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James S Saint
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PostSubject: Life ≡    Life ≡  Icon_minitimeFri Jan 13, 2012 9:04 am

Utilizing the Black Box model and method one can formalize a set of components necessary for any life. Life, unlike other forms of particulate existence assumes purpose and intent, specifically the purpose of sustaining itself. Other existences must also maintain themselves in order to exist, but unlike life, they do not use such complex means to obtain the materials required to sustain the harmony of their functioning, their "Self-Harmony".

Life ≡ Siau

_[Power Input]_S. Spirit; Drive/Effort/Energy
_[Output]_____I. Influence; motor/muscle/speech
_[Input]______A. Awareness; senses; sight/sound/touch/smell/taste/movement
_[Function]____U. Understanding; response algorithms; instincts, emotions, cognition

Life must endeavor to obtain, repair, or replace each of those components in order to sustain its ability to survive. Natural life generally endeavors to slightly enhance each of them. Strategic life, goes all out to empower each of them as far as it can manage; "Will-to-Power".

Deciding which aspect to attend to, how much, and in what order is actually a complex algorithm. Most life manages the decisions merely due to being so limited in resources as to make the decisions simple; eat, learn, think, and influence when their is opportunity. If given too many resources, homosapian can strive to derive a formal process so as to keep the optimum balance, but generally, he merely grabs the first thing available with an emphasis on increasing influence.

The value in every life is founded upon maintaining those four elements of life in optimum balance. Life grows due to those four elements being challenged as insufficient. Homosapian gets so complex as to utilize the efforts of other lives who are attempting the same thing such as to form societies with a variety of structures. But each and every effort he makes is merely to enhance those four elements to the point of certain immutable balanced harmony, even before he knew that is what he was doing. Homosapian doesn't learn quickly, especially when some have caught onto the idea of enhancing their own survival by disabling those elements in all of the others. The resulting confusion takes much, much longer to work out than the comparatively simple design and original intent.


That which enhances each component of Life is of positive value.
That which disrupts each component of Life is of negative value.

At any one moment, the particular value assignment for each component and for each life is a function of the balance of the others and the situation in which the whole is having to deal. The value of the second helping of cake is almost always less than the first.
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PostSubject: Re: Life ≡    Life ≡  Icon_minitimeFri Jan 13, 2012 10:30 am

Excellent James, thank you. This is the sort of thing I was really asking for.
I do believe that there is a fifth element missing - meaning.
This is the true ground of value, and it is a subjectively understood thing.

To what end does the organism survive, and perform all these complex actions and interactions? Because only the type of organism would survive that would find a positive value in survival.

This is how we really define value.
So the values you define are derivative of this subjectivist positive judgment, which takes a much more -- poetic approach to describe so as to effectively apprehend.

Philosophy can not be all-logical, since a true philosophy, a thought-paradigm, predicates logic as the medium for inference.

what may be placed below function in the list is what Nietzsche understood as the feeling of power which he equated to the will-to-power. If this is mastered in as technical terms you have attributed to the four former, all visible, empirical functions, then all the former can be implicitly controlled, which is to say, as an integrated dynamic hierarchy. Belief in "god" is always been to this end, culminating in methods such as "kung fu", as mentioned before.

Ideally such a medium predicates the terms on which the four levels of actions exist separately by providing a symbolic language operated by mans specific capacities.

Science has as a capacity outgrown the capacity to bestow meaning on ourselves. Since we are able to create object of power-greater value than what may be possible of use to any personal life, I see this as the main problem in creating such a fifth element.

 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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James S Saint
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PostSubject: Re: Life ≡    Life ≡  Icon_minitimeFri Jan 13, 2012 11:15 am

Actually, your fifth element is the very foundation of the first element, "Spirit/Effort/Drive".

No rational effort can be made without having a goal or purpose in mind. Purpose is what distinguishes mere logic from rationality.

Now when it comes to that "highest goal", the pinnacle of passion which then gives priority to all other desires, the issue is merely defining the maximum possible survival state;

The Purpose == Eternal Joy

That assignment might seem a bit common and also impossible, but not only is it possible, but anything less is actually irrational. To seek that goal, ALL of the components of life must be enhanced to their fullest along with a great deal of social growth as surrounding harmonious support. There must be harmony both inside and out.

Joy is the inner perception of progress, accurate or not. Of course inaccurate perception of progress defeats the actual goal of eternal survival. So inner deception is not usually a good direction to take as it compromises the outer ability to properly respond to opportunities and threats. Entertainment is what we call our means for accomplishing that inner perception of progress even though no actual progress is being made. At times though, such artificial injections of joy from entertainment are very helpful so as to communicate to the inner mind that there is no current need to worry. The functioning of the mind gets pretty complex all by itself.

The strive for eternal life ensures that a stagnate state is never reached which would stabilize weakness and cause complacency.

So by simply aiming ones life toward that highest possible goal, all of the needs of survival and enjoyment of life are properly placed and prioritized. All else being equal, in an evolutionary sense, those who actually have maintained such a goal generation after generation will out survive those who sought for anything else.

In addition, the tendency to attempt domination of others gets a natural governor or regulator built into the entire modality. Any society that forms is merely a reflection of the same components previously mentioned with all of the same concerns. When the people within the society perceive progress, they become the joy of the life defined by the society itself.

Still in addition to that, as it turns out, the only means to actually reach that goal of eternal joy is by means of the maximum affordable (the optimum) momentum of life. That momentum requires the harmony of its components if it is to get maximum performance. When the components within harmonize, progress increases substantially as well as the inner perception of it, the actual joy sensed by the life.

So the end result is that not only is each and every life within the society encouraged to be finely harmonized within itself and sensing the joy of living, but the entire populous is encouraged, not into conflict, but into the maximum fastest paced harmony possible. Any other society attempting to interfere would be about like dropping a match into a black hole - not even a poof.

There really isn't any portion of life that I can't expound on in serious detail as long as that highest priority is the aim.
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PostSubject: Re: Life ≡    Life ≡  Icon_minitimeSat Jan 14, 2012 8:20 am

James S Saint wrote:
Actually, your fifth element is the very foundation of the first element, "Spirit/Effort/Drive".
Exactly, its foundation. But unexplained by it. It can only be explained as sitting on top of the fourth principle at the same time as underlying the first.

Quote :
No rational effort can be made without having a goal or purpose in mind. Purpose is what distinguishes mere logic from rationality.
I prefer to call this "valuing", or more precisely, self-valuing and valuing in terms of self-value.
I believe this to be a more precise and complete designating.

Quote :
Now when it comes to that "highest goal", the pinnacle of passion which then gives priority to all other desires, the issue is merely defining the maximum possible survival state;

The Purpose == Eternal Joy
Alongside with its duration, the measure of the joy is important.
Eternal joy is a strong aim, yes, but the question remains, how great is this joy? To put it simply, we could be speaking of an eternal small joy, instead of to a temporary great one.

A Nietzschean would ask, is joy not always in overcoming suffering? What then is eternal joy if not also eternal suffering?

Quote :
That assignment might seem a bit common and also impossible, but not only is it possible, but anything less is actually irrational. To seek that goal, ALL of the components of life must be enhanced to their fullest along with a great deal of social growth as surrounding harmonious support. There must be harmony both inside and out.
How is it possible, literally, technically?
Do you mean as an organism? If so, how should this be imagined using the current understanding of organism that we have? Should we unlearn what we have learned about the human being, that it is mortal? I remember seeing a book once called "breaking the death habit" speaking of this man living for ten thousand years already being the teacher of many saints including Jesus. Is this anything like you have in mind? I am reaching of course, I have no idea how to conceive of an eternally living and joyful perspective, but stories of them are all around, and they are, even if understood as fictions, powerful presences.

Quote :
Joy is the inner perception of progress, accurate or not. Of course inaccurate perception of progress defeats the actual goal of eternal survival. So inner deception is not usually a good direction to take as it compromises the outer ability to properly respond to opportunities and threats. Entertainment is what we call our means for accomplishing that inner perception of progress even though no actual progress is being made. At times though, such artificial injections of joy from entertainment are very helpful so as to communicate to the inner mind that there is no current need to worry. The functioning of the mind gets pretty complex all by itself.
Exactly. This progress Nietzsche calls the increase of power, or the feeling of increased power. But this definition does not account for the difference between momentary and structural increase.

Quote :
The strive for eternal life ensures that a stagnate state is never reached which would stabilize weakness and cause complacency.

So by simply aiming ones life toward that highest possible goal, all of the needs of survival and enjoyment of life are properly placed and prioritized. All else being equal, in an evolutionary sense, those who actually have maintained such a goal generation after generation will out survive those who sought for anything else.
Again I am not sure how literal to take this. Do you know of people who have attained an age beyond what is considered humanly possible?

Quote :
In addition, the tendency to attempt domination of others gets a natural governor or regulator built into the entire modality. Any society that forms is merely a reflection of the same components previously mentioned with all of the same concerns. When the people within the society perceive progress, they become the joy of the life defined by the society itself.

Still in addition to that, as it turns out, the only means to actually reach that goal of eternal joy is by means of the maximum affordable (the optimum) momentum of life. That momentum requires the harmony of its components if it is to get maximum performance. When the components within harmonize, progress increases substantially as well as the inner perception of it, the actual joy sensed by the life.
I can see that. But the difficult task is to choose and formulate these components. If a human entity is a combination of trillions of affective states, then where does one begin to harmonize the components? I would say this brings us back to kung fu, which utilizes internal organs and the system of glands as components of consciousness. Carl Jung would use psychological archetypes. There are more ways to divide the subject into components. Which way do you propose?

Quote :
So the end result is that not only is each and every life within the society encouraged to be finely harmonized within itself and sensing the joy of living, but the entire populous is encouraged, not into conflict, but into the maximum fastest paced harmony possible. Any other society attempting to interfere would be about like dropping a match into a black hole - not even a poof.

There really isn't any portion of life that I can't expound on in serious detail as long as that highest priority is the aim.
I wonder if you could say something about breathing to this aim. In all the systems that I know of involving harmonizing, it is the central element. Of course, it is the central element in most life itself. It seems a good place to start.

 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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James S Saint
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PostSubject: Re: Life ≡    Life ≡  Icon_minitimeSat Jan 14, 2012 5:37 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
I wonder if you could say something about breathing to this aim. In all the systems that I know of involving harmonizing, it is the central element. Of course, it is the central element in most life itself. It seems a good place to start.
Explaining things in terms of "breath" would basically require starting all over with a different (and less precise) ontology of Life. But since you seem to have a fascination for the topic, and even though you aren't really going to believe me, let me give a short statement from which you could reinvent an ontology in a more Hindu/Judaistic form.

The "prana" or "breath" very, very long ago was the Hindu method of expressing what later in Arabic tongue was expressed as "ha" and was later still, called "the spirit"; the invisible and fundamental essence of any effort by life. But please don't confuse it with "the soul". The soul is a different issue. Prana and Breath are the action, not the item.

In the black box analysis that I provided, Prana and Breath fall into the first component category;

_[Power Input]_S. Spirit; drive/effort/energy - "Prana"/"Breath" (as well as other components of the Hindu breakdown).

I don't recommend designing backwards and thus being just as sloppy as those who were first attempting a clear ontology, but whatever floats your boat.
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PostSubject: Re: Life ≡    Life ≡  Icon_minitimeSat Jan 14, 2012 8:42 pm

This is not a matter of disbelief. I have already made clear I take the challenge you posit very seriously. But what you want to see is extremely difficult to construct for me. It is after all, a theory of everything in concrete terms. Not specific, but still concrete. My mind is not directed towards such an aim, It is very hard to turn it around to it, because I have a lot to include in it that is not at this point translated into concrete terms.

I will have to employ the logic of value ontology with a mathematical exactness to describe the interactions of different valuers, and the world as interference of the efforts of these valuers, e.g. the will to power. Because the value is not predicated directly by a self-valuings nature, only by its acquisition of energy in/onto this nature. This happens along a very rapidly expanding tree of threads to induce and all the while integrate, and I am not sure, to paraphrase, where to stop thinking and to begin acting.

I may quite simply not have been able to muster the momentum alongside the clarity to construct from the value-onto-logical ground up an concrete value-system. I may ask Capables help to create it, -- value ontology first began developing towards application when I began discussing it with him, and this site has not been set up for nothing as a cooperation. He has been known to orient on a more exact, non-metaphorical description of it in terms of reality.

I want also to express that the hostility between Apollo and Dionysus is a brotherly one, held together in the bestowing virtue of Zeus.



 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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James S Saint
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PostSubject: Re: Life ≡    Life ≡  Icon_minitimeSun Jan 15, 2012 1:23 am

I can tell that you are poking at the right bush. Although it is still invisible to you, you can sense its presence. It will remain invisible to you and you will only hear incomprehensible mutterings until you remove your sandals.

Perhaps itemize a list of all of the things that you would want to have with you before you were to be stranded on an island for 20 years. Make absolutely certain that the list is 100% complete because you will never get a chance to update it after your departure. The list is to be handed to and filled by "the gods" who must keep their promise to ensure that everything on the list is truly and completely delivered. The only restriction is that all requested must fit into a 64 cubic foot box.

After you see that the list might be getting a little long, which it certainly should, realize that you can group many objects of concern under a more global heading such as to not only simplify the list, but inherently include any small detailed item that you had not remembered or perhaps had never even conceived. If you don't find something you need once on the island, yet there was a clear category for it, the gods must bring it to you immediately.

At that point, you can reduce the list at the same time as increasing its comprehensive nature. But keep your eye on anything even remotely relevant to your needs and insure there is a category for it. You will not be given a second chance- zero forgiveness for mistakes on your part. Assume nothing. But you cannot merely specify "anything" because the entire set must fit into the box.

A) Anything relating to...
B) Anything relating to...
C) Anything relating to...

And then check that list over and over and over against everything you see around you. Every statement you make, every item you ever reach for, every thought you sense is important, compare to the list. You will get no second chance, no amendments or addendums.

Within that list and within that box, will be the value-ontology that defines your life.
.. else you will lose it.

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James S Saint
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PostSubject: Re: Life ≡    Life ≡  Icon_minitimeSun Jan 15, 2012 5:52 am

"I am not sure, to paraphrase, where to stop thinking and to begin acting."

That is the topic of my next, and last, project.
Presumption and Indecision
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PostSubject: Re: Life ≡    Life ≡  Icon_minitimeWed Jan 18, 2012 10:29 pm

The moment of decision needs to be metaphorized.

 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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James S Saint
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PostSubject: Re: Life ≡    Life ≡  Icon_minitimeThu Jan 19, 2012 6:09 am

Or another word for that is "formulated".

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PostSubject: Re: Life ≡    Life ≡  Icon_minitimeThu Jan 19, 2012 10:05 am

Not quite. What I mean is that an image will be required to 'formulate', or represent it.
As you know words are originally images, and can not both be reduced to a logically exact meaning (i.e. an element in a definitional logic system) and still retain vital real-world meaning.

This is in general my concern with applying definitional logic to the world. It is already a more than significant manipulation to formulate in order to define at all, let alone to construct such formulation into a representative working-model.

Language is kept "pure", true to its root, by using it in metaphor, as metaphor, deliberately. In this way awareness is maintained of what language is, which is necessary, I would speculate, to have to represent as accurately as possible, without "sin".



 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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James S Saint
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PostSubject: Re: Life ≡    Life ≡  Icon_minitimeThu Jan 19, 2012 5:05 pm

Ah, I see.

You meant metaphor, not metaform. Sorry.
To me there is very little significant difference.

But as to the keeping the language pure via metaphor, I would ask that you perhaps consider the Biblical effort to do such a thing. What has come from mere metaphor in regards to religion? How different do you think the world would be if say the Torah had been assembled with a lexicon or dictionary in the appendix? Are you aware of the horrendous number of arguments, conflicts, and wars that have arisen over disputes concerning "what it really meant"?

What can you tell me of Creation and Ahdam from the Torah?
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PostSubject: Re: Life ≡    Life ≡  Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2012 5:03 am

If you can do it without metaphor, I encourage you to do it. But since words are metaphors, there seems to me to be an irreducible gap between language (including pure definitional logic such as mathematics) and experience. Again, if you have found the key do close this gap, I do not mean that you should hold it back. Not at all. But I can only conceive of translating exact definitions into experience through the medium of images. But I concede that these images do not however need to be metaphors as much as directly convey a reality.

I do not place any value in the Torah as definitional material. To this end we have the Tree of Life, which is indeed an image, but not so much of something else, but existing as itself. The Tree only exists as an image, an abstraction of the human experience. So I can see that the moment of decision may be represented visually, yet abstractly.


 

___________
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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James S Saint
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PostSubject: Re: Life ≡    Life ≡  Icon_minitimeTue Jan 24, 2012 7:28 pm

Define precise concepts.
Build from there.
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PostSubject: Re: Life ≡    Life ≡  Icon_minitimeMon Mar 05, 2012 10:59 am

JSS

S. Spirit; Drive/Effort/Energy
_[Output]_____I. Influence; motor/muscle/speech
_[Input]______A. Awareness; senses; sight/sound/touch/smell/taste/movement
_[Function]____U. Understanding; response algorithms; instincts, emotions, cognition

For me, your "A" ought to be a "P" for perception.
Awareness is more 'consciousness" - the way I see it.

 

___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Life ≡    Life ≡  Icon_minitimeMon Mar 05, 2012 11:34 am

Jss...

Quote :
"I am not sure, to paraphrase, where to stop thinking and to begin acting."

Do you remember those times in the hot, hot summer heat when you've been leaning over the cold pool...wanting to dive in but knowing how cold the water will be? You hesitate and hesitate. Where does the moment of decision to act lie?
Why,for me, it lies within the instant of that crescendo of desire - you'll feel it taking you over - which can no more be denied. And you take the leap.


Another way to put it would be - that moment of truth.



 

___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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