The Nietzschean Cauldron

Capable wrote:

Can you even imagine what would happen to your values and meanings if you tried to stretch and attenuate them across eternity?

But I do - the self-valuing principle is my highest value and meaning! This may be why I arrived at it - to justify the entirety of eternity as my own value. And with this principle I can indeed imagine living forever and never getting bored - as change never ends. I dont live for anything anymore besides the explication of the self-valuing principle into greater differences and depths. I am a phenomenophile. Always been - that is the type of phenomenon I am. And why I consider gods and animals as real as humans, and plants and trees possibly realer - life is a maze, and knowledge is a corner.

Quote :

Why don't you show me where you think N makes any kind of claims in there espousing a desire for Heaven?

How many times you readed this book ?

Quote :

only because we came to understand that one day we will die

For you death its just a body that stopped fonctionning but there is options

Fixed Cross wrote:

Capable wrote:

Can you even imagine what would happen to your values and meanings if you tried to stretch and attenuate them across eternity?

But I do - the self-valuing principle is my highest value and meaning! This may be why I arrived at it - to justify the entirety of eternity as my own value. And with this principle I can indeed imagine living forever and never getting bored - as change never ends. I dont live for anything anymore besides the explication of the self-valuing principle into greater differences and depths. I am a phenomenophile. Always been - that is the type of phenomenon I am. And why I consider gods and animals as real as humans, and plants and trees possibly realer - life is a maze, and knowledge is a corner.

Yes, but what I mean is not the "eternity" in our thought, which is quite real and limitless and into which the highest possible values can certainly dwell, but I mean a literal "endless span of time". The philosophical reason why our minds can hold infinitely great values is because in the severe biological and psychological-subjective limits of our organic existence these values are condensed, they contract to a point. That point is a "specific existence". Values and meanings are substances like tables and chairs-- in the same way that a table cannot be stretched forever without breaking apart and losing what it is, so too must values and meanings have a definitive delimited existence, and not only this but this definitive delimited is the reason these are values and meanings at all. It's like trying to imagine going on a shopping spree for a week, sure we can imagine meaningfully doing that, but not for an entire year, not for a thousand thousand years. Infinite life would require infinite novelty, which doesn't exist, and even if it did the novelty itself would stop being novel after a while.

Living without aging is fine, but it just substitutes some problems for others. And the deeper issue is that in a philosophical sense aging isn't even biological, it is mental and emotional, "spiritual" aging of consciousness itself. I really think that this whole transhumanist idea is deeply confused about what consciousness is in so far as what it means to have conscious meaningful experiences.

Myki2 wrote:

Quote :

Why don't you show me where you think N makes any kind of claims in there espousing a desire for Heaven?

How many times you readed this book ?

Don't change the subject. And you should know that I won't respond to trolling.

Answer my question. Show me where N makes claims espousing what you think of as a transhumanist ideal of endless living. Or better yet, in addition to just trying to find quotes from what someone else said, make your own rational philosophical arguments for why those quotes are true.

Quote :

Yes, but what I mean is not the "eternity" in our thought, which is quite real and limitless and into which the highest possible values can certainly dwell, but I mean a literal "endless span of time". The philosophical reason why our minds can hold infinitely great values is because in the severe biological and psychological-subjective limits of our organic existence these values are condensed, they contract to a point. That point is a "specific existence". Values and meanings are substances like tables and chairs-- in the same way that a table cannot be stretched forever without breaking apart and losing what it is, so too must values and meanings have a definitive delimited existence, and not only this but this definitive delimited is the reason these are values and meanings at all. It's like trying to imagine going on a shopping spree for a week, sure we can imagine meaningfully doing that, but not for an entire year, not for a thousand thousand years. Infinite life would require infinite novelty, which doesn't exist, and even if it did the novelty itself would stop being novel after a while.

Living without aging is fine, but it just substitutes some problems for others. And the deeper issue is that in a philosophical sense aging isn't even biological, it is mental and emotional, "spiritual" aging of consciousness itself. I really think that this whole transhumanist idea is deeply confused about what consciousness is in so far as what it means to have conscious meaningful experiences.

Capable...it's the second time that im telling you this, and i really dont like to repeat myself, you have no idea of what is consciousness otherwise you would have a nobel prize, transhumanists want full euphoria, you are not agree ? come and get us !

You want die ? no problem, we gonna keep celebrating life, and im gonna think about you !

Quote :

Don't change the subject. And you should know that I won't respond to trolling.

Answer my question. Show me where N makes claims espousing what you think of as a transhumanist ideal of endless living. Or better yet, in addition to just trying to find quotes from what someone else said, make your own rational philosophical arguments for why those quotes are true.

You wanted this...


im gonna sleep and tomorrow, im gonna show you

Quote :

I won't respond to trolling.

Ok last time im gonna respond to you..after showing you quotes about the great awakening

I've already explained to you what consciousness is. Feel free to actually comment on what I said and make a point apropos it. Or not. I really don't care either way.

Your ideal is to have an eternal party. Basically you're a drug addict looking for the ultimate high and not realizing that it will kill you. Maybe you can salvage the body but your mind will be long gone.

Bottom line: death has no philosophical meaning. None at all. Life, so called, is either just a necessary condition for values and meanings to exist, or is just an idea and image onto which we project our own values and meanings so as to help stabilize and further them. But this second meaning of "life" is really a debasement and non-philosophical move, because it not only puts the cart before the horse as all transhumanism drug addiction does, but tries to infect meaning and value with something that doesn't even exist, "life itself". There is no life itself, there are just specific organic conscious beings that we call alive. Beyond that, we start to approach philosophy.

Quote :

I've already explained to you what consciousness is

where is your nobel prize ? im not talking to you anymore sorry

Furthermore, it isn't life that makes life meaningful, it is meaning that makes life meaningful. The question "what is the meaning of meaning" is exactly the right question.

Transhumanism on the other hand, this whole Christian Scientism attempting to build a Heaven on Earth, is the exact opposite: it isn't about making tools for humans to use, it is about making humans for tools to use.


As for why I don't have a Nobel prize, I would imagine it's because such institutions are populated with people like you.

Transhumanism 101:

Transhumanism aside, I do also mean expanse of time. The self-valuing principle is beyond time, it brings time into being, and all of time is its manifestation.

For consciousness to perpetuate itself indefinitely through time, it would have to become a 'product' of changing circumstances. I would have to manage to self-value in different terms as stars die and such - but if that were possible, why not? I dont reject it, I just dont see it as a Nietzschean concept or as a goal that I have.

Meaning - to give meaning is to love, and without that there is no Dasein, no Time, in the sense of the human, who is not an organism but a lifespan of an organism.

As for the noble prize, it may have to do with that Capables science hasnt been published. What Ive seen evoked very directly literally the thought that a noble prize would be inevitable.

But he repressed it back into the deep probably because it was too dangerous.

Nobel prize, pardon

The thing with these post Nietzschean powers that we cultivate is that they are properly powerful, that they can be employed, and that they also command that they be employed by supremely capable people.

Masters of the Earth; those who can handle our philosophy.

If such standards and objectives aren't being considered seriously on instinct, then Nietzsche is very distant. There is no meaning to Nietzsche except to replace the ambition to God with a greater ambition.

A more massive Arc.

I also have no problem with someone or something extending its lifespan, but my point is just that this isn't philosophically significant and can actually be to the detriment of philosophy, when longevity is taken as an end in itself.

It's simply impossible to imagine a human being "being conscious of" in any meaningful way for, say, a million years. We change way too much, we age spiritually way too much; trying to live forever would either dissolve our minds completely or we would simply stop being human after a while, ending up like Gollum with is precious ring.

The human mind and body work certain ways. The only reason we can imagine agelessness in terms of the body is because the body isn't "conscious", the body is sort of a non-entity. All this muscle and bone and organ systems, it's important and does indeed act as a base for consciousness yet is not itself consciousness, or conscious. It's easy to imagine a body living forever with proper genetic interventions, because precisely the meaning of "living" in terms of the body is so basic and philosophically uncomplicated. But we cannot take that standard for living which applies to the body and transpose it onto the mind, onto consciousness, because it's apples and oranges. The mind lives, ages, thrives and dies according to an entirely different standard.

I would accept the gift of ten thousand years because it would more likely allow me to travel to edges of the solar system and encounter planets. A million years - hard to imagine, on the other hand, the path from fish to man is far longer, and in the end not even that strange to me. Where it gets scary is when the Sun ends. That is a central proper, specific value from which I self-value. Life would get very lonesome without the sun, even if one finds a new one.

Hail the Sun!

I realize we will probably disagree on this "dualism" as I mentioned it.

Capable wrote:

I also have no problem with someone or something extending its lifespan, but my point is just that this isn't philosophically significant and can actually be to the detriment of philosophy, when longevity is taken as an end in itself.

It's simply impossible to imagine a human being "being conscious of" in any meaningful way for, say, a million years. We change way too much, we age spiritually way too much; trying to live forever would either dissolve our minds completely or we would simply stop being human after a while, ending up like Gollum with is precious ring.

I experience the opposite!
Philosophy in time rejuvenates me. I choose all my arts in terms of their rejuvenating potential - I

My love of animals is also part of this instinct.

Quote :

The human mind and body work certain ways. The only reason we can imagine agelessness in terms of the body is because the body isn't "conscious", the body is sort of a non-entity. All this muscle and bone and organ systems, it's important and does indeed act as a base for consciousness yet is not itself consciousness, or conscious. It's easy to imagine a body living forever with proper genetic interventions, because precisely the meaning of "living" in terms of the body is so basic and philosophically uncomplicated. But we cannot take that standard for living which applies to the body and transpose it onto the mind, onto consciousness, because it's apples and oranges. The mind lives, ages, thrives and dies according to an entirely different standard.

My view is my Eastern - the mind and body are flipsides of a coin whose flipping itself is life - if energies and elements and essences are circulated in the right ways, age doesn't really happen. We die, yes, but not by withering. The heart just suddenly stops. And I think this has to do with the Species as a whole - it is a meta-genetics, that is now coming to light to me.

What wears me out is humanity - only since I acquired the luxury of making my own days entirely, did I stop feeling like I was being worn.

And that was only last year. Now I can fully admit to being nurtured by my being more as an animal and phenomenon of mind - a god - , than a human. Which helps me finally go among humans as I please, and run into ones that I please, and who please me - this is Odin. Mastership in seeking, which requires a certain degree of how shall we put it... Sublime Thievery.

Play is eternity in a nutshell. A squirrel is eternity in a nutshell. I could live an eternity switching from being a squirrel to being a human on a park bench with a girl watching squirrels.

Some things are good enough to justify a whole eternity. But you have to find them. And I think you have to be entirely free from humanity to find them.

I have defined my own transhumanism - to transition simply beyond the 'human condition' for as Dostoyevsky had someone say: the more I love humanity as a whole, the less I find i love humans in particular. So the more I love then in particular, the less I love the species as a whole.

Well, but I never did, because I saw what kind of uncreative worms they usually are if you give them power. The Overman is thus not a difficult concept for me to love - but again this is entirely separate from eternal life.

I am a transhumankindist. The Overman is a Society. And here, wolf and child come one.

Quote :

As for why I don't have a Nobel prize, I would imagine it's because such institutions are populated with people like you.

You know what they do to people like you in some Amazonian tribes ?

Everybody take him apart, put him on the ground and ferociously tickle him until he laugh !

Quote :

Answer my question. Show me where N makes claims espousing what you think of as a transhumanist ideal of endless living.

I was about to give you his best quotes about the great awakening, so i was looking for them and then i see this :


"I do not refute ideals, I simply put gloves on before them"

 Nietzsche Ecce Homo preface 3


that all you gonna get from me until you change your behavior like i did.

and by the way scientists have gloves...