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PostSubject: Sexual Hate   Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:50 pm

Is this true, "It takes a certain amount of hate for the self to have love for something that is other."?

Or, "It takes some hate for ones own sex to have passion for the other sex."

 

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PostSubject: Re: Sexual Hate   Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:09 pm

Abstract wrote:
Is this true, "It takes a certain amount of hate for the self to have love for something that is other."?
Not hate, rather relativizing. If one loves the self to the maximum degree, there is no space for love of another. Artists are known to be assholes for this reason. Picasso is the love of the self, not love of art but pure vanity, creative genius for the sake of genius.

Quote :
Or, "It takes some hate for ones own sex to have passion for the other sex."
I find it confusing that you would think that... but I can't refute it. Do you really think so or are you just throwing it out here because you can pull of the logic?

 

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PostSubject: Re: Sexual Hate   Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:22 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:

I find it confusing that you would think that... but I can't refute it. Do you really think so or are you just throwing it out here because you can pull of the logic?
It is something i thought up while i was stoned... of course it seemed profound at the time.

I think of how it would seem that in order to not be bisexual or gay one must have a distaste for the appearances of their own sex. So if not hate some level of sexual-self dislike.

 

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"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates
"Nature herself has imprinted on the minds of all the idea of God." -Cicero
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain an idea without necessarily believing it." -Aristotle
"I have gained this by philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law." -Aristotle
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PostSubject: Re: Sexual Hate   Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:57 pm

Abstract wrote:
Is this true, "It takes a certain amount of hate for the self to have love for something that is other."?

Or, "It takes some hate for ones own sex to have passion for the other sex."

How could a hatred of self bring one to love another or the other? Perhaps you can use the terms 'loss of ego' or 'detachment from self'. These can eventually lead one to love another or self in a constructive real way but you can't love with a heart full of or half-way full of hate. It's like trying to put a square peg into a circle.

I think that you may be speaking more in line with 'self denial' especially with your second quote. But i may be wrong here. At any rate, even self-denial may have nothing to do with self-hate unless one is a masochist and not self-aware/conscious of the reasons for denial.

But true love, whether love to one's self or to another, requires self-denial - which isn't hate. It's just delaying one's own gratification for the sake of the other - within reason and balance of course. It's a form of subjugation but for a common good.

Quote :
I think of how it would seem that in order to not be bisexual or gay one must have a distaste for the appearances of their own sex. So if not hate some level of sexual-self dislike.
Isn't that sort of like swimming against the tide? That isn't following the 'natural' flow or order of who one is, is it? Can you actually force the issue? Wouldn't that be a form of masochism and self-hate? It certainly wouldn't be self-acceptance and real self-love flows from self-acceptance as does real love flow also from acceptance.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Sexual Hate   Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:15 pm

Fixed Cross

Quote :
Not hate, rather relativizing. If one loves the self to the maximum degree, there is no space for love of another.
Perhaps that would only depend on what you meant by the 'maximum degree'. Is that necessarily a negative thing - like loving one's self in such a complete egotistical and narcissistic way where all is excluded? Loving one's self to the maximum degree may also mean love in its totality, to the degree to which one ought to and still be humble and real about it.

Quote :
Artists are known to be assholes for this reason. Picasso is the love of the self, not love of art but pure vanity, creative genius for the sake of genius.
How do you know this? Perhaps its just something much deeper that drives the artists who seems to be only all about love of self ....like their answering to a much higher call...isn't part of that what it is which calls you to your value ontology? We're all human and have our daemons within but they are not necessarily negative and selfish. It's just our perceptions of them which may be wrong.

I wouldn't be so sure that Picasso's creative genius was simply for the sake of genius. Perhaps he didn't even see the full picture but anyway...we're all human, aren't we?

 

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Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


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PostSubject: Re: Sexual Hate   Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:36 pm

VaerosTanarg wrote:
It's like trying to put a square peg into a circle.
which can be done if the circle is big enough Very Happy



 

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PostSubject: Re: Sexual Hate   Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:07 pm

Abstract wrote:
VaerosTanarg wrote:
It's like trying to put a square peg into a circle.
which can be done if the circle is big enough Very Happy


Evil or Very Mad Damn, I didn't even think of that.lol
Ah, but then again, look at that square peg within that circle?
Doesn't it seem to be a bit off - a bit unbalanced - at least just a bit wobbly?
Not a perfect fit, correct - not that anything has to be a perfect fit.

Anyway, this is what we silly humans usually try to do - fit square pegs into circles.
I've changed my mind. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. What is normal in this life but anything that goes - providing someone is not hurt by it.


 

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Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Sexual Hate   Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:42 pm

Hate and love are two universes, completely separate and independent from one another, despite what they say. I never hated any woman that I loved, though I have hated women I have fucked. I also never fucked any woman that I loved.

 

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Nisus ait, "Dine hunc ardorem mentibus addunt,
Euryale, an sua cuique deus fit dira cupido?"

Have the gods set this ruling passion in my heart,
or does each man's furious passion become his god?
- Virgil.


It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must
from time to time be present.-- Antonin Artaud
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PostSubject: Re: Sexual Hate   Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:46 pm

"Not hate, rather relativizing. If one loves the self to the maximum degree, there is no space for love of another. Artists are known to be assholes for this reason. Picasso is the love of the self, not love of art but pure vanity, creative genius for the sake of genius. "


There are two kinds of love. One is where a little stream empties itself willingly into a greater ocean. Another kind of love is when the greater ocean receives, graciously, the little stream, and takes it up into itself. Artists, tyrants, great men, are all very capable of this later kind of love. But the former, no. This later love belongs to men. It is without malice. The former belongs to women, and is usually blended in with a little envy and contempt. Sometimes a fluke of nature produces genius in a woman and she is capable of the later, genius-love, and then she must become a man eating whore who cannot separate her art of war and her art of sex. In a similar way, sometimes a man is born with an under-developed scrote sack and is only capable of the kind of love which leads to him emptying himself in a greater nature, after the manner of women. Thus, he becomes what we call a how do you say- fag, and recapitulates with another man the whole emptying of himself and filling up of another ego-dynamic. If such a fag could find that exceedingly rare genius-woman, perhaps he would be able to psychologically complete the same emptying and "giving of himself"process with her.

 

___________
A sik þau trûðu


Nisus ait, "Dine hunc ardorem mentibus addunt,
Euryale, an sua cuique deus fit dira cupido?"

Have the gods set this ruling passion in my heart,
or does each man's furious passion become his god?
- Virgil.


It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must
from time to time be present.-- Antonin Artaud
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