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 Is Trump caving?

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PostSubject: Is Trump caving?    Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:23 pm

Trump's support of this worthless "Ryancare" bill is highly suspect to me. Ryan says no one can oppose it, so apparently we don't have a right to debate or deviate at all from his pet bill (so much for democracy) and then Trump also came out in support.

The bill doesn't even repeal Obamacare. Wtf. Sign a fucking bill that says "repeal all 20,000 pages of the Affordabe Care Act, effective immediately." See that wasn't so hard.

Socialized medicine and payouts to huge insurance corporations, that is apparently the best we can hope for now. What a fucking joke.

I wonder if "they" (deep state, establishment globalists) finally got to Trump with some kind of threat. If so, then Trump needs to announce it publicly and say "fuck you, my life is sacrifice if needed, but I will not abandon my principles, my promises or the American people." That is what any of us would do in his place.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:26 pm

The NSA has openly, though in a thinly veiled manner, threatened with an attack on the WH, that was just what we see.
If Trump still manages to turn this around, his main obstacle will have been oveecome. If not, he will be quite futile, and we'll eventually have war, probably.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:59 pm

Trump said the bill was malleable.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:12 pm

Yes, but it's such a shitty bill that doesn't even do what it claims to do (repeal), that I'm surprised he is willing to work with it at all. Obamacare was a payout to insurance companies in order to institute socialized medicine through the back door, by 20,000 pages of regulations that basically destroyed the health insurance market. I'd obviously like all that to be.. repealed.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:42 pm

Clearly, the strategy is to play both sides. It's likely the only strategy that would not blow up the entire process. And yet, it's full of risk.
I can only expect them to have planned this out quite well, the back and forth of concessions and demands that are going to be made.
Trump likes to get a process going before he weighs in.

https://youtu.be/gjGtr2AREtw?t=3m24s

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:24 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Clearly, the strategy is to play both sides. It's likely the only strategy that would not blow up the entire process. And yet, it's full of risk.
I can only expect them to have planned this out quite well, the back and forth of concessions and demands that are going to be made.
Trump likes to get a process going before he weighs in.

https://youtu.be/gjGtr2AREtw?t=3m24s

So indeed he hasnt caved. He just let the politics play out and came back to his original position, that Obamacare is shit, but without having to work with 7 years of Paul Ryans work, which is a horrible thing to contemplate. Something that guy worked on, for 7 years. Thats bad. Katrina was bad, but thats really, really bad.

When I say Trump hasnt lost I dont mean that nobody else lost, that the American People didnt lose anything - but as far as I can surmise there were only two options save totally revoking the entire insurance program, which were this bill, nor no bill at all.

Repealing Obamacare
does not constitute an actual plan. There were too many interpretations of what that should mean.
Now there is one less. An important burden is shed: the Republican advocates of insurance monopolies have lost their leverage.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:45 pm

Yes, well said. You have nailed his strategy very well, it seems.

Imagine you want to take down the insurance and pharma mega-monopoly control in healthcare... how would you do it? You can't just come outright and say that's what you want to do, for obvious reasons it is useful to be more strategic than that, more... Bannonian.

You are probably right, Trump just followed this stupid Ryan bill to its death, happy to help it along the way, and playing the political game superbly so that now Ryan and all the other (not so) secret fucktard globalist nazis can't openly accuse Trump of sabotaging their pet project Obamacare 2.0. They are disarmed, temporarily anyway. And because they have no one to blame but themselves (they can't blame Trump, and they can't blame the DFL, and they can't (openly) blame the more really conservative members of their own party) they are forced into a compromising position.

Brilliant.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:13 pm

Now would be the time to republish your health care idea (maybe PH) and perhaps include some new writing. I'd be happy to participate.

I think it's our duty to help the conservative spirit along here.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:16 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Now would be the time to republish your health care idea (maybe PH) and perhaps include some new writing. I'd be happy to participate.

I think it's our duty to help the conservative spirit along here.

Yes, I have to work up these ideas from the foundations. They should come from the broader writings on economics, I think.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:27 pm

That makes sense.

I guess we start by relating money to selfvaluing in a biological sense - how can money serve that, while not being impeded in its own capitalistic framework.

The system of Europe where the state owned the hospitals and kept the prices low was pretty decent in the 80's, 90's, still is compared to the US systems so far - but it's not how an American market could be controlled. It's the opposite nature of an invention economy.

But I suppose this really ties in with the way we deal with old people. I personally find it ludicrous that old peoples homes exist, they are like graves, they smell like it. They are in themselves already proof of decayed selfvaluing, where people cant see that theyre allowing an money generating machine of death to devour their relatives. Its kind of the obverse of Islam. And that relates to this shocking moment of the beginning of true psychology that was ruptured by the immediate re introduction of god from an ancient perspective. It's a tragic story. It's tragic because Islam is stone cold versus psychologizing, theres no space for redemption. It has to be fought out in the open, almost as if the human spirit wasnt ready to move into the depths. Something intervened at a very early sage and very pervasively, like as if it had lain dormant ready to strike whenever resistance lowered.

But perhaps the culture that is being replaced at its basis of faith can still go into the heights, and from there, dig into its roots. Its roots will have improved. But that moment is lost, where god was dead and humanity was about to be born. Tragic, indeed - is there a resolution to tragedy that isn't dishonest or... mundane thus irrelevant to people of spirit? I feel there's a way to surpass it. Perhaps that way is to use it to break open something even realer. It can't be the end-all, because there is no end-all.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:08 pm

Meanwhile,

Breitbart wrote:
On the same day that the House of Representatives canceled its vote on Ryancare, Alabama Rep. Mo Brooks filed a simple one-line bill to repeal Obama’s signature health care law.

The Huntsville Republican titled the bill ‘Obamacare Repeal Act.” It is short and to the point, AI.com reported.

“Effective as of Dec. 31, 2017, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act is repealed, and the provisions of law amended or repealed by such Act are restored or revived as if such Act had not been enacted,” the bill reads.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:49 am

Fixed Cross wrote:
Meanwhile,

Breitbart wrote:
On the same day that the House of Representatives canceled its vote on Ryancare, Alabama Rep. Mo Brooks filed a simple one-line bill to repeal Obama’s signature health care law.

The Huntsville Republican titled the bill ‘Obamacare Repeal Act.” It is short and to the point, AI.com reported.

“Effective as of Dec. 31, 2017, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act is repealed, and the provisions of law amended or repealed by such Act are restored or revived as if such Act had not been enacted,” the bill reads.


Fuck. Yes.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:00 pm

Nice, our friend agrees, and goes into wonderful depth.


 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:06 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Nice, our friend agrees, and goes into wonderful depth.


I don't entirely agree with his analysis here. Trump publicly threatening the Freedom Caucus over it objections to the shitty Obamacare 2.0 is counter-productive. I can't see it as part of some super-strategic plan on his part to woo the center left and right by making it look like he is opposed to the real conservatives... and if that is Trump's plan then I can assure you he will lose the next election.

His real supporters are pissed right now. I know, Ive been reading comments and hearing them on the radio. They are fucking pissed off that 1) Trump tried (ostensibly) to push through this fucking garbage bill that would basically cement Obamacare into law permanently rather than repeal it, and 2) he is bullying the actual people who want to actually follow through on the promise of getting rid of the monstrosity of Obamacare.

Trump miscalculated here. I don't care if he really does win over some moderates and manages to get another draft of ShitObozoFuckYouInTheAss"Care" 2.0 passed. Fuck that fucking bullshit. Just repeal the goddamn thing from start to finish, what the fuck are you waiting for? He might end up passing something with all this negotiation, but in the process will basically water the thing down to being meaningless thus squandering his chances of actually doing something productive.

And remember, Trump has a mandate from the country: he cannot fail unless he abandons those people. If Trump had simply supported a one-line bill "ACA is fully repealed", and the GOP would have to get behind him because that is what their own fucking voters want over 90%+ of them, then the Democrats would be forced to oppose it and they would be the obstructionists and the ones catching the heat from voters. In that situation, the bill would still probably fail due to Dems blocking it, but that would basically be the death sentence for the DFL.

I think Trump really fucked up on this one. Maybe he just sent that tweet in an angry moment without thinking it through, or maybe he really isn't that conservative and doesn't give a shit about actually repealing ShitObozoFuckYouInTheAss"Care".

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:12 pm

Bottom line, the Freedom Caucus were the only ones standing up for the right thing to do here. They stood on principle of simply throwing Obama's shitstorm fuckhole of a bill into the fucking toilet where it belongs. And guess what, that is what the American people also want.

So Trump screwed this one big time. I support him, but I am not going to pull punches here. He fucked it up. And there may be no recovering for him from this error. The ONLY reason he is where he is is because of the mass voter support, real American people who know that Obamacare needs to die a terribly and painful, but fast, death. They know because they live under it, whereas Trump doesnt.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:14 pm

Yeah, is Trump draining the swamp here? Fuck no, he looks to be becoming the fucking swamp. And it has only been two fucking months.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:14 pm

I'm seriously fucking pissed off about what he did.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:16 pm

His tweet: "The Freedom Caucus will hurt the entire Republican agenda if they don't get on the team, & fast. We must fight them, & Dems, in 2018!"

This isn't about the "Republican agenda" you fuck, this is about the American agenda.

I hope he makes serious amends for this, and very soon. Otherwise he will lose all core support, including mine.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:11 am

"But at the end of the day, the bill mainly just replaced a massive and reckless new federal government entitlement program built by Democrats with a massive and reckless new federal government entitlement program built by Republicans."

Yeah, exactly.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/30/nuclear-option-ryancare-opponents-served-constituents-not-party-bosses/

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:16 am

I think Trump is a pure pragmatist, he used the conservatives to get elected. Now what does he do? He is sort of conservative himself, but mostly doesn't have any true deep convictions, but he is quite smart and knows much about the problems plaguing America economically if not ideologically.

So he tries to get this GOP-care Obama-lite passed, not realizing why half of America opposes what Obama did. This isn't just about controlling costs a little bit, taxes and deficits, as Trump seems to think. Calling subsidies 'tax credits' isn't what this is about either. The average American spirit-will intelligence is quite perceptive, and picked up its ears over the last decade. It lives under Obama Fascism. It knows the pain and soul-death, and it elected Trump to put that shit to rest, permanently.

But Trump doesn't understand that. I honestly don't think he understands it. The depth of rage of the American people, the true objections at the level of rational principle. He plays against these as a salesman and actor, as a skilled rhetorician, but otherwise I can't see that he shared those convictions very much himself. He might grasp that socialism is a fucking failure, that we don't need that Venezuela shit here, but I think Trump has very mild values on all of this, he is a business person and is thus very shrewd in his thinking of analyzing situations for advantage and how to negotiate, such as how he riled up China with his Taiwan stuff and other comments and now is going to slowly roll that back a little and thus gain leverage against them without really conceding anything... that is excellent tactics, Trump is the master at that sort of thing. But when it comes to the philosophical levels, he seems lost.

And this is the real problem, because most of his supporters voted for him precisely out of their allegiance to the philosophical levels, even if they don't know how to articulate that.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:20 am

Empty pragmatism is the risk we take when merging politics with economics in the age of empty global-Marxist-capitalism. Yes, power needs to be objective, deceptive, pragmatic... absolutely yes. But power also needs to have a heart, and to know when to sacrifice principle for the short gain and when not to sacrifice principle for anything. This is playing at the greater level of the existential, which is from where Trump's real support came. He better realizes this, and fast, if indeed he is for real.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:22 am

"Either one of these federal health care Ponzi schemes would have hastened the bankruptcy of America. And the only thing that would come of either one is a bunch of politicians patting themselves on the back, feeling virtuous and proclaiming to the world how generous they are about giving other people’s money to the poor.

Yeah, real sainthood material there."



Lol.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:34 am

Ok I have calmed a little.

What I think most likely happened is that Trump got some very bad advice. He seems to trust Ryan for some reason, probably others who also want to see Trump fail. This is the Revenge of the Establishment.


Trump may simply have been played, and he got angry. We know he has somewhat of a temper. Although he also has the surprising ability to keep his cool under pressure. But this may be a time he lost it.

Does he really just hate to lose this much, that he would turn on his own core base and those in the party who actually support his pledge to repeal and replace? Does Trump think we are too stupid to realize that RyanCare isn't actually repeal and replace?

I honestly don't know. But I can't come up with any reasonable defenses for Trump here, therefore I choose to conclude that he was played somehow by the establishment. They are plotting his downfall, and they have to make it look like he failed on his own.

Maybe Trump just got invested in this RyanCare bill too much to back down, and Ryan and the other Satan's Minions knew this would happen, and then when it failed and Trump exploded in anger at actually failing at something he wanted to win on, they pulled a Wormtongue on him and whispered "Freedom Caucus" into his ear.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:23 am

Yeah, this place is going to shit. Too many Americans are shit, and the MSM is shit, Congress is shit, big business has sold out truth for a quick buck siding up with MSM and globalist ideology.

Trump has the weight of all this on his shoulders. The fake news/deepstate plot against him with all the stupid Russia crap is going to spill over, they are gearing up for it. Too many people believe it despite there being absolutely no evidence; too many people believe Trump "made up" that Obama surveilled him, despite that this clearly did occur. Ideology and emotional vindication, as Fixed said, are winning the day. Empty virtue signaling replaces reason.

What to do now? Watch it all come down? Well fuck that.

Truth will still assert itself, and the only reason Trump won is because things have gotten this bad. If Trump can't fix them, someone else will. If too many people abandon their minds then the power of that souldeath will grow to the level of self-collapse as truth purges that nonsense from history. That is exactly what happens: errors and illusions abound, and some concentrate together in little novalue-clusters, trying to value themselves into existence out of some mere will to power, and... when they cannot do that, because they do not have any real self-valuing to speak of, no "earth" in their bodies or souls, they go rabid and attempt to seize power like a cancer.

Those cancers are now ganging up across the spectrum, sensing their own 'end times'. Truth is gearing up for some seriously cool shit, and they feel it. All this souldeath mindrape are outdated, useless, non-entity novaluers. How could something like a Clontingoo exist, let along persist over time? Short answer: it cannot. Their efforts to reverse truth and reason are coming to a head, and it doesnt matter that so many mindless zombies believe them. That literally does.not.fucking.matter.one.little.bit. Truth doesn't give a shit.


It is set up precisely like this, that even when truth loses, it wins; even when untruth wins, it loses. This is what history reveals, that even when error and unreality triumphs all this ends up doing is exposing a certain chain of errors and lies to the light of reality, burning them away as if in a crucible and giving rise to the precise opposite, the truth which had been buried under that error and illusion. We are in the midst of such processes right now.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Is Trump caving?    Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:28 am

Lies and souldeath cannot stand the light of day, they cannot reason, they cannot self-value. So even when they "win", like Marxism for example, they only end up creating from their own putrid decay and compost-rot new life, new truth grown into the world. Haha. What a cosmic fucking joke against all these motherfuckers.

 

___________
"Since the old God has abdicated, I shall rule the world from now on." --Nietzsche

"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI

Odinwar <---[truth]---> Jeraz

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