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WendyDarling
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:58 pm

lol, ouch! Such patriotism literally pains my eyes.
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:47 am

Hi-D wrote:
lol, ouch!  Such patriotism literally pains my eyes.

Hehehe Capable and I have already discussed that. I am a proud American. (But honestly, the color selections were not intentional.)
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:16 am


I don't want you to change a thing but for the future I'm more of an indigo kind of person. I don't so much like red. If there's no indigo here, I'll take a pretty deeper shade of blue. But red is good for apples and tomatoes, among other things. Very Happy


 

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:27 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:

I don't want you to change a thing but for the future I'm more of an indigo kind of person. I don't so much like red. If there's no indigo here, I'll take a pretty deeper shade of blue. But red is good for apples and tomatoes, among other things.  Very Happy


Well, it will be something else the next time. But no promises as to what.
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:42 pm

Sisyphus



Quote :
Yes, I enjoy viewing waterfalls.  I didn't mean we are waterfalls.  I meant there are waterfalls in most waterways regarding "going with the flow".

But we can be like waterfalls. I think that, in a way, everything that we see in nature, and in the elements,  is also, or can be,  a part of who we are. We can learn about our own emotions by observing nature.



Quote :
But your association is valid, I think.  I will link descending with negative and rising with positive.  The negative emotions I experience just bring me down whereas the positive are uplifting.  I try to release the negative emotions as quickly as I can.  Sometimes it takes more time than is healthy for me.

Well, your way of looking at it is another way. At one point, I was Arcturus Rising and then I became Arcturus Descending.
A descent can also be a positive. I chose that designation so that I could go more deeper, on a conscious level into myself  and my thoughts. Some might argue that it hasn't helped but "Oh, well..."
Anyway, perhaps the waterfall chooses to descend, to take another direction, in order to clear the air for a greater flow.
Falling teaches us that we are human...inevitably, we fall. We are not gods, we are, at times, vulnerable human beings. Okay, I'm rambling here. lol

Anyway, I don't know why but waterfalls are such beautiful poetic forces, though they're force is downward as opposed to upwards.
They fall with grace, they can teach us to detach from sure ground and "let go" and continue on flowing.




Quote :
True - holding them for too long is just toxic. What I was basically speaking to is how hate and fear can speak to us, if we can take some moments to stand back from them, observe them non-judgmentally, within ourselves at the time. In other words, what am I really dealing with here? Is there any "real" basis for what I'm feeling and/or is something really about something else.
But emotions can be slippery slopes.


That almost sounds Buddhist.  A good practice, I suppose but I have never consciously tried it.
Yes, we have to become almost like Aeolus. But doing the above can be the difference to knowing when to restrain them and when not to.
But isn't the storm also such a wonder to behold? Perhaps it IS because we can sense the same within our own natures.



Quote :
True. What I was going for is the discipline and practice of holding back, taking a breath, getting out of our own way, quieting ego.

I do meditate.  I use the "empty-minded" method.  It helps me.

I know what you mean but that is kind of funny when you think of it. "empty mind". Can we actually have one of those?
Maybe that amounts to what I do, conclusion wise. Just simply, wherever I am, see whatever is there. here whatever is there, smell whatever is there.
Just to "be" there with all of that, a part of it but yet not so much a part of it...but not deliberately mindful of it all, if that made sense.
Just being there.
It's getting away from one's self in a way, don't you think?





Quote :
How do you go about that considering that sometimes things have a way of turning out differently than you would think they would?

What IS beyond right and wrong to YOU? Is that always the better way to go?


That is Taoist philosophy from Chuang Tzu.  Basically, the Sage does what must be done and that is all.  He does not concern him/her self with the praise or blame by others.

Yes, doing what needs be done; nothing less, nothing more.  And done with no hidden agenda.


He lives naturally according to who he is?  Could one say that a buddhist is like a stoic?




Quote :
However, there are many people who live not telling people about their fears and hatred. This only makes those fears and hatred stronger. They do it intentionally so they can justify their fears and hatred.

I do agree with you that for some, many, that is the case. But do you think that THAT is the only reason that other individuals don't talk about their fears and hatred? I can think of at least two more off the top of my head. Can you think of more?

The only thing that comes to my mind is that if they talk about them they are just reinforced.  Don't want that.

Well, the above can be true. But talking about them can also give them fresh insights into their selves? Don't you think? Talking about something and facing it can release the power of the daemon over them. It all just depends on how it's done. Ranting and raving serve no purpose.
That just makes the daemons stronger and their selves weaker.

Do you tend, on the whole, to simply let go of the negative emotions you have, without looking at them - though I kind of intuit that you don't have many negative emotions. lol



Quote :
Yeah, but big boys don't cry, you know.  

What a pity they don't. That's probably the echo of the Mom and Dad circling their minds.
I've had a few of who I would consider real men cry before me.
Nothing wrong with using that bit of anima which nature has graced you guys with. But guys have to be a bit selective in who they cry in front of it.




Quote :
The cause and effect "chain" can bring us back to our roots, to our psychological ones. It's important to see when we are being affected by something in our past which we can let go of, each time the residues of those things come upon  us. But also to remember that what is happening in the here and now might simply be what is effecting us - if any of that made sense to you. I don't always  express myself so well that people would understand.[/color]

You said that very well.  I need not add anything.

Ah, but I crave feedback. O/K...but am I?




Quote :
Yep.  We are a part of nature and mostly live in accordance with "our" nature.  When we don't there are most often unwanted consequences.

One can also say that when we "live in accordance with our natures", we can bring on unwanted consequences.
It's all about observing them, where they bring us, why and what we're dealing with, not being afraid to be open to what we see and then caressing them to sleep.


Quote :
But isn't harmony a form of balance?  I don't think that we can experience harmony without balance.

I suppose it can be viewed that way.  I just avoid speaking of balance because it is too easy to think that once we achieve balance everything will be fine.  Sure, it will be fine until the next change that effects our life.

Yes, but we can also remember that at one point, we DID achieve the balance and we can again. We're like the ocean you know.




Quote :
But for this moment, we're THERE, right?[/color]

[color=#0033ff]Point on.  We are always where we are.  Like those maps at highway rest areas.  "You are here."

hahahaha but isn't it a shame that we need a map to tell us where we are? Well, actually know. If we don't know where we are, we can't move on to where we would want to be or to a far better place that we "ought" to be.
So any kind of a map is a good thing. We need to figure out the landscape - whether it be emotional or physical.

 

___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:48 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
Sisyphus

But we can be like waterfalls. I think that, in a way, everything that we see in nature, and in the elements,  is also, or can be,  a part of who we are. We can learn about our own emotions by observing nature.

Okay. From a different perspective: Chuang Tzu says about the Sage in the state of "wu wei"; he can appear as dead ashes or spring forth with the strength of a tiger. The springing tiger would be your waterfalls, I think.

Well, your way of looking at it is another way. At one point, I was Arcturus Rising and then I became Arcturus Descending.
A descent can also be a positive. I chose that designation so that I could go more deeper, on a conscious level into myself  and my thoughts. Some might argue that it hasn't helped but "Oh, well..."

Anyway, perhaps the waterfall chooses to descend, to take another direction, in order to clear the air for a greater flow.
Falling teaches us that we are human...inevitably, we fall. We are not gods, we are, at times, vulnerable human beings. Okay, I'm rambling here. lol

Anyway, I don't know why but waterfalls are such beautiful poetic forces, though they're force is downward as opposed to upwards.
They fall with grace, they can teach us to detach from sure ground and "let go" and continue on flowing.

Okay. You are a waterfall and you are descending already. Hehehe. But yes, you have rationalized that quite well. And I would agree that we should look deeply into our self to find what really pushes our various buttons.

But isn't the storm also such a wonder to behold? Perhaps it IS because we can sense the same within our own natures.

Storms are a part of nature. Harmonizing for a new balance. Our personal storms should do the same thing.

I know what you mean but that is kind of funny when you think of it. "empty mind". Can we actually have one of those?

Maybe that amounts to what I do, conclusion wise. Just simply, wherever I am, see whatever is there. here whatever is there, smell whatever is there.

Just to "be" there with all of that, a part of it but yet not so much a part of it...but not deliberately mindful of it all, if that made sense.
Just being there.

It's getting away from one's self in a way, don't you think?

Yes, I always get the cute comments when I say I attained empty-mindedness. And yes, the state is beyond the dualistic thinking of the mind. And yes, you understand about "just being there".

He lives naturally according to who he is?  Could one say that a buddhist is like a stoic?

I suppose that could be said but that's not Taoism. We are allowed to dance and drag our tail in the mud. But yes, the Taoist live according to his/her own nature. This has brought up many arguments regarding people who are naturally evil and not walking the path of Tao.


Well, the above can be true. But talking about them can also give them fresh insights into their selves? Don't you think? Talking about something and facing it can release the power of the daemon over them. It all just depends on how it's done. Ranting and raving serve no purpose.

Some people are afraid to acknowledge their true self. They look and don't like what they see. So they stop looking, never finding the causes of their conflicts.

That just makes the daemons stronger and their selves weaker.

True but most don't understand that.

Do you tend, on the whole, to simply let go of the negative emotions you have, without looking at them - though I kind of intuit that you don't have many negative emotions. lol

I wish I could honestly say I just let them go but I can't. I release them. I'm not a nice guy when that happens. Therefore I try to avoid having any of my negative buttons pushed. But you are correct, I don't get them often any more. When younger I held them in. That didn't work well as it rarely afforded me inner peace.

What a pity they don't. That's probably the echo of the Mom and Dad circling their minds.
I've had a few of who I would consider real men cry before me.

Nothing wrong with using that bit of anima which nature has graced you guys with. But guys have to be a bit selective in who they cry in front of it.

Nicely said. I can be brought to tears from a positive emotional experience. But I don't cry over my problems. I destroy them.

Ah, but I crave feedback. O/K...but am I?

Yes, I can tell. And yes, cause and effect rule. And yes, we have new experiences all the time. Hopefully they are ones that lead us toward being a more peaceful person. But it is still worth trying to find the causes of our life's experiences.

One can also say that when we "live in accordance with our natures", we can bring on unwanted consequences.
It's all about observing them, where they bring us, why and what we're dealing with, not being afraid to be open to what we see and then caressing them to sleep.

Yep. Sometimes it is better to sit down and shut up. Our immediate environment dictates how we should conduct our self.

Yes, but we can also remember that at one point, we DID achieve the balance and we can again. We're like the ocean you know.

I wouldn't argue with that. But still. in my mind, harmonizing requires less effort than does re-attaining balance.

hahahaha but isn't it a shame that we need a map to tell us where we are? Well, actually know. If we don't know where we are, we can't move on to where we would want to be or to a far better place that we "ought" to be.

So any kind of a map is a good thing. We need to figure out the landscape - whether it be emotional or physical.

Yes, I have said many times that I view Taoism as a set of guide posts. There are no commandments. There are lots of "if you do this, that will likely happen" both on the negative side as well as the positive side.

Many of us can live a good life based solely on our instincts and intuitions. Other need some guidance. Others need strict rules.


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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:14 am

Sisyphus


Quote :
Okay.  From a different perspective:  Chuang Tzu says about the Sage in the state of "wu wei"; he can appear as dead ashes or spring forth with the strength of a tiger.  The springing tiger would be your waterfalls, I think.

But the springing tiger "rises upwards", no?  The waterfall descends. Maybe it can be compared to deep contemplation.
There is a song called "Let me Fall" the words are so beautiful and meaningful...to me.


Let me fall
Let me climb
There´s a moment when fear
And dream must collide

Someone I am
Is waiting for courage
The one I want
The one I will become
Will catch me

So let me fall
If I must fall
I won´t heed your warnings
I won´t hear them

All I ask
All I need
Let me open whichever
Door I might open

Let me fall
If I fall
Through the phoenix may
Or may not rise

I will dance so freely
Holding on to no one
You can hold me only
If you too will fall
Away from all these
Useless fears and chains

Someone I am
Is waiting…

*******************************

Perhaps this is what can be heard by the waterfalls as they allow their selves to cascade downward into the depths.

How that DOES speak to me. Perhaps when it doesn't speak to me anymore, my emotional and mental human evolution will have been complete.
Wouldn't that be a pity though. lol



Quote :
Okay.  You are a waterfall and you are descending already.  Hehehe.  But yes, you have rationalized that quite well.  And I would agree that we should look deeply into our self to find what really pushes our various buttons.

lol  This is getting kind of corny, don't you think?
Anyway, it's  not a "rationalization - it's a perspective or an intuition.  
I can say that at times I am a waterfall - I just allow the moment to take me down - don't fear the drop. It's there for a purpose.



Quote :
But isn't the storm also such a wonder to behold? Perhaps it IS because we can sense the same within our own natures.

Storms are a part of nature.  Harmonizing for a new balance.  Our personal storms should do the same thing.

They are ALSO a part of our natures.
Is that why it storms though - to harmonize the atmosphere?
Maybe more important - our individual storms are signs of what is going on within us?


Quote :
I know what you mean but that is kind of funny when you think of it. "empty mind". Can we actually have one of those?


Yes, I always get the cute comments when I say I attained empty-mindedness.  And yes, the state is beyond the dualistic thinking of the mind.  And yes, you understand about "just being there".

Well, I realize what you mean. For that moment though, it seemed strange. We can't actually empty our minds. Even an empty vessel carries air and the material with which it is made.


Quote :
He lives naturally according to who he is?  Could one say that a buddhist is like a stoic?


 I suppose that could be said but that's not Taoism.  We are allowed to dance and drag our tail in the mud.  But yes, the Taoist live according to his/her own nature.  This has brought up many arguments regarding people who are naturally evil and not walking the path of Tao.




Taoism teaches how to accept the gap of the unknown
we each feel in the empty spaces of our heart. We call that Tao.


The first line reminds me of Keat's negative capability - living with uncertainly.
The second reminds me of contemplation.


No matter how the bridge is built, it is a bridge of faith in the end that carries us across the gap and into the next day.

This all means when talking about Taoism, don’t think in terms of religion or philosophy. Instead: think in terms of what it is that you desire to become in life. Taoism teaches lifestyle.


The first reminds me of that wonderful Indiana Jones scene. Can't remember the title - where in order to get to the other side, he has to faith - he has to believe that taking that step into nothingness or "empty space - will carry him across to the other side though there is nothing to be seen, it is an intangible bridge. Every time I think of that scene, it gives me the heebee jeebies. It is such an awesome scene.

As for the second, the way to live.



Quote :
Well, the above can be true. But talking about them can also give them fresh insights into their selves? Don't you think? Talking about something and facing it can release the power of the daemon over them. It all just depends on how it's done. Ranting and raving serve no purpose.

Some people are afraid to acknowledge their true self.  They look and don't like what they see.  So they stop looking, never finding the causes of their conflicts.

...and sometimes they turn their heads and see nothing. For them, there is nothing to see.
But those daemons can be just as much of a gift as a curse. We just need to befriend them.
But I am not speaking of pure evil here.



Quote :
Do you tend, on the whole, to simply let go of the negative emotions you have, without looking at them - though I kind of intuit that you don't have many negative emotions. lol

I wish I could honestly say I just let them go but I can't.  I release them.  I'm not a nice guy when that happens.  Therefore I try to avoid having any of my negative buttons pushed.  But you are correct, I don't get them often any more.  When younger I held them in.  That didn't work well as it rarely afforded me inner peace.

True, suppression and repression are the daemons' little workshops. hahaha
That is such a process - not allowing others to push our negative buttons.
Sometimes it just comes down to becoming a nihilistic realist.



Quote :
Nicely said.  I can be brought to tears from a positive emotional experience.  But I don't cry over my problems.  I destroy them
.

But what about the situations which have no solutions?



Quote :
Ah, but I crave feedback. O/K...but am I?

Yes, I can tell.  And yes, cause and effect rule.  And yes, we have new experiences all the time.  Hopefully they are ones that lead us toward being a more peaceful person.  But it is still worth trying to find the causes of our life's experiences.

lol You can tell? How, you don't know me at all.
Well, let me qualify that. I don't always "crave" feedback but I am a social creature and I enjoy discussions and arguments (even arguments Mad )
The question is - where do we get our feedback? I can just as easily get mine from a tree or a bird or squirrel or the rain or thunder.
But I do most crave really deep conversation and when that doesn't happen, I am an island. ..though there are often times when I much prefer being the island.

Quote :
One can also say that when we "live in accordance with our natures", we can bring on unwanted consequences.
It's all about observing them, where they bring us, why and what we're dealing with, not being afraid to be open to what we see and then caressing them to sleep.

Yep.  Sometimes it is better to sit down and shut up.  Our immediate environment dictates how we should conduct our self.

"Yep" scratch Echoes from the past?
True but sometimes it is not such an easy thing to get out of our own ways. And the thing is, we can be quite perceptive and realize when we are in our own ways. I'm Irish and Italian so it makes it more difficult. hahaha - silly stereotyping.


Quote :
Yes, but we can also remember that at one point, we DID achieve the balance and we can again. We're like the ocean you know.

I wouldn't argue with that.  But still. in my mind, harmonizing requires less effort than does re-attaining balance.

Again, aren't they more or less the same? I'll have to give that more thought.



Quote :
So any kind of a map is a good thing. We need to figure out the landscape - whether it be emotional or physical.

Yes, I have said many times that I view Taoism as a set of guide posts.  There are no commandments.  There are lots of "if you do this, that will likely happen" both on the negative side as well as the positive side.

Being able to view "cause and effect". Life is like a game of chess. There are the good moves, the bad moves...


Quote :
Many of us can live a good life based solely on our instincts and intuitions.  Other need some guidance.  Others need strict rules.

I disagree with this. Intuitions can be quite faulty and instincts may lead us astray. The real name of the game is "consciousness"...clear thinking...being stoic/practical..

We all need rules or a code of ethics to live by.

 

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Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:48 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:


Okay.  From a different perspective:  Chuang Tzu says about the Sage in the state of "wu wei"; he can appear as dead ashes or spring forth with the strength of a tiger.  The springing tiger would be your waterfalls, I think.

But the springing tiger "rises upwards", no?  The waterfall descends. Maybe it can be compared to deep contemplation.
There is a song called "Let me Fall" the words are so beautiful and meaningful...to me.

Perhaps this is what can be heard by the waterfalls as they allow their selves to  cascade downward into the depths.

How that DOES speak to me.  Perhaps when it doesn't speak to me anymore, my emotional and mental human evolution will have been complete.

Wouldn't that be a pity though. lol

Or the tiger is pouncing downward upon its prey.

I'm responding in parts here as I don't want to get myself confused.

I am beginning to see a perspective of your "waterfall descending" that may be useful though. That is, we fall from our illusions and delusions of reality. When we reach bottom there is nothing left but reality.

Didn't Nietzsche say something about his down-going?

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:54 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:


Okay.  You are a waterfall and you are descending already.  Hehehe.  But yes, you have rationalized that quite well.  And I would agree that we should look deeply into our self to find what really pushes our various buttons.

lol  This is getting kind of corny, don't you think?
Anyway, it's  not a "rationalization - it's a perspective or an intuition.  
I can say that at times I am a waterfall - I just allow the moment to take me down - don't fear the drop. It's there for a purpose.

I don't speak about "purpose" very often but I do speak about cause and effect. Intuition and spontaneity are good. I try to live in those conditions most of the time. But I still think that now and then we should ask the question "Why?"

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:59 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:


But isn't the storm also such a wonder to behold? Perhaps it IS because we can sense the same within our own natures.

Storms are a part of nature.  Harmonizing for a new balance.  Our personal storms should do the same thing.

They are ALSO a part of our natures.
Is that why it storms though - to harmonize the atmosphere?
Maybe more important - our individual storms are signs of what is going on within us?

I think we have an agreement here. There are processes within the universe. These processes apply on a grand scale and also at an individual scale. Storms and fair weather. Inner conflict and being at peace.
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:05 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:


Yes, I always get the cute comments when I say I attained empty-mindedness.  And yes, the state is beyond the dualistic thinking of the mind.  And yes, you understand about "just being there".

Well, I realize what you mean. For that moment though, it seemed strange. We can't actually empty our minds. Even an empty vessel carries air and the material with which it is made.

Actually, we really can empty our mind. Awareness without thought. When our mind has found peace it rests. What remains is just "being".
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:10 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:

He lives naturally according to who he is?  Could one say that a buddhist is like a stoic?

 I suppose that could be said but that's not Taoism.  We are allowed to dance and drag our tail in the mud.  But yes, the Taoist live according to his/her own nature.  This has brought up many arguments regarding people who are naturally evil and not walking the path of Tao.


Taoism teaches how to accept the gap of the unknown
we each feel in the empty spaces of our heart. We call that Tao.


The first line reminds me of Keat's negative capability - living with uncertainly.
The second reminds me of contemplation.

Yeah, these are deeper concepts that are spoken to within most philosophies. The questions are the same, results will vary.
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:19 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:

No matter how the bridge is built, it is a bridge of faith in the end that carries us across the gap and into the next day.

This all means when talking about Taoism, don’t think in terms of religion or philosophy. Instead: think in terms of what it is that you desire to become in life. Taoism teaches lifestyle.


The first reminds me of that wonderful Indiana Jones scene. Can't remember the title - where in order to get to the other side, he has to faith - he has to believe that taking that step into nothingness or "empty space - will carry him across to the other side though there is nothing to be seen, it is an intangible bridge. Every time I think of that scene, it gives me the heebee jeebies.  It is such an awesome scene.

As for the second, the way to live.

I prefer the word "confidence" over "faith" but I agree with you. We sometime have no choice but to take that first step.
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:30 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:

Some people are afraid to acknowledge their true self.  They look and don't like what they see.  So they stop looking, never finding the causes of their conflicts.

...and sometimes they turn their heads and see nothing. For them, there is nothing to see.
But those daemons can be just as much of a gift as a curse.  We just need to befriend them.
But I am not speaking of pure evil here.

Yeah, this gets into deep stuff when a person is unable to look in there all on their own. Kinda' like dream interpretation. But still, if we know the causes of our inner conflicts there will be a good possibility of resolving them.
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:37 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:


But what about the situations which have no solutions?

Ah!, yes, those problems. We can't pretend they don't exist, can we? Best thing, I think, is to find ways to work around them. They will still be there but we will avoid the routes that lead to them. Or maybe even concede and adjust?
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:48 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:

Ah, but I crave feedback. O/K...but am I?

Yes, I can tell.  And yes, cause and effect rule.  And yes, we have new experiences all the time.  Hopefully they are ones that lead us toward being a more peaceful person.  But it is still worth trying to find the causes of our life's experiences.

lol You can tell? How, you don't know me at all.
Well, let me qualify that. I don't always "crave" feedback but I am a social creature and I enjoy discussions and arguments (even arguments Mad )
The question is - where do we get our feedback? I can just as easily get mine from a tree or a bird or squirrel or the rain or thunder.
But I do most crave really deep conversation and when that doesn't happen, I am an island. ..though there are often times when I much prefer being the island.

I didn't mean to suggest that I know you. What I meant was I understand you enjoy getting feedback. I do too because it helps me clarify my opinions and understandings.

I actually believe it is more beneficial to get feedback from someone who disagrees with us. It offers us the opportunity to view that whatever from a different perspective.

I live alone so I know how to be an island.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:00 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:

So any kind of a map is a good thing. We need to figure out the landscape - whether it be emotional or physical.

Yes, I have said many times that I view Taoism as a set of guide posts.  There are no commandments.  There are lots of "if you do this, that will likely happen" both on the negative side as well as the positive side.


Being able to view "cause and effect".  Life is like a game of chess. There are the good moves, the bad moves...


Quote :
Many of us can live a good life based solely on our instincts and intuitions.  Other need some guidance.  Others need strict rules.

I disagree with this. Intuitions can be quite faulty and instincts may lead us astray.  The real name of the game is "consciousness"...clear thinking...being stoic/practical..

We all need rules or a code of ethics to live by.

I accept your disagreement as valid. But I will add that I believe that if our root values are strong enough we will not be led astray by our instincts and intuition.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:10 am

Sisyphus



Quote :
Or the tiger is pouncing downward upon its prey.  

Wouldn't that depend on how high above his prey he is? lol



Quote :
I'm responding in parts here as I don't want to get myself confused.

I think that "piecemeal" is a good way to work through this. I was finding it a bit convoluted myself.


Quote :
I am beginning to see a perspective of your "waterfall descending" that may be useful though.  That is, we fall from our illusions and delusions of reality.  When we reach bottom there is nothing left but reality.

That's a good perspective to have. That's pretty much the message in the song I think.
I would call it being or becoming a realistic nihilist.
We are such hedonist. We put so much stock in things which really have not much meaning. Placing meaning and value in its proper place is being a realistic nihilist.



Quote :
Didn't Nietzsche say something about his down-going?

He may have said more than a few things about going down. One of them is:

I love those that know not how to live except as down-goers, for they are the over-goers.

What do you think that he meant by that?
Those who pondered and reflected on things? Those who were not afraid to look deeply into their selves - and into that abyss - to see what it shows them?
Those who were not afraid to experience the pain and loss in order to "become" more?
Would the "over-goers be the transcendent ones, those who might rise above the pettiness, those who seek to cultivate their selves, to achieve more than they even realized they could?

 

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Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:09 am

I don't consider myself a nihilist and I don't consider Nietzsche to have been one but I do understand your usage of "realistic nihilist".

Perhaps a "down-going" really is necessary before we can say we have experienced life fully.

Yes, I think Nietzsche was suggesting that we need to go to the darkest depths of our own essence. To see the truth of who/what we are.

The over-goers are those who not only stare into the abyss but they jump right in.

And those able to climb back out to face undistorted reality would be the potential superman.

I like your last two sentences. I can't answer them. I think that you can though.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:52 am

Sisyphus wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:


Okay.  You are a waterfall and you are descending already.  Hehehe.  But yes, you have rationalized that quite well.  And I would agree that we should look deeply into our self to find what really pushes our various buttons.

lol  This is getting kind of corny, don't you think?
Anyway, it's  not a "rationalization - it's a perspective or an intuition.  
I can say that at times I am a waterfall - I just allow the moment to take me down - don't fear the drop. It's there for a purpose.

I don't speak about "purpose" very often but I do speak about cause and effect.  Intuition and spontaneity are good.  I try to live in those conditions most of the time.  But I still think that now and then we should ask the question "Why?"


I suppose that I can understand your first line. Purpose IS an individual thing which we create ourselves or walk into based on our life experiences. Some will question it and some will not - why - perhaps because we want to see ourselves as self-determined entities and not puppets on a string or like the Borg collective.

So are you saying that there is a relationship between purpose and cause and effect?
Intuition and spontaneity are wonderful but again intuition can be faulty and our minds too - they may lag behind and not sense what's being shown.
I have asked the question WHY so often in my life. That makes you wonder about purpose and destiny and things like serendipity, et cetera.

 

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Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:57 am

Sisyphus wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:


But isn't the storm also such a wonder to behold? Perhaps it IS because we can sense the same within our own natures.

Storms are a part of nature.  Harmonizing for a new balance.  Our personal storms should do the same thing.

They are ALSO a part of our natures.
Is that why it storms though - to harmonize the atmosphere?
Maybe more important - our individual storms are signs of what is going on within us?

I think we have an agreement here.  There are processes within the universe.  These processes apply on a grand scale and also at an individual scale.  Storms and fair weather.  Inner conflict and being at peace.

Yes, isn't it marvelous - we ourselves are micro universes - we mimic the greater universe.
Let's not forget dark matter, black holes, gravity. We are multitudinous...lol

 

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Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:01 am

Sisyphus wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:


Yes, I always get the cute comments when I say I attained empty-mindedness.  And yes, the state is beyond the dualistic thinking of the mind.  And yes, you understand about "just being there".

Well, I realize what you mean. For that moment though, it seemed strange. We can't actually empty our minds. Even an empty vessel carries air and the material with which it is made.

Actually, we really can empty our mind.  Awareness without thought.  When our mind has found peace it rests.  What remains is just "being".

I know this. It just, for that moment, seemed to be funny and made me LOL.
It does at times though take a while to subdue that monkey mind. We have to allow it to calm down on its own and then just go swing in some other tree. lol
I think that "pure being" is awareness without thought, it's grace filled. No gravity there.



 

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Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:12 am

Sisyphus wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:

He lives naturally according to who he is?  Could one say that a buddhist is like a stoic?

 I suppose that could be said but that's not Taoism.  We are allowed to dance and drag our tail in the mud.  But yes, the Taoist live according to his/her own nature.  This has brought up many arguments regarding people who are naturally evil and not walking the path of Tao.


Taoism teaches how to accept the gap of the unknown
we each feel in the empty spaces of our heart. We call that Tao.


The first line reminds me of Keat's negative capability - living with uncertainly.
The second reminds me of contemplation.

Yeah, these are deeper concepts that are spoken to within most philosophies.  The questions are the same, results will vary.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if the questions could change?  Many of them are stale and the answers too.
But perhaps its more about finding different answers to the questions - trying to think out of the box.
Maybe only the genius is capable of that.
I really have to get that book by Nagel "The View from Nowhere". That would open up my mind for more?


“Even if we acknowledge the existence of distinct and irreducible perspectives, the wish for a unified conception of the world doesn’t go away. If we can’t achieve it in a form that eliminates individual perspectives, we may inquire to what extent it can be achieved if we admit them.”
― Thomas Nagel, The View From Nowhere


How can anyone ever get bored with ideas like this?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

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Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:14 am

Thomas Nagel is an idiot.

 

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions    Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:17 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:

I suppose that I can understand your first line. Purpose IS an individual thing which we create ourselves or walk into based on our life experiences.  Some will question it and some will not - why - perhaps because we want to see ourselves as self-determined entities and not puppets on a string or like the Borg collective.

So  are you saying that there is a relationship between purpose and cause and effect?
Intuition and spontaneity are wonderful but again intuition can be faulty and our minds too - they may lag behind and not sense what's being shown.

I have asked the question WHY so often in my life. That makes you wonder about purpose and destiny and things like serendipity, et cetera.

Yes, we each must create our own purpose because if we look for a higher power given purpose we find none.

I think I am saying more at there is no purpose other than the effects from all the causes in our life.

Yeah, you mentioned your distrust of intuition before. I trust mine in the most part.

Purpose and destiny are simply cause and effect. there is no purpose and there is no destiny as long as we have choices.
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