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'Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day. But when I follow at my pleasure the serried multitude of the stars in their circular course, my feet no longer touch the earth.'
 
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Arcturus Descending
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Arcturus Descending

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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Nov 04, 2016 9:51 am

Fixed Cross


Quote :
I This is a thread for facts, Arc.

It would seem to be.

Quote :
II I can state another fact.

III Arc has not fact-checked my astrology claim.

That's your belief based on bias - not fact, Jakob. Below is a hyperlink. I have also read about astrology.

Quote :
IV Astrology is the original science.

Is religion a science, Jakob? It's based on myth and beliefs, like much religion is.
Why do you call astrology the original science? I would have thought that it would have been astronomy. I'm just not sure.


Quote :
V All hard science is derived of Astrology.
Why is it so important for you to believe that our destiny/fate has been written in the stars?
How do you prove something like astrology? Where is the evidence for it.


Quote :
VI Astrology is the only relevant science.

Really? Again, why? I think astrology is more based on myth and the universal consciousness of course.
I don't believe that any true scientist believes astrology is a science.

Quote :
VII Astrological knowledge equals power.

Sure it does, just as our belief systems are capable of making us feel strong and powerful within us.
Someone is told that this is the most favorable time to go into battle? You shall conquer.  How do you prove though that the battle was won OR lost because it was written in the stars or because of other things, like weather, geography, the condition of the warriors, being favorable or unfavorable?
Perhaps astrology gave way to astronomy, if in fact it did, so it might have had its relevancy but don't call it the most relevant science or a hard science. Facts, evidence, proof.



V
Quote :
III (therefore) Astrology can only be handled by the noble. /quote]

Just because some noblemen believed in the stars and that they, the stars, guided their way, doesn't mean that is so.
Belief can have a very strong hold on us. But the question is - is it in the stars or is it in the power of suggestion and what we want to believe?
It's something like prayer. Was it the prayer or was it the confidence and belief and that extra push which gave the person the momentum to strive and struggle for what they desired and achieved?

Anyway, your above so-called fat is only a supposition and subjective thinking. Nothing objective about it. You have to prove that too, Jakob.

Quote :
IX Disbelief in astrology is in every single case caused by the refusal to study.

I could turn that around, Jakob, and say that belief in astrology is in every single case about the refusal to step out of that comfort zone and actually think more about it. You are a great thinker but you have your biases and we have them because of something within us that is served and necessary to believe. We need to take that step further out onto that limb or either fly to the cliffs so we can see clearly what is higher and what is lower and that wider expanse.
What would you lose in re-thinking the relevancy of astrology and how truly scientific it is?

Quote :
X Every single human who has studied astrology has come to accept it as a hard science.

I don't know, Jakob. It may have some relevancy insofar as learning about humans from the distant past but a hard science?
It would seem to me that your above statement has quite the religious tone. Again, show me the money or the facts. Surprised

All that being sad, I find nothing necessarily wrong with delving into astrology if it enriches one's life. But if it rules ones life in a way that not one step is taken without believing in the influence of the stars on us (except in the ways they inspire us and enrich us) then like belief, it can have negative as much as positive consequences.
I intuit that that would not be the case with you.


http://atheism.about.com/od/philosophyofscience/tp/CriteriaScientificTheory.htm


http://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/astrology_checklist

 

___________
Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.


Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

Thomas Nagel
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Fixed Cross
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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 12:57 pm

Arc, you are behaving like a bit of an idiot.
Ive researched this for fifteen years without interruption.
You have read a hyperlink.

Please spend some years in deep research before you address me with this, as what you come up with here is insulting my intelligence.

No hard feelings but raise your standards significantly please.

First of all you need to subject yourself to a study. I perceive that youve been avoiding having your own chart read, likely because you dread whats in it somehow.  But this is the fear that stands in the way of true and moral knowledge; fear of knowing oneself.  This is precisely why astrology is unpopular with slaves. Don't side with those who keep their eyes closed so as to be able to keep yelling 'you are wrong for seeing!' Just have the courage to see yourself through the big lens.


It should have been obvious to anyone by now, but here it is again: every pattern we are able to discern outside of us, is direct manifestation of patterns inside of us. You can not look at things without looking at yourself. Observing the orbit of Saturn is simply observing a vast ring of processes inside.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 2:39 pm

This seems to be a lesson in "Never criticize someone's belief system".


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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 3:00 pm

Or in "study something before you make claims about it"

Seriously I loathe cowardice, even if it is your belief system.



It is un believable that people can be so silly as to both withhold data in their possession (birth time) and still take the position of the empiricist. HAHAHAHAHHAHAAA
Jesus I explode in contempt.

Fucking lol.

But please dont bother me with these supremely low standards.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 3:12 pm

More facts.



I just cant stand dishonesty.

I cant stand people taking it easy on themselves, and using that as a standard to criticize those who work hard.

I cant stand it when people who dont understand scientific method try to tell me about the scientific method.

I can not stand the cowardice of someone who denounces the validity of truth in order to escape looking at himself.

I can not stand the apeman who believes that what it cant understand cant exist.

I can not stand anyone who claims knowledge about something without having invested his soul into it.

I cant stand hypocrites. I cant stand those who make laziness into a virtue. I cant stand dishonesty.


 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides


Last edited by Fixed Cross on Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:21 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 3:21 pm

Dishonesty seems to be important to you. You mentioned it three times.

(but I'm not disagreeing with anything "you can't stand".)
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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 3:22 pm

Sysiphus, I am extremely disappointed in how you failed to read my post. The logic in it, about the inner and outer, is presented. You completely failed to address it, instead you insult me as if I am the one who upholds a "belief system".

What, should I demand respect for the claim that Taoism is in fact a snack-bar, because I have once passed a snackbar with a vaguely taoist logo? That is the level of what Arc brought in.
You had better rise to your true standard quickly, as I have absolutely zero respect for anyone who disregards empiricism to make claims in the name of empiricism.


Yes, dishonesty is the ugliest thing in the world.

Pale death.




 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 3:30 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Sysiphus, I am extremely disappointed in how you failed to read my post. The logic in it, about the inner and outer, is presented. You completely failed to address it, instead you insult me as if I am the one who upholds a "belief system".

What, should I demand respect for the claim that Taoism is in fact a snack-bar, because I have once passed a snackbar with a vaguely taoist logo? That is the level of what Arc brought in.
You had better rise to your true standard quickly, as I have absolutely zero respect for anyone who disregards empiricism to make claims in the name of empiricism.

Yes, dishonesty is the ugliest thing in the world.

Pale death.

My apologies. I meant no disrespect. And what I said was not an insult. I'm sorry that you took it that way.

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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 3:39 pm

Okay, thanks.

I want to make clear that it absolutely sickens me when I have spent fifteen years in the most honest and difficult research on a subject, and am then accused of "believing" by someone who has read a hyperlink.

It literally brings my stomach fluids to my mouth. I wonder if you can understand this.

I researched astrology so deeply obviously because it is very strange that it should apply.
It sickens me that there are people in my environment who would suspect lower standards of me.

It deeply sickens me to see people without experience talk down on the findings of people with experience.

I think that this ignorant arrogance is the true evil of the world.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 3:45 pm

I respect one thing above all: experience.

Ive read the charts of thousands of people, and all those to which Ive read them directly, of them except one (WWIII angry on ilp, whose chart I gave less than a minute) found the readings to be very accurate.

I have tested my convictions in all sorts of ways, such as with the following method.

I ask a person to give me several birth pace-times, of which one of them is theirs. I then decide, based on the personality before me, which chart  belongs to that person. It never failed so far.

Its just one of the thousands of ways in which astrology proves itself when it is actually being looked at, rather than over. But in a big enough pool, this is very reliable empirical proof, both of astrology and of my capacity to read a persons character by the way.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 5:06 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Okay, thanks.

I want to make clear that it absolutely sickens me when I have spent fifteen years in the most honest and difficult research on a subject, and am then accused of "believing" by someone who has read a hyperlink.

Yes, that is obvious. Again, I do not intentionally cut down who anyone lives their life. I may disagree with what they say but that would be only my understandings and opinions.

It literally brings my stomach fluids to my mouth. I wonder if you can understand this.

Yes, I can understand that. And I think you are a bit more reactive than I am.

I researched astrology so deeply obviously because it is very strange that it should apply.
It sickens me that there are people in my environment who would suspect lower standards of me.

I don't believe I said anything negative about astrology. It is not a part of my life though.

It deeply sickens me to see people without experience talk down on the findings of people with experience.

Well, I have lots of experiences but they are likely very different from yours.

I think that this ignorant arrogance is the true evil of the world.

Understanding and tolerance. And I try to keep my emotions to a minimum on the internet.

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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 5:10 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
I respect one thing above all: experience.

Ive read the charts of thousands of people, and all those to which Ive read them directly, of them except one (WWIII angry on ilp, whose chart I gave less than a minute) found the readings to be very accurate.

I have tested my convictions in all sorts of ways, such as with the following method.

I ask a person to give me several birth pace-times, of which one of them is theirs. I then decide, based on the personality before me, which chart  belongs to that person. It never failed so far.

Its just one of the thousands of ways in which astrology proves itself when it is actually being looked at, rather than over. But in a big enough pool, this is very reliable empirical proof, both of astrology and of my capacity to read a persons character by the way.

I do not question any of that. I even made friends with a Taoist Shaman a while back.

I normally try to stay out of the discussions I have no or little knowledge of the subject. If I don't know how could I even ask a valid question?

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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 7:13 pm

*Having excessive body hair is linked to a higher intellect.

*Human Bones are ounce for ounce, stronger than steel.

*People with blue eyes have a higher alcohol tolerance.

What about green eyes, any fringe benefits?

*All of the bacteria in our body collectively weighs about 4 pounds.

*Your heartbeat changes and mimics the music you listen to.

Cool.
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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 8:12 pm

Sisyphus wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
Okay, thanks.

I want to make clear that it absolutely sickens me when I have spent fifteen years in the most honest and difficult research on a subject, and am then accused of "believing" by someone who has read a hyperlink.

Yes, that is obvious.  Again, I do not intentionally cut down who anyone lives their life.  I may disagree with what they say but that would be only my understandings and opinions.

It literally brings my stomach fluids to my mouth. I wonder if you can understand this.

Yes, I can understand that.  And I think you are a bit more reactive than I am.

I researched astrology so deeply obviously because it is very strange that it should apply.
It sickens me that there are people in my environment who would suspect lower standards of me.

I don't believe I said anything negative about astrology.  It is not a part of my life though.

It deeply sickens me to see people without experience talk down on the findings of people with experience.

Well, I have lots of experiences but they are likely very different from yours.

I think that this ignorant arrogance is the true evil of the world.

Understanding and tolerance.  And I try to keep my emotions to a minimum on the internet.


Im sorry for the misunderstanding if you figured my rage was aimed at you. Your suggestion of my 'belief system' pissed me off, but I was enraged by Arcturus displayed absence of standards. I dont like to be 'tested' by someone who puts literally nothing in the scale. That can only happen on the internet, that a person actually has the attitude of being the 'tester' while bringing in absolutely zero substance.

My comments, which are surely hurtful to Arc who I had invited back here, come from the deepest loathing of the human habit of judging without experiencing. I have always been an exception to that rule, and I am very proud of looking down on such petty egoism, that thinks it can just take for itself what it has not earned, understood, loved, invested in, known.

There is perhaps nothing lower to me.

Im not talking about people, but about actions.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2016 8:26 pm

The atrocity is time and time again that the person who puts astrology in question, is never someone who has substantially investigated it.

The atrocity is that it is pure belief from which people call astrology a "belief" -


Fact: every single person who has looked into astrology seriously, beginning by reading the personal chart, has quickly been convinced that it is valid.

Fact: no single person who thinks of astrology as a mysticism, has actually looked into it.

These facts have been consistently presenting themselves. No exceptions.

 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 06, 2016 1:06 am

*The world's 10 oldest living trees are 4,841 years old. Ancient Bristlecone Pine is the oldest known non-clonal organism on Earth.

* Yesterday was Redhead Day.

Happy belated, FC.

*Redheads most commonly have brown eyes. The least common eye color: blue. Another recessive trait is that they are often left-handed.
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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 06, 2016 7:07 am

Fixed Cross wrote:


Im sorry for the misunderstanding if you figured my rage was aimed at you. Your suggestion of my 'belief system' pissed me off, but I was enraged by Arcturus displayed absence of standards. I dont like to be 'tested' by someone who puts literally nothing in the scale. That can only happen on the internet, that a person actually has the attitude of being the 'tester' while bringing in absolutely zero substance.

My comments, which are surely hurtful to Arc who I had invited back here, come from the deepest loathing of the human habit of judging without experiencing. I have always been an exception to that rule, and I am very proud of looking down on such petty egoism, that thinks it can just take for itself what it has not earned, understood, loved, invested in, known.

There is perhaps nothing lower to me.

Im not talking about people, but about actions.

No problem. I don't get insulted easily. I just like to make sure I don't wrongly insult others. We are still learning each other. We will have misunderstandings on occasion. When we do we need to seek understanding rather than becoming emotional.

I knew where your anger was but it seemed to me to be misplaced. (Not saying it wasn't justified.)

I promise to not "test" you. But I will ask for additional information on occasion so that I might better understand your perspective.

And I agree, we should always speak to what was said and not to the individual who said it. That would mess with our emotions.
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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 06, 2016 7:09 am

Fixed Cross wrote:

Fact: every single person who has looked into astrology seriously, beginning by reading the personal chart, has quickly been convinced that it is valid.

Fact: no single person who thinks of astrology as a mysticism, has actually looked into it.

These facts have been consistently presenting themselves. No exceptions.

Just as an addition to where I stand; I have not read the I-Ching either. Therefore I do not speak about it.
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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 06, 2016 7:11 am

Hi-D wrote:


*Redheads most commonly have brown eyes.

Redheads with green eyes used to drive me up the wall.
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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 06, 2016 1:06 pm

Im left handed.


 

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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 06, 2016 1:09 pm

Sisyphus wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:


Im sorry for the misunderstanding if you figured my rage was aimed at you. Your suggestion of my 'belief system' pissed me off, but I was enraged by Arcturus displayed absence of standards. I dont like to be 'tested' by someone who puts literally nothing in the scale. That can only happen on the internet, that a person actually has the attitude of being the 'tester' while bringing in absolutely zero substance.

My comments, which are surely hurtful to Arc who I had invited back here, come from the deepest loathing of the human habit of judging without experiencing. I have always been an exception to that rule, and I am very proud of looking down on such petty egoism, that thinks it can just take for itself what it has not earned, understood, loved, invested in, known.

There is perhaps nothing lower to me.

Im not talking about people, but about actions.

No problem.  I don't get insulted easily.  I just like to make sure I don't wrongly insult others.  We are still learning each other.  We will have misunderstandings on occasion.  When we do we need to seek understanding rather than becoming emotional.

I knew where your anger was but it seemed to me to be misplaced.  (Not saying it wasn't justified.)

I promise to not "test" you.  But I will ask for additional information on occasion so that I might better understand your perspective.

And I agree, we should always speak to what was said and not to the individual who said it.  That would mess with our emotions.

Cool, the bottom line is that I only like to test people where I am strong, and I only like to be tested by a person who has his feet on the ground when he comes at me.

Again, you werent the one to test me. You just positioned yourself to be struck by the lightning from the clouds Arc had caused into gathering.

I was disappointed in so many ways by that entry. The absolute absence of respect for not only the protocol of this thread, but also for the ethics that rule a philosophers life. Likely just blatant ignorance of those ethics, of the existence of philosophical discipline but she has had many years to learn the basics.

By me such an insolent presumption about my methods and integrity is received as a degradation of humanity itself. Hence, my anger, and hence why it isnt going away. If I'd forgive this absolute transgression of trust and respect without a profoundly meant apology (which I am not expecting) that would be an insult to all of Discipline.


 

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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 06, 2016 1:15 pm

It is precisely in areas that are still largely in the dark, that paths of impure discipline and integrity need to be cut off without hesitation.
Only pure discipline and integrity can map into something as omnidirectionally significant as astrology.

Value Ontology is an  instrument to attain and maintain such discipline and integrity; it is essentially a lens that focuses the gaze into one 'pixel' of existence; Always noting that 'existence' occurs as a synthesis between observer and observed as the transfigurative event of observation/valuing. There is no "neutral observation" - all observations take the outlines of the instrument used to observe, such as the objective and the brain. All knowledge is thus first of all a stack of references to instruments used in observation.

The philosopher approaches his mind as an instrument that has the duty to first observe itself before it attempts to define anything else.

 

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- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 06, 2016 7:38 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:

Cool, the bottom line is that I only like to test people where I am strong, and I only like to be tested by a person who has his feet on the ground when he comes at me.

Again, you werent the one to test me. You just positioned yourself to be struck by the lightning from the clouds Arc had caused into gathering.

I was disappointed in so many ways by that entry. The absolute absence of respect for not only the protocol of this thread, but also for the ethics that rule a philosophers life. Likely just blatant ignorance of those ethics, of the existence of philosophical discipline but she has had many years to learn the basics.

By me such an insolent presumption about my methods and integrity is received as a degradation of humanity itself. Hence, my anger, and hence why it isnt going away. If I'd forgive this absolute transgression of trust and respect without a profoundly meant apology (which I am not expecting) that would be an insult to all of Discipline.

I am at a position where I can't say much more. I don't want to step on your toes nor on Arc's toes. I haven't been here long enough to know what kind of relationship the two of you have.

But I am glad that you are reviewing what happened and why you reacted the way you did. That's all about knowing our self.

But again I will suggest that becoming emotional on an internet forum generally leads to nothing good.
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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 06, 2016 7:44 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
It is precisely in areas that are still largely in the dark, that paths of impure discipline and integrity need to be cut off without hesitation.
Only pure discipline and integrity can map into something as omnidirectionally significant as astrology.

Value Ontology is an  instrument to attain and maintain such discipline and integrity; it is essentially a lens that focuses the gaze into one 'pixel' of existence; Always noting that 'existence' occurs as a synthesis between observer and observed as the transfigurative event of observation/valuing. There is no "neutral observation" - all observations take the outlines of the instrument used to observe, such as the objective and the brain. All knowledge is thus first of all a stack of references to instruments used in observation.

The philosopher approaches his mind as an instrument that has the duty to first observe itself before it attempts to define anything else.

Yes, there should be discipline and integrity guiding us along our path of life. There are many paths; the destination, with =good fortune, is a good life.

I try to not tell anyone that they need to choose a different path. Well, that's except for telling people to not use drugs.

I do mention to people that they should examine their path to see if it is leading them to a place that is more positive than the place they were trying to escape from. I often use the phrase "Question Everything", even our own thoughts.
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WendyDarling

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List of Facts - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 1:30 am

*Women have twice as many pain receptors on their body than men. But a much higher pain tolerance.

*Russia didn’t consider beer to be alcohol until 2011. It was previously classified as a soft drink.

*Scientists claim that the higher your I.Q., the more you dream in your sleep.

*Honey is the only food that included all the substances necessary to sustain life, including enzymes, minerals, water and vitamins.

*Earth is the only planet not named after a god.

*Spiked dog collars were invented in Ancient Greece to protect dogs throats from wolves!
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PostSubject: Re: List of Facts   List of Facts - Page 2 Icon_minitime

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