-metaphysica, in “reality as such” at the most abstract yet totally tectonically real logical level. obviously no such cigarette god ACTUALLY exists, but for the purposes of the value structure and resulting system that doesn’t matter.

Certainly the love of the cigarette is real, and not just external. Also the compulsion it creates in the smoker I not external. But to make a cigarette into a god would require a lot of rituals where you incubate the god - a god can be created, but not without there already being the materials for it, much like a baby can be created but not without the materials for it.

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so yeah this is about language, like how creating a ratio causes the units to fall away leaving an objective statement that is not relative nor subjective. this is the beauty of language. and inane have been doing this for a long long time. so that the multitude of these created things conflict and war and a process of natural selection obtains, the will to power pezer mentions. now today we are left with whatever “gods” have survived that process. but then those same gods also have to deal with the derivative systems that came from them, namely religions and hordes of idiots who have no feeling whatsoever for the original moment of god-creation which is a kind of intimate reflection in and understanding of reality as such, fused between man and world. this fusion is also therefore why gods are highly psychological, and why religions are even more prone to psychological conflations, traps, decay.

Thats the same with knowledge; we are left with whatever was able to withstand other attempts at establishing  knowledge. Of course it is true with much of evolution. We are left with the strongest gods, the gods most fitting, literally, to this reality; and this works both ways. We are also left with the reality most fitting to the gods that have survived. In order to change worlds, one can change the ways to gods operate on them, just like one can make physical changes to change a purely physical environment.

Gods are like forces behind human mass behaviour, like the elementary forces transposed from the dead onto the living. Hence also why humans die so easily for their gods - these are the realities that remind them deep down that self-valuing is not at heart conditional to life, that its power defines the quality of life and death.

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only an individual person could withstand a god, and only if that person were intimate in that miner if creation of the value structure itself.

I think one tribe can withstand another tribes god, with simple counterforce.
Why for example someone walking with Odin will not be easily influenced by an Abrahamic god - what ultimately makes for laws here is the hard criterion of taste, which is at the very depth of things.

agreed.

damn, yes.

Actually, I would say it was taste that brought the Abrahamic God into the European world. The Romans suddenly noticed Him and His ridiculous amount of power and beyondness and weren't humble enough, perhaps it was not yet possible to be humble enough, to accept that it is a God only to be worshipped by His chosen people.

The lesson from the old testament for non Jews is basically that it's probably a good idea just to get along with them, do business and such.

I give my full consent for you to use even the Olympian Gods in your... project (lol, pro-ject dating back to the ancient aztecs).

You can have that entire sandbox.

Just don't expect me to actually embrace it. Philosophers have no jurisdiction.

Ave!

Lol, maybe you can let me be Satan, I would kill it!

Up to you.