The Nietzschean Cauldron

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And I still am asking: How can one attain a will to power if there is no free will. It is a direct contradiction.

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You cannot attain a will to power if there is no free will. I can't get much clearer than that.

You don't "attain" the will to power lol you are "will to power", your will is directed to power whatever you think power is !

i cant get clearer than that to xD

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Okay, I think I got your "annotations" thing. Except that we still haven't defined if they are Nietzsche's notes or the translator's notes.

It's notes from modern philologists/researchers, i have his posthumous fragments about the will to power and eternal return in 3 vol. , he is even more direct in those....

Myki2 wrote:

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And I still am asking: How can one attain a will to power if there is no free will. It is a direct contradiction.

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You cannot attain a will to power if there is no free will. I can't get much clearer than that.

You don't "attain" the will to power lol you are "will to power", your will is directed to power whatever you think power is !

i cant get clearer than that to xD

You are still contradicting yourself.

And yes, we must develop a will to power. Or rather, re-develope it. We are actually born with it. But it is taken away from most by society's standards. Therefore it must be re-developed. And this can happen only if we have the desire (free will) to do so. This is what Nietzsche was teaching. The art must be re-developed.

Myki2 wrote:

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Okay, I think I got your "annotations" thing. Except that we still haven't defined if they are Nietzsche's notes or the translator's notes.

It's notes from modern philologists/researchers, i have his posthumous fragments about the will to power and eternal return in 3 vol. , he is even more direct in those....

Understanding has been had. I would have a problem with that because I don't want to read what others think Nietzsche was talking about. I want to know what Nietzsche was talking about.

Sisyphus wrote:

Fixed Cross wrote:

Sisyphus wrote:

I think you might find that the word "merit" is more at "taking credit" for his/her accomplishments.  (If you take no credit it can never be taken away from you.)

That makes a lot of sense then.

This is why it is virtually impossible to translate philosophy. One single unclear translation can turn the entire meaning of a text upside down. In my mind "merit" means basically "value", and of course the point of the sage is to purify value, not to eliminate it.

Nice response.  Indeed, philosophy is very difficult to translate.  

I had read a number of translations of the Tao Te Ching but it wasn't until after reading a couple translations of The Chuang Tzu that I finally felt I was beginning to grasp the concepts in the TTC.

That sounds like a pleasant road of study, truly. I have found that one can not discover the wisdom of Chinese philosophy except in the form of a very deep satisfaction of truth, and eternal balance.

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I can't remember where I read it but if I recall correctly Nietzsche supposedly made up a lot of words that didn't previously exist in order to more fully define a concept.  It's really not all that hard to do with German.  I sometimes do it myself with English.

Yes, in fact it is quite common in German (as well as Dutch) to create new words - when I was living in Vienna it just happened to me that I invented words to address my lover. The sweet aspect of German was somewhat new to me and inspired new words, compounds.

Of course Uebermensch is a word he invented. He has said here and there that part of his goal was to ennoble the German language, to write a standard work to it like Dante did with Italian.

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You are still contradicting yourself.

You sure about that ? would you bet your life on this ? just to know how sure you are. Because i'm sure i'm not.

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And yes, we must develop a will to power.

Sound's like yours is already well developped

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We are actually born with it

that's multidirectionaly true. a "will to power"(entity) is born with a "will to power"( psychological state of the entity)

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But it is taken away from most by society's standards

Yes there is a hierarchy of beings based on how powerfull someone is.

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only if we have the desire

Desire to reach more power ?

The thing that gets lost most structurally in translation of Nietzsche, is his humor.

It is rare for me to read in a work of his in German, and not laugh at his choice of words, whereas in English, it almost never occurs that he is hilarious. This tells me much, if not perhaps even most is lost in translation. Where comedy gets lost surely any light footedness is lost. And if one were to ask me to single out a single quality of Nietzsche, is his light footedness, his untroubled wit, his dancing spirit.

It likely takes German to make light out all that stuff -
and it may be the reason why on all these boards, Sauwelios and I are the only true Nietzscheans.

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lost in translation.

Gosh, i love this movie !

Many of our conversations about N transpire in the form of laughter.


Myki - whats is the movie about? I havent seen it.

Yes, I realize what it is that is present in German, but not in English, or French, or Italian: the delight in rank. The natural, unquestionable joy of discerning differences of value and worth, depth of self-valuing, in different beings.

German is exceedingly apt at putting things in stark relation to each other.

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It likely takes German to make light out all that stuff -

You are right give me a sec, ill go throw all my books and wait the deutsch qualitat

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Myki - whats is the movie about? I havent seen it.

Its a really sweet movie with Bill Murray and Scarlett Johanson, i will not spoil you :p

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only if we have the desire

i already talk about that with Capable in the beginning, my counter argument was "not desiring" mean "desiring" to not desiring

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I don't want to read what others think Nietzsche was talking about.

If i was an admin i would ban you for this blasphema, that's a quiet chocking statement xD

Don't worry Sysyphus i know exactly what you mean but you must be humblier, Mister Nietzsche is not that easy to catch

Myki2 wrote:

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And yes, we must develop a will to power.

Sound's like yours is already well developped

Yep, it truly is.

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only if we have the desire

Desire to reach more power ?

Yes. I didn't express that well but it seems you got the point. I said that because there are some people who prefer being a herd animal. A herd animal doesn't have to make many decisions - others make their decisions for them - and therefore they don't have to accept responsibility for the decisions.

Fixed Cross wrote:

The thing that gets lost most structurally in translation of Nietzsche, is his humor.

It is rare for me to read in a work of his in German, and not laugh at his choice of words, whereas in English, it almost never occurs that he is hilarious. This tells me much, if not perhaps even most is lost in translation. Where comedy gets lost surely any light footedness is lost.  And if one were to ask me to single out a single quality of Nietzsche, is his light footedness, his untroubled wit, his dancing spirit.

I never got beyond about third grade level in reading German. I think I would enjoy reading Nietzsche's original.

Myki2 wrote:

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only if we have the desire

i already talk about that with Capable in the beginning, my counter argument was "not desiring" mean "desiring" to not desiring

Yeah, "desire" has many different meanings for people. I should have used a better word.

Myki2 wrote:

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I don't want to read what others think Nietzsche was talking about.

If i was an admin i would ban you for this blasphema, that's a quiet chocking statement xD

You misread my intention. My statement was that I want to read as accurate a translation as possible from the original so that I can properly discuss what I have read and the understanding I took away from the reading. This way I can feel confident in discussing it with others.

Myki2 wrote:

Don't worry Sysyphus i know exactly what you mean but you must be humblier, Mister Nietzsche is not that easy to catch

Humility is not one of my virtues.

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My statement was that I want to read as accurate a translation as possible from the original

I understand but don't you think that over 130 years of research on Nietzsche, the translation might be at least "ok" now ? i mean come on, PhD peoples worked on this for decades....

Personnaly i know that without the annotations, i would never understood him !

On the other hand, something i would not recommand, is reading books about Nietzsche from other people !
Or listening other people explaining you Nietzsche, i would trust only myself if i was you that's for sure.

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Humility is not one of my virtues.

Me to !!! we have so much in common xD

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Yeah, "desire" has many different meanings for people. I should have used a better word.

"Selfishness" to...i hate it xD but i said it already Nietzsche ask us to redefine language !! this is our mission and it's not easy !!

I might misundersdood Nietzsche without knowing it , you just have to find arguments i can't counter, come on guys :p

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who prefer being a herd animal

i was a herd animal before reading Nietzsche and understood what a "herd animal" is trough him, i mean a human "herd animal" is not juste a simple sheep, he got real chains on him...