in group preference

Cause you had the power to.

i do what i want

Cause you have the pzzower to.

Which is a byproduct of wzzill to power.

And that's truf.

This is why will to power isn't an ultimate answer. Only the key, the gate.

truth, power (will to power), and fantasy (the fantasy image).

these three cores are each fundamental and cannot be reduced to each other.

Will to power is not power, gah...

think about it

then tell me the difference you think you see

I'm not reducing nothing. It is simply true that will to power sprang truth.

nope

Nothing, I don't think I see anything. I just see.

But I had to work fucking hard and summon a lot of fucking energy to see it.

if you think that will to power sprang truth then that is a reduction of truth to will to power.

to me, that makes no sense. truths do not exist upon any basis of power or will or willing to power, or of willing to anything else. they simply... exist.

Still, it is as if that hard work did itself and that energy summoned itself. For I did not will IT.

It is true that truth sprang from will to power. What is reduced there? For it is true.

right, that would be by definition a reduction.

A reduction to a truth. Which is truth, unreduced.

A thing can be, and at the same time, be.

Anyway, don't mean to interrupt your process.

i’ve tried to reduce them, that was the goal of my second book. it didn’t work.

facts have no typical category of existing, they are a separate category entirely outside of time. and while it is a truth (a fact) that will to power exists and is what it is, will to power is such that its derivation cannot be traced to truth for the simple reason that will to power does not give a fuck for truth and doesn’t require it. it is it’s own gestalt. like VO.

truth is simply the phenomenological category of facts as such, which are outside of time and do not require any instantiation of themselves to be. facts as such cannot be reduced to will to power, because will to power is just one more fact, albeit a more significant one than most.

Ok we're getting somewhere.

It is a fact that will to power. And it is a fact that truth, it is true. It is a fact that truth sprung from will to power, it is a fact, it is truth.

if you define what is will to power (an impulse, a tendency, a natural law, a drive, etc) and you define what truth is (facts as such) and you define what the fantasy image is (the inner subjective self-experience of desire-imaging expectation), or however you want to define them, there isn’t a way i’ve figured out how to derive one from the other. you can show that in some instance one seems to depend on the other or works with the other or can be in part explained in the terms of the other, but that’s not a derivation.

these things just are what they are. i mean ultimately everything can be “reduced to” truth even wtp and fantasy, but it isn’t truth itself that creates them. they exist as truths within truth as such but their actual reasons for being lie within themselves. for example the fantasy image is close to VO perspectivism that exists for every selfvaluing in terms of itself, you can reduce and reduce to smaller and smaller things but they are always selfvaluings and always contain some germ and seed of perspective-having. that’s “fantasy imaging”. likewise with will to power, you can broaden it as far as possible and try to universalize it but ultimately nothing causes it to exist, it is just a statement about existence directly. nothing can exist that doesn’t partake of willing to power in some regard.

and if you try to universalize wtp you start encountering errors because as VO notes things are different from each other and individuated and there is no metaphysical “wtp itself” that somehow creates individual things which individually will to power. i see wtp as a nature law, a logical one that we can understand easily enough. it is fundamental. but you would have to show me how it creates truth itself (fact-ness-as-such) in order for me to buy into the idea that truth is something “created”.

Pezer wrote:

Ok we're getting somewhere.

It is a fact that will to power. And it is a fact that truth, it is true. It is a fact that truth sprung from will to power, it is a fact, it is truth.

ok so now you have to actually explain and show how truth sprung from wtp. so far you’ve just asserted it.

i’m saying that there is no way to do that, it’s apples and oranges. truths (facts) do not exist because they were “willed”.

It would take far too fucking long and be unnecessary.

Nitzsche did it, but he was no Kant. There is no neat straight line.

The reason I can state it so bluntly and succintly is because Nietzsche already did all the hard work.

In any case, your definition above of will to power is wrong. You just don't like the original one. But it doesn't make it any less true.

See you seem to equate truth to logic, and then to fact.

it is a fact that X. and it is a fact that it is a fact that X. and it is a fact that it is a fact that it is a fact that X.

now start adding in neighboring related and encountering fscts, you get metas. then those metas also go into eternity like the X example above.

so you begin to see the problem.

truth is simply another word for reality, for whatever happens to exist and how and why that is the case. logic is separate from that.